Low dose nandrolone with low dose testosterone

[gaz7718]

What are folks opinions on negative cardiac side effects from nandrolone? Effects on LV hypertrophy ect. I read through a rat study on another site and it concerned me. I’m not sure what the doses were or how it relates to humans. Was going to do 150-200mg nandrolone for 8-12 weeks with trt. Now I’m not so sure. What does the board have to say?

Depends on your purpose. 200mg a week is quite a hefty dose and would make it difficult for you to retain a good ratio with T if that is what you wanted to do.
I’ve noticed a material improvement in elbow joints in 5 weeks on 90mg a week and gained about 4kgs without any obvious increase in fat. I train hard and smart (mostly) so am clearly benefiting from the increase in muscle recovery and protein synthesis.
I wouldn’t see any reason to dose higher unless there was some compelling evidence of substantially more long term improvements in joints or overall well-being.

 

[Gman86]

Depends on your purpose. 200mg a week is quite a hefty dose and would make it difficult for you to retain a good ratio with T if that is what you wanted to do.
I’ve noticed a material improvement in elbow joints in 5 weeks on 90mg a week and gained about 4kgs without any obvious increase in fat. I train hard and smart (mostly) so am clearly benefiting from the increase in muscle recovery and protein synthesis.
I wouldn’t see any reason to dose higher unless there was some compelling evidence of substantially more long term improvements in joints or overall well-being.

Did you keep your testosterone dosage the same, or lower it, when you added the nandrolone? Do you mind if I ask what dose of T you’re currently taking?

 

[DS3]

To


You’re doing something drastically retarded is all i can think of.

Totally bro. Totally.

 

[SilverSurfer]

So I decided to run an additional 2 weeks @ 250 mg for a total of 12 weeks. This takes me to the end of January, and am shooting for a total lean mass gain of 20 lbs.

I will have 2,000 mgs leftover, and begin Feb 1st I want to shift over to weight loss. I have 15 lbs, maybe 18 lbs, to lose. As you may remember I lost 105 lbs of fat, and have that final bit left to lose. I usually like to lose 1 lb per week.

I would like to protect the muscle I’ve gained. What would y’all recommend I do with the leftover Deca? Run a low dose? If so, what dosage and how long? Just save it and run it again sometime in the future or if joint pain flares up?

 

[DS3]

So I decided to run an additional 2 weeks @ 250 mg for a total of 12 weeks. This takes me to the end of January, and am shooting for a total lean mass gain of 20 lbs.

I will have 2,000 mgs leftover, and begin Feb 1st I want to shift over to weight loss. I have 15 lbs, maybe 18 lbs, to lose. As you may remember I lost 105 lbs of fat, and have that final bit left to lose. I usually like to lose 1 lb per week.

I would like to protect the muscle I’ve gained. What would y’all recommend I do with the leftover Deca? Run a low dose? If so, what dosage and how long? Just save it and run it again sometime in the future or if joint pain flares up?

If you don't have any negative side effects from nandrolone such as uncontrollable hematocrit, poor lipids, high blood pressure, lower urinary tract issues, etc., and you are receiving what appears to be positive effects from it, there's no reason you couldn't run 100 mg per week long-term. At the Baylor College of Medicine, this is becoming common practice. I've asked my doctor about the cardiovascular risks of long-term nandrolone dosed at 100 mg per week and he stated that he perceives there to be no risk.

 

[apsjiml]

I haven't done single-ester Cypionate injections in years because I never felt like I metabolized it consistently. However, most of last year I was on Test Cyp/Prop blend at 50 mg EOD. The current protocol I take is 75 mg Prop EOD with 150 IU HCG EOD (so substantially more).

My labs on 50 mg Test Prop/Cyp blend:
View attachment 8946
View attachment 8947

My labs on 75 mg Test Prop EOD, along with 150 IU HCG EOD:

View attachment 8948View attachment 8949View attachment 8950

So, you feel better on the prop compared to cypionate? Do you notice other things? less water retention or anything else?

 

[DS3]

So, you feel better on the prop compared to cypionate? Do you notice other things? less water retention or anything else?

With propionate, I do hold considerably less water. Most bodybuilders claim the same thing, which why they incorporate propionate in a cutting cycle precontest. The water retention for me is likely due to decreased average E2. I have not completed around the clock assays to determine if this is quantifiably true, but my E2 symptoms have decreased significantly with prop, as well as my need for anastrozole.

I will say, however, that propionate does not get my TT levels as high as the cyp/prop blend on a mg per mg basis. My peak TT with propionate is ~1100 ng/dL at 262 mg per week (75 mg EOD), while my peak TT with cypionate/prop blend is ~1200 ng/dL at 175 mg per week (50 mg EOD). So the most likely reason I see less water and less E2 issues with propionate is the fact that my TT actually doesn't get quite as high, nor does it stay as high because it has more frequent troughs than EOD cypionate/propionate blend injections. Thus, my average E2 would be lower.

 

[gaz7718]

Did you keep your testosterone dosage the same, or lower it, when you added the nandrolone? Do you mind if I ask what dose of T you’re currently taking?

I reduced T slightly by about 20mg per week to 120mg with deca at 90mg per week. I think I could drop the T a bit more as given the muscle gain I suspect I’m taking more than I need and was above free and total T range in my last 2 blood tests but not excessively. This was before deca being added. I due a test soon at around the 6 week point of deca being added.

 

[gaz7718]

So I decided to run an additional 2 weeks @ 250 mg for a total of 12 weeks. This takes me to the end of January, and am shooting for a total lean mass gain of 20 lbs.

I will have 2,000 mgs leftover, and begin Feb 1st I want to shift over to weight loss. I have 15 lbs, maybe 18 lbs, to lose. As you may remember I lost 105 lbs of fat, and have that final bit left to lose. I usually like to lose 1 lb per week.

I would like to protect the muscle I’ve gained. What would y’all recommend I do with the leftover Deca? Run a low dose? If so, what dosage and how long? Just save it and run it again sometime in the future or if joint pain flares up?

I’m wondering whether existing TRT without deca and effective training regime wouldn’t be sufficient to retain your gains? I hope so as I’ll be in the same position several weeks from now.
If not then it would suggest the gains are super normal and therefore cannot be retained without continuing use of additional AAS, which I wouldn’t want to do, but you may be ok with that.

 

[nathan toney]

Hi guys. I appreciate all the information. Keep the questions and answers coming! So after making lots of calls I have no leads on T Propionate. I have discovered Proviron is not legal in the Unites States. I have a script for it but that is all. The Dr. said i can start the Nandrolone with T Cyp whenever but I plan to wait until at least April when my next blood work is scheduled. He said it can take up to 10 weeks to feel anything from Nandrolone Decanoate because the Decanoate ester has such a long half life. So if i start April 1st then it may start helping my aches and pains in June.

 

[gaz7718]

That’s not really true. I realise there is a placebo effect that might play a part but I’ve been curling on biceps weekly since introducing deca 5 weeks ago and I could not have got much beyond two weekly bicep curling sessions before this without my elbows seriously aching and causing discomfort. I’m not saying they are perfect now but noticeably better.

 

[nathan toney]

That is great to hear. My elbows are painful. Right golfers and tennis elbow, a chronic tear in my left anconius - its a painful little bugger. Tore it in 1997. Then again much worse in 2016. I know Nandrolone won't help all my issues. I have too many to count. Left chronic AC separation, right long head bicep at shoulder (throwing athlete in youth), left achilles, low back, and the knee surgery on the left and tendonitis on the right, and chronic high hamstring strain. I have others but they are acceptable currently. I'm covered in kinesiotape and my PT can't manage all the issues - whack-a-mole.

 

[gaz7718]

Probably worth going for a trial ASAP and seeing what improves.
I’m hoping any improvement is permanent but I haven’t had experience post deca yet to know how it will be.

 

[nathan toney]

Thanks Gaz. I am waiting for my patellar tendon surgical repair to heal and remodel a bit more before I start. Surgery was 9/12/19. I am slightly concerned that the wrong type of collagen will be deposited during the remodeling phase of healing. I'm still in the proliferative phase of healing currently. So if it takes 5 weeks to feel the benefits then maybe I will start it in May. I hear all the horror stories of re-ruptures of tendon repairs. Or other tendon ruptures. The cognitive dissonance regarding Nandrolone and my surgery is quite vexing to me. At some point I just need to pull the trigger and do it. I plan to start at 30mg Nadrolone and 60mg T Cyp per week in divided doses.

 

[Gman86]

I reduced T slightly by about 20mg per week to 120mg with deca at 90mg per week. I think I could drop the T a bit more as given the muscle gain I suspect I’m taking more than I need and was above free and total T range in my last 2 blood tests but not excessively. This was before deca being added. I due a test soon at around the 6 week point of deca being added.

Very curious to see what your labs look like. I’ve seen a couple men’s labs on test and nandrolone, and their total T actually went down considerably, by about half.

make sure you get the LC/MS/MS total and free T test now that you’re on nandrolone. The standard, non sensitive, total T test doesn’t specify between testosterone and nandrolone, and will falsely add them together.

 

[JimboTRT]

Very curious to see what your labs look like. I’ve seen a couple men’s labs on test and nandrolone, and their total T actually went down considerably, by about half.

@Gman86 Do you remember what their free T was? Did it increase / decrease?

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 Do you remember what their free T was? Did it increase / decrease?

One guy didn’t have his SHBG or free T done unfortunately. The other guy the free T was around the same level as when his total was higher, from what I remember.

 

[Paul M]

So I decided to run an additional 2 weeks @ 250 mg for a total of 12 weeks. This takes me to the end of January, and am shooting for a total lean mass gain of 20 lbs.

I will have 2,000 mgs leftover, and begin Feb 1st I want to shift over to weight loss. I have 15 lbs, maybe 18 lbs, to lose. As you may remember I lost 105 lbs of fat, and have that final bit left to lose. I usually like to lose 1 lb per week.

I would like to protect the muscle I’ve gained. What would y’all recommend I do with the leftover Deca? Run a low dose? If so, what dosage and how long? Just save it and run it again sometime in the future or if joint pain flares up?

If you stop deca altogether and just run a low dose of testosterone it is likely you will lose some gains, especially if you were pinning 250mg of deca per week which is not in keeping with TRT doses. Deca and testosterone combined is much more potent for hypertrophy than testosterone alone. I'd run a lower dose of deca, say at 80mg per week. You may not gain any more muscle or your gains will definitely slow down but you may be able to maintain what you've gained.

 

[gaz7718]

Very curious to see what your labs look like. I’ve seen a couple men’s labs on test and nandrolone, and their total T actually went down considerably, by about half.

make sure you get the LC/MS/MS total and free T test now that you’re on nandrolone. The standard, non sensitive, total T test doesn’t specify between testosterone and nandrolone, and will falsely add them together.

not sure Medichecks in the UK offer this. It’s really useful to keep with them as I have all my records on line.

 

[SilverSurfer]

If you stop deca altogether and just run a low dose of testosterone it is likely you will lose some gains, especially if you were pinning 250mg of deca per week which is not in keeping with TRT doses. Deca and testosterone combined is much more potent for hypertrophy than testosterone alone. I'd run a lower dose of deca, say at 80mg per week. You may not gain any more muscle or your gains will definitely slow down but you may be able to maintain what you've gained.

Gaining size was never a guiding reason to start it, but it has certainly been a nice boost and unexpected how much mass it has put on. I’m no hulk or anything but when the spouse commented I was looking like “a muscle stud” as I got out of bed naked, I kinda want to keep it if I can. I only care what he thinks and feels, so not looking to do anything foolhardy.