Who's currently on T propionate?

[Cataceous]

Iirc , this is almost indentical to my blood work, even down to the dosages (if this is ED pinning?)

Did you find it interesting the deviation (40%), compared to the reported scientific data on test prop half life? (ie, that the apparent half life is around 12-24hrs, yet we were both clearing it at a much faster rate than is documented by the scientific community)
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This is with daily injections. As I mentioned above, I think part of the reason for the shorter apparent half-life is the smaller doses. According to one simple absorption model the apparent half-life decreases as the cube-root of the dose size. So if the research is finding a half-life of 0.8 days with 50-mg injections, then an injection of 9 mg potentially knocks the half-life down to more like 0.45 days. This would be enough to explain the wider hormonal swings.

 

[Cataceous]

Its frustrating to see people’s results here with Cypionate, Enanthate, and Propionate esters half-lives being dramatically shorter than what is established in the medical community. (Enanthate 6 days, Cypionate 7 days, and propionate 2 days) I can’t find an official scientific study on them.
An ester that bridges between prop and Enanthate around 72 hours would be ideal to be developed for daily injections.
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The most credible half-life numbers seem to be 5 days for cypionate, 4.5 days for enanthate, and 0.8 days for propionate. It appears that phenylpropionate would bridge the gap between propionate and enanthate, with a half-life that may be about 1.5 days. As noted in my previous post, the use of smaller doses than those used in the research may result in shorter apparent half-lives.

 

[Nomad]

The most credible half-life numbers seem to be 5 days for cypionate, 4.5 days for enanthate, and 0.8 days for propionate. It appears the phenylpropionate would bridge the gap between propionate and enanthate, with a half-life that may be about 1.5 days. As noted in my previous post, the use of smaller doses than those used in the research may result in shorter apparent half-lives.

I wish my pharmacy carried it (express scripts) would love to try it.

 

[smokedsalmon]

Just started on propionate today, I'll report back with results!

I noticed I'm REALLY exhausted this evening, but my sleep hasn't been the best since quitting drinking 2 weeks ago. I'm sure that's a bigger part of it.

 

[bp]

The most credible half-life numbers seem to be 5 days for cypionate, 4.5 days for enanthate, and 0.8 days for propionate. It appears the phenylpropionate would bridge the gap between propionate and enanthate, with a half-life that may be about 1.5 days. As noted in my previous post, the use of smaller doses than those used in the research may result in shorter apparent half-lives.

Im going to see if i can get a script for “Sustanon 100”
Its an interesting drug as its not simply a 100mg amp of the standard ‘sustanon 250mg”
Sustanon 100 is different in that it only has the propionate , isocaproate and phenylpropionate esters (20/40/40). It omits the long ‘decanoate’ ester found in the 250 drug of the same name.
I think the blood work on the sust 100 will be very interesting when microdosed ED. I wonder if the addition of isocaproate and phenylpropionate to the propionate makes for a lesser deviation?

 

[bp]

I wish my pharmacy carried it (express scripts) would love to try it.

Have a look at “Sustanon 100”
NOT “Sustanon 250”
Sustanon 100 has only 3 esters unlike the 250 version which has the extra ‘decanoate’ ester.

Sustanon 100 is a 20/40/40 mg blend of propionate, isocaproate, phenylpropionate esters.

It looks like it warrants investigation for ED or EoD pinning.

 

[bp]

This is with daily injections. As I mentioned above, I think part of the reason for the shorter apparent half-life is the smaller doses. According to one simple absorption model the apparent half-life decreases as the cube-root of the dose size. So if the research is finding a half-life of 0.8 days with 50-mg injections, then an injection of 9 mg potentially knocks the half-life down to more like 0.45 days. This would be enough to explain the wider hormonal swings.

I had no idea about this. Ill definitely study this.
Thank you very much for bringing this to my (our) attention.

 

[Cataceous]

I wish my pharmacy carried [phenylpropionate] (express scripts) would love to try it.

Yes, it seems to be difficult to obtain legitimately, though pretty easy otherwise.

Im going to see if i can get a script for “Sustanon 100”
Its an interesting drug as its not simply a 100mg amp of the standard ‘sustanon 250mg”
Sustanon 100 is different in that it only has the propionate , isocaproate and phenylpropionate esters (20/40/40). It omits the long ‘decanoate’ ester found in the 250 drug of the same name.
I think the blood work on the sust 100 will be very interesting when microdosed ED. I wonder if the addition of isocaproate and phenylpropionate to the propionate makes for a lesser deviation?

This is an interesting combination, and probably would have an overall apparent half-life of two to three days. But Wikipedia says they stopped making it in 2009. Maybe some knock-offs are available?

 

[bp]

Yes, it seems to be difficult to obtain legitimately, though pretty easy otherwise.


This is an interesting combination, and probably would have an overall apparent half-life of two to three days. But Wikipedia says they stopped making it in 2009. Maybe some knock-offs are available?

The Indian branch of MSD , Zydus Cadila still make it, under license from MSD. (Sustanon 100)

 

[Cataceous]

The Indian branch of MSD , Zydus Cadila still make it, under license from MSD. (Sustanon 100)

Do you have any links about that? I see they bought the Sustanon name, but I haven't seen any mention of where it's available.

 

[Paco1973]

I read threads for a couple hours yesterday as I've been considering trying it out. I can always go back to cypionate anyways! Found a bunch of guys here especially have tried it, but some went off it after a while. Wondering who has stayed on it, or can still say they like it better.

My reasons for trying it:

• Happy on cypionate after lowering my dose recently, but wondering if I'd like another ester more
• Shorter half life so supposedly able to adjust it more and find the right dose - not have to settle like on cypionate because it takes so long to make adjustments (and by then your life has changed anyways)
• Supposedly less water retention
• Guys who say they feel much more alive on it than on cyp/ent
• I already inject daily so it's not a lifestyle change
• Ordering from Empower which I've heard doesn't sting

I know I may see all or none of this happen, or it may be a total flop.

My biggest concern - I have a lot of friends who like doing things later in the evening or at night. Will I "crash"?

Bonus question: any propionate guys a fan of the cyp/prop blends?

I have been on prop for about a year and a half. I‘ve been on trt for 10 years. Prop is vastly superior to cypionate in my experience. I do daily injections of prop and HCG. It’s the first thing I do in the morning. Too easy. Other than some acne issues, everything is on point. I suggest you give it a go for at least 6 months to get your dosage dialed in.

 

[Gman86]

I have been on prop for about a year and a half. I‘ve been on trt for 10 years. Prop is vastly superior to cypionate in my experience. I do daily injections of prop and HCG. It’s the first thing I do in the morning. Too easy. Other than some acne issues, everything is on point. I suggest you give it a go for at least 6 months to get your dosage dialed in.

Whats your prop and HCG dosages?

Do you feel dialed in? What do you notice different from cypionate?

No ai needed?

 

[Paco1973]

Whats your prop and HCG dosages?

Do you feel dialed in? What do you notice different from cypionate?

No ai needed?

The vial is 100 mg/ml and I inject 0.12 ml daily. HCG is about 150 iu daily. I have been taking anastrazole 0.05 mg twice a week and my E2 has been consistently in the low 20s. Honestly, I could probably drop the ai. The acne is most likely from dhea supplementation, which I may drop. I feel pretty dialed in. No complaints here. Cypionate just never gave me consistently good results, and it led to some penile sensitivity issues after several years. Honestly, I think hormonal fluctuations are key to feeling good on trt. If it wasn’t for transference, and absorption issues, I’d say creams are superior. Propionate is the closest I’ve come to mimicking what the body does naturally. As for libido, it’s stronger on some days than others, which suits me fine. I never have any issues performing.

 

[Gman86]

The vial is 100 mg/ml and I inject 0.12 ml daily. HCG is about 150 iu daily. I have been taking anastrazole 0.05 mg twice a week and my E2 has been consistently in the low 20s. Honestly, I could probably drop the ai. The acne is most likely from dhea supplementation, which I may drop. I feel pretty dialed in. No complaints here. Cypionate just never gave me consistently good results, and it led to some penile sensitivity issues after several years. Honestly, I think hormonal fluctuations are key to feeling good on trt. If it wasn’t for transference, and absorption issues, I’d say creams are superior. Propionate is the closest I’ve come to mimicking what the body does naturally. As for libido, it’s stronger on some days than others, which suits me fine. I never have any issues performing.

Awesome, thanks. I’m currently on the cream, and switching back to injections. Just not sure if I want to go back on cyp or prop.

What was your cyp protocol? Do you have labs while on your current protocol?

 

[Nomad]

I had a consultation and let my doc know I wanted to try test prop as I’ve been injecting test c daily. My dose was reduced from 200mg test c to 140mg test p weekly. I’m not feeling it kick in as the doc expected me to. Also had no morning wood this morning.

keeping my fingers crossed that things improve over the next week. Here’s to hoping .2 daily does it for me. May also need to reduce anastrozzle from .1 to .075 daily.

 

[Cataceous]

I had a consultation and let my doc know I wanted to try test prop as I’ve been injecting test c daily. My dose was reduced from 200mg test c to 140mg test p weekly. I’m not feeling it kick in as the doc expected me to. Also had no morning wood this morning.
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So that's about a 16% drop in testosterone dose, which should result in the same drop in the average free testosterone level. If you measured SHBG and total testosterone on daily cypionate and if you also measure these at your propionate trough then you can get an idea of what kind of daily variation you're seeing.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I have an old thread on here where I did like it very much at first. And then things went downhill. Spike in serum T in the morning and then back to hypogonadism by afternoon. Repeat daily. If you have low SHBG then don't even think about it - it will be out of your system within just a few hours and you will seriously regret using Propionate.

Prop isn't bad when used PRN as a booster before a workout or sex but do yourself a favor and stick to the long esters. That's what your body really wants.

 

[camygod]

I wonder if any one has tried injecting prop twice a day just to see if it makes a difference

 

[Cataceous]

... If you have low SHBG then don't even think about it - it will be out of your system within just a few hours and you will seriously regret using Propionate.
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SHBG has little or no effect on the absorption rate of testosterone esters, which is what drives how fast serum levels drop. In other threads I have been commenting on several measurements I made while on daily propionate. These suggest that smaller doses than those used in the research produce shorter apparent half-lives for the drug, down to around half a day in my case. So it is possible to have unexpectedly low trough serum testosterone, though I never noticed a return of hypogonadal symptoms.

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Prop isn't bad when used PRN as a booster before a workout or sex but do yourself a favor and stick to the long esters. That's what your body really wants.

The counterargument is that relatively static hormone levels are characteristic of old men. I've been experimenting with combining enanthate and propionate so that the degree of hormonal variation can be adjusted independently of the average dose. I've liked the results, but the difference is subtle enough that I'm not sure it's worth the extra effort.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I wonder if any one has tried injecting prop twice a day just to see if it makes a difference

Yes. And if your SHBG is low then you have 2 rollercoasters each day. I cannot stress enough the importance of SHBG in a decision to use a fast ester.

For context, I would inject 15mg at 8am. By 1pm, (I have the results somewhere) my Total T was back down to 400s.

Then I would inject 15mg in the afternoon. Same feeling but I never had the second lab draw since it was so late and they were closed 4-5 hours after the afternoon injection. That's 30mg a day of Prop which is really a lot for TRT.

This part is a personal preference. I didn't mind daily injections for T when I used to need it for low SHBG and I do it now for GH Peptides, but twice a day surprisingly interfered with my life in trying to work around the same time every afternoon.