folks on nandrolone what are some typical protocols for TRT

[HSLD]

70mg of test might be too much. It might result in too much E2 and prolactin to feel optimal. The PA at the clinic Im with uses 140 deca and 35 test, for example. And I did my best on a nandrolone based protocol somewhere in the 40-60mg range of test, alongside 200mg of deca. U really want to start super low with the test. U want to use the minimum effective dose of test to feel and function optimally. U want to find the lowest dose of test that works for u, and get most of ur androgens from the deca. So if u want to improve things in the gym and body composition
wise, u want to increase ur nandrolone dose. The test is literally only there to give u just enough E2 to feel good, and have enough E2 for ur body to function optimally, health wise. So I would suggest starting off with a test dose around 25-30mg.

My libido was great, and erections were literally the best of my life, on a nandrolone based protocol, just fyi. Pretty much every guy I can think of that has tried a nandrolone based protocol has reported having a great libido. There’s definitely something to having a high androgen to estrogen ratio while implementing a nandrolone based protocol. And it’s really nice to be able to increase ur androgens, whenever u want, simply by increasing ur nandrolone dose, and not having to be concerned with ur E2, prolactin and/ or DHT levels increasing as well. It’s a nice luxury to be able to increase ur androgens independently of those downstream hormones, which can cause negative effects, for some men, when they get out of balance for them personally. So to be able to keep those hormones the same, while concurrently increasing ur androgen levels, is just a really nice aspect to a nandrolone based protocol, that’s just not possible when using a test based protocol

Also, I remember my penis and testicles both hanging really nicely at rest on the nandrolone based protocol. That’s something I haven’t been able to recreate on a test based protocol since. On or off HCG.

Thanks for your replies in the other thread. I'd like to continue that conversation here so as not to derail that other thread.

As someone else mentioned, some guys have odd thought patterns (jealousy, depression, etc) when adding nandrolone to a test based protocol. I've been there several times - each time I add nandrolone to my test based protocol, I feel fantastic for the first few weeks, then I notice odd thoughts starting to creep in.

Have you heard of guys who have experienced these unpleasant mental sides when using nandrolone with a test based protocol who have NOT experienced those mental sides when using a nandrolone based protocol?

 

[Sly]

You still running Deca with your Test Sly? I have it ready and waiting to start as well. Lost too much hair since starting TRT less then 12 months ago. Even a low dose I run of 100mg/week is thinning out my hair like mad so def want to reverse that as much as possible.

Yup, run it pretty much year round now at 180-200mg a week along with 200mg test. Bloods come back really good every 6mos. I donate every 2 mos and my hemo has now settled around 15 compared to 17-20 the last several years. Only sides I really get is higher estrogen and mild increase in anxiety. Without the Nandrolone, I wouldn’t be able to lift weights due to my arthritis. I’m in my 50’s now and although not as strong as my younger days, I look and feel the best I ever have.

 

[Belekas]

Yup, run it pretty much year round now at 180-200mg a week along with 200mg test. Bloods come back really good every 6mos. I donate every 2 mos and my hemo has now settled around 15 compared to 17-20 the last several years. Only sides I really get is higher estrogen and mild increase in anxiety. Without the Nandrolone, I wouldn’t be able to lift weights due to my arthritis. I’m in my 50’s now and although not as strong as my younger days, I look and feel the best I ever have.

Glad to hear Sly and absolutely awesome! Have you tried reducing the test dose while keeping the Deca dose the same? I was doing a lot of reading and a lot of men preffer how they feel and perform on a Deca based HRT instead of traditional TRT due to less sides.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks for your replies in the other thread. I'd like to continue that conversation here so as not to derail that other thread.

As someone else mentioned, some guys have odd thought patterns (jealousy, depression, etc) when adding nandrolone to a test based protocol. I've been there several times - each time I add nandrolone to my test based protocol, I feel fantastic for the first few weeks, then I notice odd thoughts starting to creep in.

Have you heard of guys who have experienced these unpleasant mental sides when using nandrolone with a test based protocol who have NOT experienced those mental sides when using a nandrolone based protocol?

Ya I’ve definitely heard this, many times. Again, this clip is from a podcast on steroids, but this guy explains his experience really well, comparing using nandrolone on top of a test based steroid cycle, vs using a nandrolone only steroid cycle, and how drastically different his experiences were. Spoiler alert, he never felt great using nandrolone on top of a test base, but feels the best he’s ever felt in his life on a nandrolone only cycle. He starts really getting into his experience with the nandrolone only cycle at 34 mins in

Funny enough, this post just popped up in my fb news feed from Taeian clark’s ******** group. A guy talking about taking 250mg of deca only and feeling great. He said he feels much better on a deca only protocol than when he was using test. Here’s a comment from that thread


“Taeian Clark thank you...you are the reason i quit trt and started with deca...deca was so much better then test”

 

[Sly]

Glad to hear Sly and absolutely awesome! Have you tried reducing the test dose while keeping the Deca dose the same? I was doing a lot of reading and a lot of men preffer how they feel and perform on a Deca based HRT instead of traditional TRT due to less sides.

Yes, I’ve tried reducing the test, but then started having a bit of that “sluggish” feeling you get when test is low. I’ll stay of the 180-200 Nandrolone/ 200 test as long as my bloods keep coming back good and I feel good.

 

[madman]

Yes, I’ve tried reducing the test, but then started having a bit of that “sluggish” feeling you get when test is low. I’ll stay of the 180-200 Nandrolone/ 200 test as long as my bloods keep coming back good and I feel good.

Did you read the title of the thread?

200 mg T + 200 mg ND has absolutely nothing to do with HRT.

You are on more androgens than anyone would ever need.

Overkill to say the least!

 

[madman]

Yes, I’ve tried reducing the test, but then started having a bit of that “sluggish” feeling you get when test is low. I’ll stay of the 180-200 Nandrolone/ 200 test as long as my bloods keep coming back good and I feel good.

Hope your not going around telling people you are on HRT!

Thats is more androgens than would ever be needed and even than most running the high-end dose TRT 200 mg/week using ND for relief/improvement of bone/joint pain would be using 100 mg/week max.

The therapeutic dose of ND for such is 50-100mg/week.

For the majority of men 200 mg T only is going to have ones FT level through the roof.

If you feel good overall, blood markers are healthy minus any sides and it works for you so be it.

Yet you need to donate every 2 months....wonder why!

Go nuts.

Just do not go around claiming let alone convince yourself such dose of androgens 400 mg/week is HRT!

Never has and never will be.

This is the wrong forum for that s**t!

 

[Sly]

Yes, I’m on HRT. I started on 100mg test 6 years ago and eventually dosed up to 200mg as that is what it took for me to feel good and all my numbers stayed in range. My Hemo was as high a 20 on 180 mg test with no nandrolone, so I’m much lower at 15 now. Do I need to donate? maybe not now, but I do it as a preventative measure and donating blood is a way for me to help others also.
As far as the nandrolone goes, I started on 80mg and the 180-200 is where I am getting the noticeable joint relief that I need.
Although all my numbers are in range, HRT is just not about numbers, it’s about treating symptoms.
This is what I need and it works for me. For those of you wanting to “define” what HRT is for others, knock yourself out. I’ll continue doing what I’m doing and being honest and let others decide what is best for them.

 

[Gman86]

Yes, I’m on HRT. I started on 100mg test 6 years ago and eventually dosed up to 200mg as that is what it took for me to feel good and all my numbers stayed in range. My Hemo was as high a 20 on 180 mg test with no nandrolone, so I’m much lower at 15 now. Do I need to donate? maybe not now, but I do it as a preventative measure and donating blood is a way for me to help others also.
As far as the nandrolone goes, I started on 80mg and the 180-200 is where I am getting the noticeable joint relief that I need.
Although all my numbers are in range, HRT is just not about numbers, it’s about treating symptoms.
This is what I need and it works for me. For those of you wanting to “define” what HRT is for others, knock yourself out. I’ll continue doing what I’m doing and being honest and let others decide what is best for them.

I’m with u man. If u feel and function great, and can keep ur health markers in a healthy range, and are happy and living life to the fullest, who cares what people want to call or define what ur doing. This forum overall is about human optimization, with a specific focus on hormone optimization. Most guys have no clue how healthy u can keep the body, even when using 300-400 total androgens per week. Yes, u need to be much more diligent with ur diet and lifestyle factors to do so at these dosages, but I’d put money on the fact that a guy using 100mg/ week, eating a poor diet, not exercising, and not optimizing all their lifestyle factors, can’t even compete with a guy using 300-400mg of total androgens per week, that is optimizing their diet, lifestyle factors, and works out with weights regularly, as far as overall health goes. But do we tell guys here that have horrible health and are treating their bodies like crap to go find another forum, since this forum is about human optimization? Obviously not. Do we judge guys here that aren’t taking care of themselves health wise? No. We allow everyone here to make their own decisions, as far as what they feel is best for them diet wise, and how they choose to live their lives overall. But if a guy decides to take more than 200mg of total androgens per week, they’re shunned and told to find another forum. It’s completely ridiculous.

Thanks so much for not being afraid to be honest about what ur doing and ur experience and what makes u happy @Sly. I personally really respect and appreciate it, and hopefully others do here as well. The balance of what makes us happy in life is going to be different for everyone. For some of us, looking a certain way physically, and performing a certain way at the gym is a big part of what makes us happy, on top of trying to be as healthy as we can. It‘s the exact same thing as guys that want to be as healthy as they can, and know that eating better would drastically increase their overall health, but as far as overall happiness goes, the balance that makes them the happiest is focusing on health in certain ways, but also getting to eat all the delicious processed foods that they want, because they personally get a ton of joy from eating those foods, whether it be alone and/ or socially. They obv know they’re sacrificing their health for happiness, to a certain degree. It’s the same thing with guys wanting to take a bit more androgens than the average guy on HRT. We know that it’s not benefiting our health to increase total androgens like this, but it overall makes us happier in life, and the trade off is worth it for us personally. I just find it annoying when people exaggerate how bad taking 300-400mg of total androgens per week is for a persons health, when they’re being very diligent with every other aspect of their health. I’d put my health, or @Sly health up against anybody that’s on 100-200mg of total androgens per week, but eating a standard American diet, any day of the week

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Yes, I’m on HRT. I started on 100mg test 6 years ago and eventually dosed up to 200mg as that is what it took for me to feel good and all my numbers stayed in range. My Hemo was as high a 20 on 180 mg test with no nandrolone, so I’m much lower at 15 now. Do I need to donate? maybe not now, but I do it as a preventative measure and donating blood is a way for me to help others also.
As far as the nandrolone goes, I started on 80mg and the 180-200 is where I am getting the noticeable joint relief that I need.
Although all my numbers are in range, HRT is just not about numbers, it’s about treating symptoms.
This is what I need and it works for me. For those of you wanting to “define” what HRT is for others, knock yourself out. I’ll continue doing what I’m doing and being honest and let others decide what is best for them.

similar boat...i have to go way above 200mg T to feel decent. and my blood markers at 210mg for total/Free T are pretty low ...
my hct goes to 19 or so as well. feeling good however. ferritin ok. may I ask how you got it down to 15?
also...any sexual issues with running deca?

 

[Sly]

I’m with u man. If u feel and function great, and can keep ur health markers in a healthy range, and are happy and living life to the fullest, who cares what people want to call or define what ur doing. This forum overall is about human optimization, with a specific focus on hormone optimization. Most guys have no clue how healthy u can keep the body, even when using 300-400 total androgens per week. Yes, u need to be much more diligent with ur diet and lifestyle factors to do so at these dosages, but I’d put money on the fact that a guy using 100mg/ week, eating a poor diet, not exercising, and not optimizing all their lifestyle factors, can’t even compete with a guy using 300-400mg of total androgens per week, that is optimizing their diet, lifestyle factors, and works out with weights regularly, as far as overall health goes. But do we tell guys here that have horrible health and are treating their bodies like crap to go find another forum, since this forum is about human optimization? Obviously not. Do we judge guys here that aren’t taking care of themselves health wise? No. We allow everyone here to make their own decisions, as far as what they feel is best for them diet wise, and how they choose to live their lives overall. But if a guy decides to take more than 200mg of total androgens per week, they’re shunned and told to find another forum. It’s completely ridiculous.

Thanks so much for not being afraid to be honest about what ur doing and ur experience and what makes u happy @Sly. I personally really respect and appreciate it, and hopefully others do here as well. The balance of what makes us happy in life is going to be different for everyone. For some of us, looking a certain way physically, and performing a certain way at the gym is a big part of what makes us happy, on top of trying to be as healthy as we can. It‘s the exact same thing as guys that want to be as healthy as they can, and know that eating better would drastically increase their overall health, but as far as overall happiness goes, the balance that makes them the happiest is focusing on health in certain ways, but also getting to eat all the delicious processed foods that they want, because they personally get a ton of joy from eating those foods, whether it be alone and/ or socially. They obv know they’re sacrificing their health for happiness, to a certain degree. It’s the same thing with guys wanting to take a bit more androgens than the average guy on HRT. We know that it’s not benefiting our health to increase total androgens like this, but it overall makes us happier in life, and the trade off is worth it for us personally. I just find it annoying when people exaggerate how bad taking a total of say 300-400mg of total androgens per week is for a persons health, when they’re being very diligent with every other aspect of their health. I’d put my health, or @Sly health up against anybody that’s on 100-200mg of total androgens per week, but eating a standard American diet, any day of the

similar boat...i have to go way above 200mg T to feel decent. and my blood markers at 210mg for total/Free T are pretty low ...
my hct goes to 19 or so as well. feeling good however. ferritin ok. may I ask how you got it down to 15?
also...any sexual issues with running deca?

Honestly, I think my body just finally adapted to the dosing. I really haven’t done too much different. No Decad@ck here, actually higher libido at the increased dosage. Usually have sex daily, 2-3/day on weekends with no performance issues.

 

[Gman86]

Honestly, I think my body just finally adapted to the dosing. I really haven’t done too much different. No Decad@ck here, actually higher libido at the increased dosage. Usually have sex daily, 2-3/day on weekends with no performance issues.

U don’t take anything to decrease E2 or prolactin, correct?

How often are u injecting both?

Also, what brands of test and deca are u using? Sorry for the questions. I’m just a very curious person by nature, can’t help it lol

 

[Sly]

U don’t take anything to decrease E2 or prolactin, correct?

How often are u injecting both?

Also, what brands of test and deca are u using? Sorry for the questions. I’m just a very curious person by nature, can’t help it lol

I’ve used to take anastrozole to lower e2, but it made my joints hurt. My doc says as long I feel fine he’s fine with the e2 being higher.
I inject both once a week. I tried splitting it to twice a week and every other day, but once a week is where I feel best.
Nandrolone is compounded usually by Empower. Test is usually Periggo or compounded if that is out of stock.
No worries in the questions, ask away lol.

 

[Gman86]

I’ve used to take anastrozole to lower e2, but it made my joints hurt. My doc says as long I feel fine he’s fine with the e2 being higher.
I inject both once a week. I tried splitting it to twice a week and every other day, but once a week is where I feel best.
Nandrolone is compounded usually by Empower. Test is usually Periggo or compounded if that is out of stock.
No worries in the questions, ask away lol.

So u feel best injecting E7D vs more frequent injections? Is it a pretty noticeable difference compared to injecting more frequently?

I’ve been experimenting with injection frequency recently. ive only ever done EOD injections, and very briefly ED injections, for the entire 10 years I’ve been on HRT. But recently I’ve heard a few guys saying they felt noticeably better injecting less frequently, so I’ve been experimenting a bit with E3D, E4D, and E5D injections

 

[Sly]

So u feel best injecting E7D vs more frequent injections? Is it a pretty noticeable difference compared to injecting more frequently?

I’ve been experimenting with injection frequency recently. ive only ever done EOD injections, and very briefly ED injections, for the entire 10 years I’ve been on HRT. But recently I’ve heard a few guys saying they felt noticeably better injecting less frequently, so I’ve been experimenting a bit with E3D, E4D, and E5D injections

Yes, noticeably better E7D versus splitting it up.

 

[madman]

Yes, I’m on HRT. I started on 100mg test 6 years ago and eventually dosed up to 200mg as that is what it took for me to feel good and all my numbers stayed in range. My Hemo was as high a 20 on 180 mg test with no nandrolone, so I’m much lower at 15 now. Do I need to donate? maybe not now, but I do it as a preventative measure and donating blood is a way for me to help others also.
As far as the nandrolone goes, I started on 80mg and the 180-200 is where I am getting the noticeable joint relief that I need.
Although all my numbers are in range, HRT is just not about numbers, it’s about treating symptoms.
This is what I need and it works for me. For those of you wanting to “define” what HRT is for others, knock yourself out. I’ll continue doing what I’m doing and being honest and let others decide what is best for them.

You are clearly confused do not get it twisted.

Hate to burst your bubble here but high-end dosed TRT 200 mg/week + 200 mg ND is not HRT!

Anyone with sense in their head knows this.

400 mg androgens per week you are kidding yourself here.

Post labs.

SHBG, trough TT/FT, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

Seeing as you are donating so frequently make sure to throw your iron/ferritin in there too!

Again a therapeutic dose of ND is 50-100 mg/week plain and simple.

If you truly need 200 mg ND just to experience relief from joint/bone pain than you need to give your head a shake and look at your training protocol.

You are 50 years old man your body is clearly beat up already!

You need to train smarter.

Many make the mistake of jumping on ND yet they continue to beat up their joints and tendons lifting heavy.

No amount of ND let alone any AAS is going to heal, prevent/minimize this.

 

[madman]

I’m with u man. If u feel and function great, and can keep ur health markers in a healthy range, and are happy and living life to the fullest, who cares what people want to call or define what ur doing. This forum overall is about human optimization, with a specific focus on hormone optimization. Most guys have no clue how healthy u can keep the body, even when using 300-400 total androgens per week. Yes, u need to be much more diligent with ur diet and lifestyle factors to do so at these dosages, but I’d put money on the fact that a guy using 100mg/ week, eating a poor diet, not exercising, and not optimizing all their lifestyle factors, can’t even compete with a guy using 300-400mg of total androgens per week, that is optimizing their diet, lifestyle factors, and works out with weights regularly, as far as overall health goes. But do we tell guys here that have horrible health and are treating their bodies like crap to go find another forum, since this forum is about human optimization? Obviously not. Do we judge guys here that aren’t taking care of themselves health wise? No. We allow everyone here to make their own decisions, as far as what they feel is best for them diet wise, and how they choose to live their lives overall. But if a guy decides to take more than 200mg of total androgens per week, they’re shunned and told to find another forum. It’s completely ridiculous.

Thanks so much for not being afraid to be honest about what ur doing and ur experience and what makes u happy @Sly. I personally really respect and appreciate it, and hopefully others do here as well. The balance of what makes us happy in life is going to be different for everyone. For some of us, looking a certain way physically, and performing a certain way at the gym is a big part of what makes us happy, on top of trying to be as healthy as we can. It‘s the exact same thing as guys that want to be as healthy as they can, and know that eating better would drastically increase their overall health, but as far as overall happiness goes, the balance that makes them the happiest is focusing on health in certain ways, but also getting to eat all the delicious processed foods that they want, because they personally get a ton of joy from eating those foods, whether it be alone and/ or socially. They obv know they’re sacrificing their health for happiness, to a certain degree. It’s the same thing with guys wanting to take a bit more androgens than the average guy on HRT. We know that it’s not benefiting our health to increase total androgens like this, but it overall makes us happier in life, and the trade off is worth it for us personally. I just find it annoying when people exaggerate how bad taking 300-400mg of total androgens per week is for a persons health, when they’re being very diligent with every other aspect of their health. I’d put my health, or @Sly health up against anybody that’s on 100-200mg of total androgens per week, but eating a standard American diet, any day of the week

Still preaching that optimization/balance bulls**t I see!

Yes its a men's health/HRT forum.

400 mg androgens /week is not HRT, never was and never will be!

Humorous that you are the same guy always bringing up nandrolone, primo, mast, oxo.

Go figure.

You clearly are confused.

Waste too much time on all those bumass forums, let alone brainwashed by these so called gurus.

Easily swayed to say the least.

It shows I told you from day one on here.

Can see right through you.

Again go push that so called optimization bulls**t some where else.

Where we at now T + ND + primo + GH and throw in a little OXO?

Where does it end.

What next tren?

Which is it now balance or optimization.....two extremes LMFAO!

 

[camygod]

Still preaching that optimization/balance bulls**t I see!

Yes its a men's health/HRT forum.

400 mg androgens /week is not HRT, never was and never will be!

Humorous that you are the same guy always bringing up nandrolone, primo, mast, oxo.

Go figure.

You clearly are confused.

Waste too much time on all those bumass forums, let alone brainwashed by these so called gurus.

Easily swayed to say the least.

It shows I told you from day one on here.

Can see right through you.

Again go push that so called optimization bulls**t some where else.

Where we at now T + ND + primo + GH and throw in a little OXO?

Where does it end.

What next tren?

Which is it now balance or optimization.....two extremes LMFAO!

These men deep down are scared of aging and want to look like try hard bodybuilders
they preach about being health. Go look at where the longest living people are and how they live their life's and what they eat and their cognitive ability even past their 90s they don't have lots of.muscle but they are lean and healthy and don't have dementia
I would rather live good into my old age than burn out at 70 if possible
Also all those hormones age your face like badly
My friend who is on high normal.trt looks awful
This isn't optimization it's just a excuse to run a cycle year around and tell your self its trt

 

[madman]

I’m with u man. If u feel and function great, and can keep ur health markers in a healthy range, and are happy and living life to the fullest, who cares what people want to call or define what ur doing. This forum overall is about human optimization, with a specific focus on hormone optimization. Most guys have no clue how healthy u can keep the body, even when using 300-400 total androgens per week. Yes, u need to be much more diligent with ur diet and lifestyle factors to do so at these dosages, but I’d put money on the fact that a guy using 100mg/ week, eating a poor diet, not exercising, and not optimizing all their lifestyle factors, can’t even compete with a guy using 300-400mg of total androgens per week, that is optimizing their diet, lifestyle factors, and works out with weights regularly, as far as overall health goes. But do we tell guys here that have horrible health and are treating their bodies like crap to go find another forum, since this forum is about human optimization? Obviously not. Do we judge guys here that aren’t taking care of themselves health wise? No. We allow everyone here to make their own decisions, as far as what they feel is best for them diet wise, and how they choose to live their lives overall. But if a guy decides to take more than 200mg of total androgens per week, they’re shunned and told to find another forum. It’s completely ridiculous.

Thanks so much for not being afraid to be honest about what ur doing and ur experience and what makes u happy @Sly. I personally really respect and appreciate it, and hopefully others do here as well. The balance of what makes us happy in life is going to be different for everyone. For some of us, looking a certain way physically, and performing a certain way at the gym is a big part of what makes us happy, on top of trying to be as healthy as we can. It‘s the exact same thing as guys that want to be as healthy as they can, and know that eating better would drastically increase their overall health, but as far as overall happiness goes, the balance that makes them the happiest is focusing on health in certain ways, but also getting to eat all the delicious processed foods that they want, because they personally get a ton of joy from eating those foods, whether it be alone and/ or socially. They obv know they’re sacrificing their health for happiness, to a certain degree. It’s the same thing with guys wanting to take a bit more androgens than the average guy on HRT. We know that it’s not benefiting our health to increase total androgens like this, but it overall makes us happier in life, and the trade off is worth it for us personally. I just find it annoying when people exaggerate how bad taking 300-400mg of total androgens per week is for a persons health, when they’re being very diligent with every other aspect of their health. I’d put my health, or @Sly health up against anybody that’s on 100-200mg of total androgens per week, but eating a standard American diet, any day of the week

My reply from post #87 clearly went over your head!

Hope your not going around telling people you are on HRT!

If you feel good overall, blood markers are healthy minus any sides and it works for you so be it.

Just do not go around claiming let alone convince yourself such dose of androgens 400 mg/week is HRT!

Never has and never will be.



No one ever told you that 400 mg T/week is a test cycle?

Most would consider 300mg T/week getting your feet wet and even than 400-600 mg T/week is where its at.

You think the results you would get from 200 mg T + 200 mg ND (400 mg androgens/week) are any different when it comes to gaining muscle/strength well beyond your natty genetic potential?

You are still banging 400 mg androgens/week and the main difference is that you will minimize the side-effects that one would be more prone to experiencing when running a higher dosed T cycle.

Again 200 mg T + 200 mg ND (400 mg androgens/week) is not HRT son!

Therapeutic dose of T is 100-200 mg T/week.

Most men can easily achieve a high/very high trough FT level on 100-150 mg T/week.

Majority of men would never need the higher-end dose of 200 mg T/week to achieve such.

Therapeutic dose of ND for relief/improvement of bone/joint pain is 50-100 mg/week.

Plain and simple!

 

[camygod]

My reply from post #87 clearly went over your head!

Hope your not going around telling people you are on HRT!

If you feel good overall, blood markers are healthy minus any sides and it works for you so be it.

Just do not go around claiming let alone convince yourself such dose of androgens 400 mg/week is HRT!

Never has and never will be.



No one ever told you that 400 mg T/week is a test cycle?

Most would consider 300mg T/week getting your feet wet and even than 400-600 mg T/week is where its at.

You think the results you would get from 200 mg T + 200 mg ND (400 mg androgens/week) are any different when it comes to gaining muscle/strength well beyond your natty genetic potential?

You are still banging 400 mg androgens/week and the main difference is that you will minimize the side-effects that one would be more prone to experiencing when running a higher dosed T cycle.

Again 200 mg T + 200mg ND (400 mg androgens/week) is not HRT son!

Therapeutic dose of T is 100-200 mg T/week.

Most men can easily achieve a high/very high trpough FT level on 100-150 mg T/week.

Majority of men would never need the higher-end dose of 200 mg T/week to achieve such.

Therapeutic dose of ND for relief/improvement of bone/joint pain is 50-100 mg/week.

Plain and simple!

My friend who is 5 foot 6 and 68kg is Brain washed to thinking anything under 200mg is too low for trt
Obviously it's the hrt clinic he goes to that tells him that
I wonder why