Low dose nandrolone with low dose testosterone

[nathan toney]

Questions: Many people talk about the "joint pain" benefits of Nandrolone. I don't specifically have pain in structures inside my joint capsules per say (such as cartilage). I experience tendon insertion pain and ligament pain.
1) Does Nandrolone only help with intra-articular pains or can it help connective tissue pain as well?
2) I also get muscle strains very easily - I'm hopeful Nandrolone helps with that as well.
3) Can poor nitrogen retention cause a propensity for muscle and tendon weakness?
By the way I have been getting closer to a carnivore diet but still have a ways to go.

 

[nathan toney]

More questions:
1) What specific side effects should I be mostly paying attention to with Nandrolone that would necessitate discontinuation (or are these side effects manageable)?
2) I became a little concerned when I read that one of you experienced a significant drop in total testosterone when adding in Nandrolone - was there a negative symptomatic response to this drop in total t (I saw that the free t did not change much)?
3) Is it possible that adding 30mg/wk Nandrolone with 60mg t cyp could help other aspects of my HRT journey or is it more likely to cause more challenging side effect management?
4) After doing more research about my tendon repair surgery, I realize the surgery does not "produce new tendon" it just binds the tendon to the patella to create a large and hopefully strong scar. So I may start my trial of Nandrolone in April.

 

[nathan toney]

Another question:
1) how many weeks should I be taking Nandrolone Decanoate before getting my blood test? I know that T cyp is approximately 5-6 weeks minimum based on half life of the cypionate ester. As the Decanoate ester has a longer half life, should it be closer to 9-10 weeks?

 

[Gman86]

Another question:
1) how many weeks should I be taking Nandrolone Decanoate before getting my blood test? I know that T cyp is approximately 5-6 weeks minimum based on half life of the cypionate ester. As the Decanoate ester has a longer half life, should it be closer to 9-10 weeks?

I can answer this one. Yes, it takes 5 half lives to reach steady state, so with deca it would roughly take around 9-10 weeks to reach steady state

 

[nathan toney]

Thanks Gman

 

[JimboTRT]

Have you started Nandrolone yet @Gman86? I have my follow up consult in a few weeks and hopefully starting.

 

[Gman86]

Have you started Nandrolone yet @Gman86? I have my follow up consult in a few weeks and hopefully starting.

Hey what’s up man. Thanks for the kind words in the other thread btw. Don’t let those guys get to u. U had every right to do whatever u wanted with that private message info. Those guys just want to look for problems and start drama instead of focusing on the goal of the forum, which is to use our knowledge and experience to help others.

But anyways, no haven’t talked to nurse Jill at Defy about it yet. Still conducting a little experiment between compounded and pharma grade test. Currently on empowers enanthate at 175mg/ week. Almost done the 5ml bottle, and will be getting labs done soon. Then will be switching to pharma grade enanthate, at the same 175mg/ week, then get labs done in another 5-6 weeks, to see if there’s much difference in labs, and/ or subjective feelings with mood, energy, sleep, sexual function, etc.

After I run those second set of labs while on pharma grade enanthate, I will be talking to nurse Jill about adding in some nandrolone.

Are you with Defy?

 

[JimboTRT]

Hey what’s up man. Thanks for the kind words in the other thread btw. Don’t let those guys get to u. U had every right to do whatever u wanted with that private message info. Those guys just want to look for problems and start drama instead of focusing on the goal of the forum, which is to use our knowledge and experience to help others.

But anyways, no haven’t talked to nurse Jill at Defy about it yet. Still conducting a little experiment between compounded and pharma grade test. Currently on empowers enanthate at 175mg/ week. Almost done the 5ml bottle, and will be getting labs done soon. Then will be switching to pharma grade enanthate, at the same 175mg/ week, then get labs done in another 5-6 weeks, to see if there’s much difference in labs, and/ or subjective feelings with mood, energy, sleep, sexual function, etc.

After I run those second set of labs while on pharma grade enanthate, I will be talking to nurse Jill about adding in some nandrolone.

Are you with Defy?

Yes, I'm with Defy and have a follow up consult soon to discuss adding Nandrolone. I'll keep you posted.

As for the other thread, my posts were removed which I find very disconcerting. I'm just surprised this forum ( @Nelson Vergel ) would censor someone trying to defend and encourage common decency. It truly is mind-boggling. So no, I'm not discouraged at all -just disappointed considering my financial support of both Defy and Discount Labs.

I look forward to hearing about your Nandrolone experiment.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Hey what’s up man. Thanks for the kind words in the other thread btw. Don’t let those guys get to u. U had every right to do whatever u wanted with that private message info. Those guys just want to look for problems and start drama instead of focusing on the goal of the forum, which is to use our knowledge and experience to help others.

But anyways, no haven’t talked to nurse Jill at Defy about it yet. Still conducting a little experiment between compounded and pharma grade test. Currently on empowers enanthate at 175mg/ week. Almost done the 5ml bottle, and will be getting labs done soon. Then will be switching to pharma grade enanthate, at the same 175mg/ week, then get labs done in another 5-6 weeks, to see if there’s much difference in labs, and/ or subjective feelings with mood, energy, sleep, sexual function, etc.

After I run those second set of labs while on pharma grade enanthate, I will be talking to nurse Jill about adding in some nandrolone.

Are you with Defy?

Are you looking for potency differences? I have seen some sterility/stability reports from Empower and the samples of their T actually increase in potency over the testing period.

 

[Gman86]

Are you looking for potency differences? I have seen some sterility/stability reports from Empower and the samples of their T actually increase in potency over the testing period.

Not so much looking for “issues”, as empowers testosterone has consistently given me pretty great numbers. There’s no doubt that it’s potent. I’m just curious if there’s a difference in labs between empowers compounded and pharma grade, and if there is, I’m curious about the degree of difference. I wouldn’t be surprised if empower’s test is more potent tbh. I’m actually more curious to see if I notice any subjective differences, than lab differences, though. I’ve seen quite of few men report over the years that they felt considerably better on pharma test. It’s enough reports to make me curious, and to want to find out for myself if I notice any differences. I talked to a guy recently about pharma grade test, and this was what he wrote, which made me even more tempted to do this little experiment.

“I have a prescription but only got the compounded from empower so far. I got the Bayer before I had a prescription but I'm glad I don't have to get it illegally anymore. My friend who gave me the Pfizer is a pro athlete and his parents are both chemists for pharmaceutical companies and he told me they said to never ever take a generic of any drug for any reason, they said the smallest change in the excipients, or the way they synthesize the raws, can drastically effect side effects and efficacy. My friend also told me from his anecdotal experience that he felt great on Pfizer and always had issues on everything else he tried.
I checked with defy and they said they have Pfizer, sun pharma, and another I haven't heard of. So I think I'll do the Pfizer again.“

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Not so much looking for “issues”, as empowers testosterone has consistently given me pretty great numbers. There’s no doubt that it’s potent. I’m just curious if there’s a difference in labs between empowers compounded and pharma grade, and if there is, I’m curious about the degree of difference. I wouldn’t be surprised if empower’s test is more potent tbh. I’m actually more curious to see if I notice any subjective differences, than lab differences, though. I’ve seen quite of few men report over the years that they felt considerably better on pharma test. It’s enough reports to make me curious, and to want to find out for myself if I notice any differences. I talked to a guy recently about pharma grade test, and this was what he wrote, which made me even more tempted to do this little experiment.

“I have a prescription but only got the compounded from empower so far. I got the Bayer before I had a prescription but I'm glad I don't have to get it illegally anymore. My friend who gave me the Pfizer is a pro athlete and his parents are both chemists for pharmaceutical companies and he told me they said to never ever take a generic of any drug for any reason, they said the smallest change in the excipients, or the way they synthesize the raws, can drastically effect side effects and efficacy. My friend also told me from his anecdotal experience that he felt great on Pfizer and always had issues on everything else he tried.
I checked with defy and they said they have Pfizer, sun pharma, and another I haven't heard of. So I think I'll do the Pfizer again.“

If it were from Bob's' Compounding Shack, I would certainly agree. There is a psychological phenomenon (the name escapes me) when it comes to brand name vs generic perceptions. Basically people are given 2 of the same brand and told one is generic and one is not and not only do they inconsistently choose the "generic" (there isn't one) but they swear one is better than the other. I have heard guys say that they can feel quality T the moment the needle breaks the skin. You just can't convince those people.

There are differences between compounded vs pharma and that is because of the essential drug copy laws. There have to be differences. Carrier oils and fillera and preservative differences mostly. Same with generic copies. Except for possible allergies in very small percentages of the population, there is no practical difference in effectiveness. Probably the biggest area where you will see this is in thyroid medications because many are sensitive to them.

As far as bane-brand vs using a generic. I can tell you you at least in Empower's case that they get the same chemicals from the same places that the big pharma companies do. Same Sildenafil from the same source as Pfizer. There are only a few approved suppliers that compounders can legally obtain materials from. But people will swear they just feel one more. That's gotta be exhausting.

I used to measure and compare things, but our bodies are so different from result to result even a week apart for reasons that we sometimes don't understand that it's very hard to meaningfully compare if you want truly apples to apples. Crazy things happen to our hormones because of life. Biology is sometimes random.

I'm not discouraging you from seeking out what you are looking for, I am just saying that there is a lot of psychology that we are all fed which makes us believe something different from reality. The mainstream healthcare system as a whole is an example that I think we can all relate to here. Many swear by it and would not ever trust an alternative progressive care model - to their detriment unfortunately.

 

[Gman86]

If it were from Bob's' Compounding Shack, I would certainly agree. There is a psychological phenomenon (the name escapes me) when it comes to brand name vs generic perceptions. Basically people are given 2 of the same brand and told one is generic and one is not and not only do they inconsistently choose the "generic" (there isn't one) but they swear one is better than the other. I have heard guys say that they can feel quality T the moment the needle breaks the skin. You just can't convince those people.

There are differences between compounded vs pharma and that is because of the essential drug copy laws. There have to be differences. Carrier oils and fillera and preservative differences mostly. Same with generic copies. Except for possible allergies in very small percentages of the population, there is no practical difference in effectiveness. Probably the biggest area where you will see this is in thyroid medications because many are sensitive to them.

As far as bane-brand vs using a generic. I can tell you you at least in Empower's case that they get the same chemicals from the same places that the big pharma companies do. Same Sildenafil from the same source as Pfizer. There are only a few approved suppliers that compounders can legally obtain materials from. But people will swear they just feel one more. That's gotta be exhausting.

I used to measure and compare things, but our bodies are so different from result to result even a week apart for reasons that we sometimes don't understand that it's very hard to meaningfully compare if you want truly apples to apples. Crazy things happen to our hormones because of life. Biology is sometimes random.

I'm not discouraging you from seeking out what you are looking for, I am just saying that there is a lot of psychology that we are all fed which makes us believe something different from reality. The mainstream healthcare system as a whole is an example that I think we can all relate to here. Many swear by it and would not ever trust an alternative progressive care model - to their detriment unfortunately.

Im just the type that has to check something out for myself, see if I notice any differences, good or bad, and move on. I’d rather just find out, instead of wondering, and then move past it.

Just like with the cream. I had to know how it felt. I couldn’t just keep reading posts about people feeling amazing on it, and not try it for myself. It was a great experiment. I was only on it for 2 months, but I probably felt the best I ever have while on HRT, and have been on one form or another of HRT for 5+ years. The only downside was that my libido was a little down compared to injections. But it probably would of improved if I stayed on it. I only got off of it because I had a baby a week ago, and I was applying a few clicks to my forearms, and didn’t want to risk transference. I also am not sure how I feel about having a DHT of 311. Not sure if there’s enough research yet to tell me it’s safe. I will most likely return to the cream at some point in the future. But bottom line, this is just how I am. I’m way too curious to not try out things for myself lol

 

[andrepohlann]

Forget nandrolone, after all its know to cause the dreaded Deca dick.

Low does Masteron is unquestionably the way to go for E2 management, to free free test and for just a bit of attitude. I struggled with TRT until I added 50mg weekly of masteron. AI's are garbage and cause more problems than they're worth.
For me 96 mg test and 40mgs of masteron puts me in my sweet spot and bloods are great

Thank me later

What do you mean by bloods are great? Is it Mast E, what is your injection intervall?

 

[Cataceous]

What do you mean by bloods are great? Is it Mast E, what is your injection intervall?

Masteron, aka drostanolone, is interesting, but at these doses there must be questions about long-term safety. Although adding drostanolone at half the rate of testosterone doesn't seem large, if it is equivalent to DHT then assume that it's like having DHT at several times the top of the normal range. This is the reason why we question protocols involving high doses of scrotal testosterone: the early results seem good in many cases, but what happens in the long run?

 

[andrepohlann]

Masteron, aka drostanolone, is interesting, but at these doses there must be questions about long-term safety. Although adding drostanolone at half the rate of testosterone doesn't seem large, if it is equivalent to DHT then assume that it's like having DHT at several times the top of the normal range. This is the reason why we question protocols involving high doses of scrotal testosterone: the early results seem good in many cases, but what happens in the long run?

Agree. DHT is a natural hormone. But you are right, it is way overdosed and nobody knows what this dosing causes longterm.
Apply the same logic to Nandrolone. It is also part of natural hormones. Overdosed a thousend times or so. Nelson is fine with it.
By the way who do you mean when you write "we"?

 

[Cataceous]

... By the way who do you mean when you write "we"?

Alluding to some of the threads in which high-dose scrotal testosterone was discussed, where a number of us expressed concerns about the long-term effects of the resulting high levels of various hormones, including DHT.

 

[andrepohlann]

I see. Thanks

 

[Paul M]

not sure Medichecks in the UK offer this. It’s really useful to keep with them as I have all my records on line.

I'm also with MediChecks and they don't use this type of test.

 

[Gman86]

Masteron, aka drostanolone, is interesting, but at these doses there must be questions about long-term safety. Although adding drostanolone at half the rate of testosterone doesn't seem large, if it is equivalent to DHT then assume that it's like having DHT at several times the top of the normal range. This is the reason why we question protocols involving high doses of scrotal testosterone: the early results seem good in many cases, but what happens in the long run?

Does DHT derivatives increase serum DHT levels? Has anyone verified this with before and after blood tests?

 

[Cataceous]

Does DHT derivatives increase serum DHT levels? Has anyone verified this with before and after blood tests?

I don't think these DHT-based steroids actually convert to DHT. I've been wondering which DHT tests, if any, would cross-detect these substances. It seems possible that immunoassay tests would, but probably not mass spectrometry.