Low dose nandrolone with low dose testosterone

[apsjiml]

I find that I feel the same as you are describing. The only reason I able to maintain that 'good' feeling the majority of the time now is because (1) I realized that for me, EOD propionate injections help me manage E2 the best, and gives me the best overall feeling (2) Incorporating low-dose HCG after years of staying away from it. HCG has really played a significant role in helping me maintain the good mood, libido, and energy that you feel at the beginning of TRT. Without it, I feel pretty terrible. The way you talk about HCG and very extremely avoidant of it because of E2 problems was where I was 12 months ago. After modifying my protocol (EOD Prop) and adding low dose HCG back in (150 IU EOD) everything is significantly better.

So, dosing the every other day prop dosages (what is the dosage) and how did that compare to Cypionate injections in terms of estrogen, shbg, testosterone levels etc? Very interesting

 

[apsjiml]

Forget nandrolone, after all its know to cause the dreaded Deca dick.

Low does Masteron is unquestionably the way to go for E2 management, to free free test and for just a bit of attitude. I struggled with TRT until I added 50mg weekly of masteron. AI's are garbage and cause more problems than they're worth.
For me 96 mg test and 40mgs of masteron puts me in my sweet spot and bloods are great

Thank me later

curious how adding in the Masterone at a low dose changed levels? shbg? testosterone free , estradiol etc? Huge impact?

 

[Gman86]

Forget nandrolone, after all its know to cause the dreaded Deca dick.

Low does Masteron is unquestionably the way to go for E2 management, to free free test and for just a bit of attitude. I struggled with TRT until I added 50mg weekly of masteron. AI's are garbage and cause more problems than they're worth.
For me 96 mg test and 40mgs of masteron puts me in my sweet spot and bloods are great

Thank me later

Is masteron legal to prescribe in the u.s.?

 

[DS3]

Did you ever have prolactin checked while on nandrolone without caber?

I did. So here is what's interesting:

Labs from 11/16/18:

Procotol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, no HCG.

Labs from 4/1/19:

Protocol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, 100 mg Nandrolone, 150 units HCG 2x per week.

(Only changes to protocol are highlighted in black).

So the interesting thing is how drastically my Total T dropped with the addition of nandrolone and HCG. This is not the only time that I have tested this and it has come back similar in other assessments. Prolactin actually decreased slightly during nandrolone therapy with no caber. Estrogen increased somewhat, but I feel best around 40 PG/ML. Unfortunately, this second test did not include an SHBG measurement of Free T, but this drastic of a change in Total T stumped both myself and my doctor.

Only answer I have been able to generate is possible competitive binding at the androgen receptor resulting in a decreased amount of exogenous T that is actually attaching to the receptor, but I could be wrong.

 

[DS3]

Forget nandrolone, after all its know to cause the dreaded Deca dick.

Low does Masteron is unquestionably the way to go for E2 management, to free free test and for just a bit of attitude. I struggled with TRT until I added 50mg weekly of masteron. AI's are garbage and cause more problems than they're worth.
For me 96 mg test and 40mgs of masteron puts me in my sweet spot and bloods are great

Thank me later

I don't disagree with this statement at all. Masteron definitely does decrease E2 problems and is, for me and many others who have tried it, a much better route than AIs. I don't use it anymore, though, because UGLs sketch me out.

 

[DS3]

I did. So here is what's interesting:

Labs from 11/16/18:

Procotol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, no HCG.
View attachment 8940
View attachment 8941
View attachment 8942

Labs from 4/1/19:

Protocol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, 100 mg Nandrolone, 150 units HCG 2x per week.

(Only changes to protocol are highlighted in black).

View attachment 8944
View attachment 8943
View attachment 8945

So the interesting thing is how drastically my Total T dropped with the addition of nandrolone and HCG. This is not the only time that I have tested this and it has come back similar in other assessments. Prolactin actually decreased slightly during nandrolone therapy with no caber. Estrogen increased somewhat, but I feel best around 40 PG/ML. Unfortunately, this second test did not include an SHBG measurement of Free T, but this drastic of a change in Total T stumped both myself and my doctor.

Only answer I have been able to generate is possible competitive binding at the androgen receptor resulting in a decreased amount of exogenous T that is actually attaching to the receptor, but I could be wrong.

**SHBG measurement or Free T. Also, these tests were both taken 24 hours after the Test/Prop blend injection.

 

[DS3]

curious how adding in the Masterone at a low dose changed levels? shbg? testosterone free , estradiol etc? Huge impact?

Is masteron legal to prescribe in the u.s.?

Drugs@FDA: FDA-Approved Drugs

I can't find it on the list of FDA approved drugs. I know that no manufacturer is actively producing Masteron in the U.S.

 

[DS3]

So, dosing the every other day prop dosages (what is the dosage) and how did that compare to Cypionate injections in terms of estrogen, shbg, testosterone levels etc? Very interesting

I haven't done single-ester Cypionate injections in years because I never felt like I metabolized it consistently. However, most of last year I was on Test Cyp/Prop blend at 50 mg EOD. The current protocol I take is 75 mg Prop EOD with 150 IU HCG EOD (so substantially more).

My labs on 50 mg Test Prop/Cyp blend:

My labs on 75 mg Test Prop EOD, along with 150 IU HCG EOD:

 

[Gman86]

I did. So here is what's interesting:

Labs from 11/16/18:

Procotol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, no HCG.
View attachment 8940
View attachment 8941
View attachment 8942

Labs from 4/1/19:

Protocol= 50 mg EOD Test Cyp/Prop blend, .125 mg Adex 1x per week, 100 mg Nandrolone, 150 units HCG 2x per week.

(Only changes to protocol are highlighted in black).

View attachment 8944
View attachment 8943
View attachment 8945

So the interesting thing is how drastically my Total T dropped with the addition of nandrolone and HCG. This is not the only time that I have tested this and it has come back similar in other assessments. Prolactin actually decreased slightly during nandrolone therapy with no caber. Estrogen increased somewhat, but I feel best around 40 PG/ML. Unfortunately, this second test did not include an SHBG measurement of Free T, but this drastic of a change in Total T stumped both myself and my doctor.

Only answer I have been able to generate is possible competitive binding at the androgen receptor resulting in a decreased amount of exogenous T that is actually attaching to the receptor, but I could be wrong.

what in the world?? I don’t see how competition at the receptor would have any influence on testosterone blood levels. This makes no sense to me why your levels dropped like this.

 

[DS3]

what in the world?? I don’t see how competition at the receptor would have any influence on testosterone blood levels. This makes no sense to me why your levels dropped like this.

Absolutely no clue. I have had similarly odd test results while using EOD Test Cyp/Prop injections without HCG, then adding in HCG @ 150 units 2x weekly. My Total T went from approx 1200 ng/dL without HCG to 800 ng/dL. Same T dosing and same testing timing.

I may be an oddball, or there may be some logical explanation that I am blatantly missing. I really don't know.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Forget nandrolone, after all its know to cause the dreaded Deca dick.

Low does Masteron is unquestionably the way to go for E2 management, to free free test and for just a bit of attitude. I struggled with TRT until I added 50mg weekly of masteron. AI's are garbage and cause more problems than they're worth.
For me 96 mg test and 40mgs of masteron puts me in my sweet spot and bloods are great

Thank me later

"Deca dick" only happens when you don't balance Nandrolone with testosterone. Verbally speaking, bodybuilders don't take enough T or they take no T at all and that causes oeoblems. Dosed correctly, an ncrease is likely.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

what in the world?? I don’t see how competition at the receptor would have any influence on testosterone blood levels. This makes no sense to me why your levels dropped like this.

Testosterone can't bind to the AR because Nandrolone has around a 10x stronger affinity. Plus Nandrolone like every other androgen lowers SHBG. And a lot of T is going to go unused and be gone. I've seen the same thing in myself with Oxandrolone. Total T goes from 1100 to 650 but Free T remains high (because of the reduced SHBG) and I still felt incredible.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

So no depression and/ or memory issues while using the nandrolone?

I know you don’t like sharing dosages that you’re on, but just curious what Testosterone to nandrolone ratio you’re currently using? You’re using enanthate and cream correct?

If you don’t want to share any dosages, can I get your thoughts on what you think would be an ideal ratio of testosterone to nandrolone? I will be starting nandrolone soon, and am still trying to figure out a good ratio that works for most men. I was thinking a 2:1 ratio, using 150mg of test/ week, and 75mg of nandrolone/ week.

No depression or memory problems. Never heard of Nandrolone causing those. I'm not sure how that would be possible.

It depends on how much cream is absorbed I suppose, but I will guess about a 2.5:1 ratio of T to Nandrolone. I'm a little different since I have some DHT issues though. I believe the rule of thumb is 2:1 T to Nandrolone.

 

[DS3]

No depression or memory problems. Never heard of Nandrolone causing those. I'm not sure how that would be possible.

It depends on how much cream is absorbed I suppose, but I will guess about a 2.5:1 ratio of T to Nandrolone. I'm a little different since I have some DHT issues though. I believe the rule of thumb is 2:1 T to Nandrolone.

You have heard of it now because depression and memory problems happen in me with nandrolone, with no major increases in estrogen or prolactin. Again, this is a neuroscience issue (nandrolone's effect on neurotransmitters) as opposed to a hormonal imbalance.

I have spoken with other men who claim the same side effects with nandrolone. We do not represent the majority, but we do exist.

 

[DS3]

Testosterone can't bind to the AR because Nandrolone has around a 10x stronger affinity. Plus Nandrolone like every other androgen lowers SHBG. And a lot of T is going to go unused and be gone. I've seen the same thing in myself with Oxandrolone. Total T goes from 1100 to 650 but Free T remains high (because of the reduced SHBG) and I still felt incredible.

Good to hear this. I thought this was likely the cause of the lower Total T. Unfortunately I did not have a free T test done during this assessment so I can't speak for what my free T was. However, while taking nandrolone my libido is pretty severely diminished. That may be evidence that my free T is also lower during nandrolone therapy. However, I would obviously need assessments to show that.

 

[StillPushin]

What are folks opinions on negative cardiac side effects from nandrolone? Effects on LV hypertrophy ect. I read through a rat study on another site and it concerned me. I’m not sure what the doses were or how it relates to humans. Was going to do 150-200mg nandrolone for 8-12 weeks with trt. Now I’m not so sure. What does the board have to say?

 

[SilverSurfer]

What are folks opinions on negative cardiac side effects from nandrolone? Effects on LV hypertrophy ect. I read through a rat study on another site and it concerned me. I’m not sure what the doses were or how it relates to humans. Was going to do 150-200mg nandrolone for 8-12 weeks with trt. Now I’m not so sure. What does the board have to say?

Before I started my 250 mg per week trial I found this thread helpful.... Left Ventricle Hypertrophy and Nandrolone ( Decadurabolin )

 

[Gman86]

Good to hear this. I thought this was likely the cause of the lower Total T. Unfortunately I did not have a free T test done during this assessment so I can't speak for what my free T was. However, while taking nandrolone my libido is pretty severely diminished. That may be evidence that my free T is also lower during nandrolone therapy. However, I would obviously need assessments to show that.

So I guess we can assume that if you would of had free T done that it would of hopefully been close to where it was before adding the nandrolone?

 

[DS3]

So I guess we can assume that if you would of had free T done that it would of hopefully been close to where it was before adding the nandrolone?

I would at this point still say that with significantly less testosterone binding to the androgen receptor, for my free T to be anywhere near what it is when my total T is 1200-1300, my SHBG would have to have taken a massive dip. Maybe it was close to the level it usually stays at.

Only one way to find out. The bloodwork I just sent you from this December is bloodwork with no nandrolone. I started 50 mg nandrolone 3 weeks ago, so let me run it for 3 more weeks to get stable blood levels and I will compare what the result were.

 

[Tokumei]

To

Absolutely no clue. I have had similarly odd test results while using EOD Test Cyp/Prop injections without HCG, then adding in HCG @ 150 units 2x weekly. My Total T went from approx 1200 ng/dL without HCG to 800 ng/dL. Same T dosing and same testing timing.

I may be an oddball, or there may be some logical explanation that I am blatantly missing. I really don't know.

You’re doing something drastically retarded is all i can think of.