Tips on how to blend propionate with enanthate (or cypionate)?

[SSHSSA74]

I've thought about it, but the practical side of me thinks I would have trouble complying on long-term basis with that approach. Once daily is plenty challenging for me.

The other consideration is that I've found that Prop too close to bedtime negatively impacts sleep because Prop seems to have a stimulating effect. That said, some guys are not bothered by evening doses of T. Let us know if you try the 2x daily.

Ok. Got it. What is your shbg?

 

[Cataceous]

...
Do you find that the retention negatively effects your cardio for an endurance sport? It would seem to have less of an effect on low impact sports like cycling and Nordic skiing, but a killer for running at least in my experience. The joints is where I can really feel it.

Do you take any measures to avoid exacerbating the retention (e.g., monitoring sodium intake)?
...

My sport is cycling, and even in climbing I was stronger at the highest weight. Running might well be iffy with the extra weight, but I already had to give that up due to questionable knees.

On TRT, instead of taking measures to decrease water retention, I was able to stop measures I had used to increase retention, such as a very large sodium intake in the summer months. On long, hot rides I needed to take in 1-2 grams of salt per hour to avoid getting into trouble. I had concerns about this, though I never saw blood pressure go up. In any case, it's convenient to have TRT provide the same effect naturally.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I'm with you. My experiences with Prop versus Cyp were night and day. Two attempts at Cypionate E3.5 went down in flames due to excessive water retention which was causing a host of problems. No such issue on daily prop.

Granted the daily dosing may also have played a part, but prop subjectively felt very different. Fantastic energy even at low doses, but admittedly bit too intense which is why I decided to a shot at Cat's blended approach. I've only been using the protocol for 1 week so way too early to tell.

Here is what 1:2 Cyp/Prop blend looks like graphed out over 6 weeks with the daily variation (not sure how accurate Steriodplotter.com is)

View attachment 14574

Do you inject IM or Sub Q?

 

[Willyt]

Do you inject IM or Sub Q?

Shallow IM. Sub Q has never agreed with me. To your earlier question, SHBG in mid-40s

 

[SSHSSA74]

Shallow IM. Sub Q has never agreed with me. To your earlier question, SHBG in mid-40s

Ok. Yeah. I like IM better than SQ. You have a good SHBG for prop. Mine is in the teens so I need to pair it up with a longer ester. Thanks.

 

[ivkonst2017]

I was gonna ask at what intervals people inject these blends? I think to get most out oof prop you need to do at least EOD, and doing ED IM injections is a NO NO.

This is another thing I think that makes sustanon great because it also has decanoate and many people can feel stable on it even with E3D, twice a week or even E5D injections

 

[Cataceous]

I was gonna ask at what intervals people inject these blends? I think to get most out oof prop you need to do at least EOD, and doing ED IM injections is a NO NO.

This is another thing I think that makes sustanon great because it also has decanoate and many people can feel stable on it even with E3D, twice a week or even E5D injections

Injections need to be the first thing every morning if you're trying to mimic a natural diurnal rhythm. I'd view this as the main goal. If you want stability you could simply inject T undecanoate once every week or two.

 

[ivkonst2017]

Injections need to be the first thing every morning if you're trying to mimic a natural diurnal rhythm. I'd view this as the main goal. If you want stability you could simply inject T undecanoate once every week or two.

But this would work only for people that can use sub q, so for me its not an option. I think Ive found my balance between having short esters and not too frequent injections

 

[Fortunate]

I am considering this route if cream does not end up working (on my second attempt). @Cataceous has some amazing detail out there on how he mixes and uses this. Can anyone else out there comment on their experience with a blend of cyp and prop? Path of least resistance would be to order the "off the shelf" variety from Defy. Has anyone used it? For those that prefer to blend their own ratios, are you just asking your doc for an Rx for both? I don't love the idea of daily injections, but would do it if it's the best option. For those doing daily injections, are you drawing it up daily or do you draw up a few days in advance (save a few minutes in the morning)?

 

[ivkonst2017]

I am considering this route if cream does not end up working (on my second attempt). @Cataceous has some amazing detail out there on how he mixes and uses this. Can anyone else out there comment on their experience with a blend of cyp and prop? Path of least resistance would be to order the "off the shelf" variety from Defy. Has anyone used it? For those that prefer to blend their own ratios, are you just asking your doc for an Rx for both? I don't love the idea of daily injections, but would do it if it's the best option. For those doing daily injections, are you drawing it up daily or do you draw up a few days in advance (save a few minutes in the morning)?

Is sustanon totally unavailable in the USA? Arent at least some trustworthy reputable "alternative" sourcesnto obtain it?

For me sustanon is what brings the effect of fast esters without the need of daily injections. EOD, 3 times a week and even E3D would make most of the people feel stable. Lets say I have a strong bias towards sustanon so dont take my experience, but I've heard the same from a few guys in UK and Australia.

Bear in mind very few people in the forums qnd TRT community can compare sustanon with enanthate/cypionate. Only 2 countries I know of have both available - UK and Australia.
Remember also sustanon is a very special ester for which lacks any experience in the USA - the most advanced country in any aspects of TRT and quantity of patients. So you can obtain reference experience about it mostly from Europe, and we are years behind regarding the quality of doctors, experience and also the number of TRT users. I have spent a lot of time studying sustanon extensively and to be honest didnt find a single doctor comfortable using it, which doesnt mean its a bad ester like many think - just the most experienced and knowledgeable doctors in the field dont have experience using it.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I was gonna ask at what intervals people inject these blends? I think to get most out oof prop you need to do at least EOD, and doing ED IM injections is a NO NO.

This is another thing I think that makes sustanon great because it also has decanoate and many people can feel stable on it even with E3D, twice a week or even E5D injections

I think quite a few guys on here do ED IM injections.

 

[Willyt]

I was gonna ask at what intervals people inject these blends? I think to get most out oof prop you need to do at least EOD, and doing ED IM injections is a NO NO.

ED IM is possible, you just need to rotate sites. Like many here, I use delts, ventro-glute and quads, which offers 6 sites. Admittedly, I find quad injections very unpredictable - sometimes easy as pie and then other times like a charlie horse.

Prop moves too fast in my opinion for EOD, but is ideal for daily fluctuation. Do you feel a significant drop-off on the off-day when doing EOD?

 

[ivkonst2017]

Prop moves too fast in my opinion for EOD, but is ideal for daily fluctuation. Do you feel a significant drop-off on the off-day when doing EOD?

Not any, but I use sustanon not cyp + prop

 

[ivkonst2017]

I think quite a few guys on here do ED IM injections.

Dont know, Ive tried that rotating 8 sites and it was pain in the ass - figuratevely and literally
Also I do not consider doing with 1/2 inch needles real IM injections

 

[SSHSSA74]

Dont know, Ive tried that rotating 8 sites and it was pain in the ass - figuratevely and literally
Also I do not consider doing with 1/2 inch needles real IM injections

lol. i use 1/2 inch into delts and quads. low fat areas.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I am considering this route if cream does not end up working (on my second attempt). @Cataceous has some amazing detail out there on how he mixes and uses this. Can anyone else out there comment on their experience with a blend of cyp and prop? Path of least resistance would be to order the "off the shelf" variety from Defy. Has anyone used it? For those that prefer to blend their own ratios, are you just asking your doc for an Rx for both? I don't love the idea of daily injections, but would do it if it's the best option. For those doing daily injections, are you drawing it up daily or do you draw up a few days in advance (save a few minutes in the morning)?

i use the blend. I feel below average, but I have never felt great on TRT. I draw up daily. getting labs tomorrow. Hopefully can make adjustments based on labs.

 

[Willyt]

i use the blend. I feel below average, but I have never felt great on TRT. I draw up daily. getting labs tomorrow. Hopefully can make adjustments based on labs.

When you say below average, do you mean you feel worse on than the blend than your pre-TRT baseline? Has anything improved for you on the blend protocol?

 

[SSHSSA74]

When you say below average, do you mean you feel worse on than the blend than your pre-TRT baseline? Has anything improved for you on the blend protocol?

I feel better on TRT than off but below average of where I hope to be. Sub par libido. Uh, not really to be honest.

 

[Fortunate]

Been following this closely. Would love to hear how others are doing on a daily protocol (blend or no blend). Please share your experiences. @Willyt, still doing well?

 

[Fortunate]

My first transition was from only enanthate to only propionate. I stopped the enanthate and gradually ramped up the propionate over a week or two. This in theory kept overall testosterone usage more constant. Going the other direction is the reverse, immediately adding the longer ester while slowly tapering the propionate.

Testosterone propionate is available from Empower, and possibly other compounding pharmacies.

It's not essential to mix esters in a separate vial, though it is more convenient and allows for finer adjustment of the relative amounts of the two esters. In theory the pharmacokinetics could be somewhat different, but in practice I never noticed a difference between pre-mixing and drawing separately into the same syringe.

@Cataceous, as you know, I am interested in following your logic. I am currently not on either ester. I was planning on starting both esters simultaneously. As I read your post above, however, it sounds like you did this one ester at a time until you started the blend. Was this by design or were you in a trial and error and eventually ended up with the blend?