Injecting Testosterone Propionate on a Daily Basis

[Vince]

Jason, now that your estradiol levels look so good, any thoughts on stopping or reducing your AI.

 

[Vince Carter]

Jason, now that your estradiol levels look so good, any thoughts on stopping or reducing your AI.

According to his post it looks like he dropped the AI in Dec 16

 

[Vince Carter]

@JasonOnTRT
How many hours post injection was your blood draw? Curious if it was more/less than 24hrs.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Jason, now that your estradiol levels look so good, any thoughts on stopping or reducing your AI.

Yes, I stopped taking it about a week ago because I was thinking that it was going to end up lower than it did. If E2 goes up enough that I start feeling any symptoms then I have enough Anastrozole caps left to spot treat it until I can get a refill and proper dose adjustment. I didn't feel any symptoms in the results above even when it was at 39.

In my case it looks like E2 can be controlled really well just by injection frequency. With the Propionate, it is probably too low (along with DHT), and that was only using 1/8mg Anastrozole twice a week. Estradiol improves lipids, offers cardiovascular protection, protects bones, and is essential for libido among other things. So I'm going to try to not lower it for the sake of lowering it in the absence of symptoms and let it find its own balance.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

@JasonOnTRT
How many hours post injection was your blood draw? Curious if it was more/less than 24hrs.

Less than 24 hours. Here are the collection times.

10/25/2016 07:44am
12/08/2016 07:40am
04/25/2017 07:19am

I always do injections between 8:45-9:00am unless I'm traveling for work. Like madman said it is a fast ester but wow, it is really, really fast for me. I do feel pretty good, but I would like to get FT and DHT back up.

 

[Vince Carter]

Less than 24 hours. Here are the collection times.

10/25/2016 07:44am
12/08/2016 07:40am
04/25/2017 07:19am

I always do injections between 8:45-9:00am unless I'm traveling for work. Like madman said it is a fast ester but wow, it is really, really fast for me. I do feel pretty good, but I would like to get FT and DHT back up.

Thanks, I suspected you may want a dose bump upward, I had read somewhere that mg/mg Cyp and Prop were very close in strength but you only changed by 2mg. Might want to try upwards of 25mg/Daily.

 

[Will Brink]

I have read that too. I didn't feel as though I had a lot of water retention on Cypionate, but my wedding ring is just a little more loose now. And I'm by no means muscular, but my arms look slightly more defined. So maybe there is some truth to that. Since the faster ester gets it in you quickly and then it's gone, maybe there is less time for aromatization and/or 5-ar. Whereas daily Cypionate keeps you at max levels up until you stop. So the testosterone is the same of course but the rate of delivery is quite different.

I have Total+Free T, E2, and DHT between daily Cypionate, daily Propionate, and bi-weekly Cypionate. It's not a direct compare because my Anastrozole dose was changed but will hopefully still be helpful.

If someone is intent on doing daily IM/sub Q of T, it makes little sense to use anything but prop. The half life and pharmacokinetics make daily cyp or enanth illogical. 2-3 times per week max with cyp/enanth.

The differences in pharmacokinetics between prop and cyp/enanth might explain some of the effects and I'd expect cyp/enanth used daily to see bother higher TT and E2 all things being equal, but there's scant data there.

Never listen to anything you read on steroids forums where people are discussing (usually anecdotal) effects of steroid stacks. It will only add confusion and disinformation and is a different animal to legit TRT/HRT.

Per usual, if you feel good on that schedule and essential health metrics in line, drive on

- Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Thanks, I suspected you may want a dose bump upward, I had read somewhere that mg/mg Cyp and Prop were very close in strength but you only changed by 2mg. Might want to try upwards of 25mg/Daily.

My next consult with Defy is next week when I'm down there in Tampa, so I'm definitely going to bring that up. Once things stabilize I think it would be neat to see results from a blood draw say 4 hours post injection and then another one 22-23 hours post injection to see what changed and by how much.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

FWIW, I tried all sorts of prop protocols such as 40mg every third day, 30 every other day, etc and I arrived, through trial and error based on how I feel at 12mg every day as the best for me. This puts me in the 600-800 TT range and I seem to feel a bit better there than at higher levels, so I wouldn't assume that a higher number will necessarily help although only symptoms will tell. I don't need an AI where I am, although I am experimenting with low doses to see if it helps. I intentionally did not check my blood work when I started so that I would not bias myself about how I felt based on bloodwork.

 

[Vince Carter]

in 1-2 weeks at my next refill Ill be switching to Propionate @ 26mg/D, change from Cyp 28mg/D

 

[miked123]

in 1-2 weeks at my next refill Ill be switching to Propionate @ 26mg/D, change from Cyp 28mg/D

Good luck and please update us.

Subjectively, when I was using Prop (50mg EOD, injections at night), my brain fog and fatigue lifted almost immediately (I am a lower SHBG guy, usually between 20-32). I have not felt anything close to it on daily Cyp (18mg daily).

I stopped Prop because I ran into 2 big problems:

- Crazy paraesthesia (tingling in both hands and feet). So bad, I could not sleep at night, and it only got worse.

- Injections (into the delts with slin pin) stung like hell, and got only slightly better over the course of a few weeks.

Eventually, I quit TRT within a month because of problem 1, but problem 2 was really starting to nag at me. Wondering if daily Prop injections done in the morning, subQ, with slightly lower dosage, and Prop compounded by Empower would make a difference?

 

[You Gonna Learn Today]

Going through Empower, what is the price of Prop? I noticed a mention of a 100mg/10ml vial. So is the price comparable to Cyp or does it come out more expensive? I guess I'm trying to find out the ml to ml price comparison, basically. I know 2 - 200mg/5ml vials from Empower run for $75, so just trying to see if there's a difference in price.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Going through Empower, what is the price of Prop? I noticed a mention of a 100mg/10ml vial. So is the price comparable to Cyp or does it come out more expensive? I guess I'm trying to find out the ml to ml price comparison, basically. I know 2 - 200mg/5ml vials from Empower run for $75, so just trying to see if there's a difference in price.

You bring up a good point. It is less than what the T Cyp costs per vial, but since it's half the concentration you go through it twice as fast assuming the same dose. I don't have the receipt here but I want to say that a 10ml of Prop cost like 80% of what 2 5ml vials of T Cyp was. It was less expensive but definitely not half.

I was on T Cyp 20mg daily so that was 0.1ml per day because it is 200mg/ml and 10ml would last a little over 90 days. A 10ml of Prop is going to last half as long at 20mg daily because it's 0.2ml at a time. So the Prop does end up costing more.

 

[Vince Carter]

I noticed and new right away it was going to ultimately be more costly at 100/mL concentration, 10mL is going to last me 40 shots or 40 days.

 

[Vince Carter]

You bring up a good point. It is less than what the T Cyp costs per vial, but since it's half the concentration you go through it twice as fast assuming the same dose. I don't have the receipt here but I want to say that a 10ml of Prop cost like 80% of what 2 5ml vials of T Cyp was. It was less expensive but definitely not half.

I was on T Cyp 20mg daily so that was 0.1ml per day because it is 200mg/ml and 10ml would last a little over 90 days. A 10ml of Prop is going to last half as long at 20mg daily because it's 0.2ml at a time. So the Prop does end up costing more.

Im going to ask if 200mg/mL strength is avail.

 

[lowe2sucks]

i remember from old days when I used prop I could really feel when it peaked and overall felt more that im using testosterone.. the only downside was it was really hard to continue with that many shots per week.. i mean one thing is to poke yourself everyday for few months but to do it for whole life it's not that easy.. but definitely there is something special about short esters.

 

[madman]

i remember from old days when I used prop I could really feel when it peaked and overall felt more that im using testosterone.. the only downside was it was really hard to continue with that many shots per week.. i mean one thing is to poke yourself everyday for few months but to do it for whole life it's not that easy.. but definitely there is something special about short esters.

The only thing special about short esters is the test hits your system quicker!

 

[Vince Carter]

update on my Prop: placed my order and due to Empower not shipping to Missouri, I'll have to use Hallandale (again) but the bad part is hallandale only prepares their Prop @ 50mg/mL strength meaning I'm go to have to shoot .5mL of oil every day. And it costs more than Cyp.

I'm going to run 11 weeks on it and see how it goes, it could be the miracle cure, or I go back to Cyp.

 

[Vince]

update on my Prop: placed my order and due to Empower not shipping to Missouri, I'll have to use Hallandale (again) but the bad part is hallandale only prepares their Prop @ 50mg/mL strength meaning I'm go to have to shoot .5mL of oil every day. And it costs more than Cyp.

I'm going to run 11 weeks on it and see how it goes, it could be the miracle cure, or I go back to Cyp.

I'm looking forward to reading your updates.

 

[user_joe]

I believe they do that because it shouldn't sting as much, which prop is apparently notorious for.

update on my Prop: placed my order and due to Empower not shipping to Missouri, I'll have to use Hallandale (again) but the bad part is hallandale only prepares their Prop @ 50mg/mL strength meaning I'm go to have to shoot .5mL of oil every day. And it costs more than Cyp.

I'm going to run 11 weeks on it and see how it goes, it could be the miracle cure, or I go back to Cyp.