Oxandrolone and Nandrolone (common availability)

[Kev101]

I think it has to be exactly the same active drug since the FDE or DEA, whoever, certifies these compounding pharmacies. I see some get fined and go out of business when they try to mess around.

Point of diminishing returns is what you seek, me too. I assume it varies with each person and their tolerance to this compound. If guys are getting it from compounding pharmacies @ 50mg these days, I'd love to hear their experiences and see their blood work.

I would cut the 50 in half and run that bad boy for 8 weeks, then get labs.

 

[Gman86]

I’m definitely all for these clinics being open to prescribing men all these different compounds, as long as they’re legal. I’m of the camp that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own bodies. It makes no sense to me when guys get butt hurt over what other men do with their bodies, just because it doesn’t fit into their idea of “HRT”. All I care about is being happy, and helping others be as happy as possible. Life’s literally about being as happy as possible, imo. For me, being happy includes optimizing myself as much as possible, mentally, physically and emotionally. While monitoring blood markers and making sure there’s always a good balance between optimization and health. If other guys’ balance favors physical optimization over health to a certain degree, I’m all for it. Maybe most of his happiness comes from the way he looks or his gym performance, or triathlons, or some other types of physical ventures. If that’s what makes that guy happy in life, I support it 100%. We would all praise a guy that made it to the NFL and is making a ton of money, most likely on PED’s, and doing worse things to his body and brain than any guy on HRT that pushes it a little over the edge. That guy will get vilified by HRT communities for him doing what makes him happy, but those same guys will praise NFL players, for example, that are doing way more harm to their bodies to be happy. Bottom line, never cater to the minority. Most men are cool and supportive and understand that as humans we have a natural tendency to want more, and push things a bit, and just don’t care what other men decide to do with their bodies. At the end of the day, what another man chooses to do with his body has zero effect on me. So if a guy wants to add in low dose Oxandrolone and nandrolone to his HRT protocol, by all means go for it. I don’t even care if it’s strictly for aesthetic purposes. If it’s legal and ur doctor is willing to prescribe it to u, go for it. I would prefer that anyone using these compounds has done their due diligence in researching all about them, and is going to be monitoring blood markers closely while on them, but again, if they don’t it really doesn’t matter to me at the end of the day. It’s their body, and I think everyone should be able to do literally whatever they want with their own bodies, as long as it’s not hurting others

 

[Gman86]

I think it has to be exactly the same active drug since the FDE or DEA, whoever, certifies these compounding pharmacies. I see some get fined and go out of business when they try to mess around.

Point of diminishing returns is what you seek, me too. I assume it varies with each person and their tolerance to this compound. If guys are getting it from compounding pharmacies @ 50mg these days, I'd love to hear their experiences and see their blood work.

I would cut the 50 in half and run that bad boy for 8 weeks, then get labs.

I’m not sure if any compounding pharmacies make it in tab form. I just ordered some this morning from Empower and they only make capsules.

I’m going to be doing 15mg/ day along with my testosterone. I’m pretty sure my labs are completely covered by my insurance, so I plan on getting a good amount of labs in about a month. Definitely want to see what my lipids, E2, SHBG and free T look like compared to before taking the 15mg/ day. I just had a ton of labs done at the beginning of this month to compare to. So should be interesting

I just ordered some gelatin capsules on Amazon. Since the half life is fairly short, I plan on trying to open up the 15mg capsule and putting 1/3 in a capsule, putting another 1/3 in a capsule, and keeping 1/3 in the original capsule. So this way I can take the 15mg in 3 separate doses. Probably in am, before my workout and in the evening.

Do u guys know if Oxandrolone is better taken with or without food by any chance?

 

[Gman86]

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Reading through this thread, some of it is a bit sensationalized to the extent of what it was originally poking fun at.

It isn’t Christmas for prescribing anabolics such as Nandrolone, Oxandrolone, even Stanozolol. The fact is that in the United States, they have never been illegal nor more difficult to prescribe from a regulatory standpoint. A practitioner can prescribe whatever they are willing to document justification for. The 2 big problems were: 1 these medications are more difficult for patients to get. There has been no commercial Winstrol for years. You have to get Stanozolol from a compounding pharmacy. Likewise Organon discontinued Deca Durabilin years ago and you have to get Nandrolone Decanoate from a compounding pharmacy. There are few who make them. You can still get Oxadrin, that’s the proper, non-bro name for commercial Oxandrolone since almost 30 years ago when it was reintroduced to the market. The second problem was justification or rather a fear of it because of how vague the laws around prescribing them are written. There is a lot of clinical data out now about off-label uses of these substances. Thanks in no small part to the fellows at Baylor and the massive amount of research that Dr. Lipshultz requires them to conduct and publish year after year.

They can help with:

• Joint and ligament pain and healing
• Libido
• Metabolic disease
• Controlling estrogens
• Lowering triglycerides and Lp;a)
• And more

As madman said several times, nobody taking only low therapeutic doses of any of these is getting ripped and packing on muscle. Anyone saying they take a 2.5mg tab of Oxandrolone to get ready to compete, probably with their spinach and egg white omelet is straight up lying to your face. This might come as a shock, but anyone can say whatever they want and make shit up on YouTube. You don’t have to go to Mexico as the last place on earth to find Oxandrolone outside of a compounding pharmacy. You can price 60 tabs on GoodRx from Publix for a little over $300. Stay away from Walmart though because it’s over $500 there.

There are a lot of scumbag places who will prescribe you these medications without much if any responsibility. That isn’t anything new except that they now see legitimate clinics waiting and researching and verifying to prescribe more often above the table and they probably think guys we can make some money here. When they can’t get the real stuff, they substitute assuming (often correctly unfortunately) that most won’t know any better. That also happens now with gonadorelin being pushed in place of HCG. As educated patients, it is our responsibility to discern what looks right and what does not. Because our goal should be to use all of this knowledge to maximize and extend our health and lives.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I’m not sure if any compounding pharmacies make it in tab form. I just ordered some this morning from Empower and they only make capsules.

I’m going to be doing 15mg/ day along with my testosterone. I’m pretty sure my labs are completely covered by my insurance, so I plan on getting a good amount of labs in about a month. Definitely want to see what my lipids, E2, SHBG and free T look like compared to before taking the 15mg/ day. I just had a ton of labs done at the beginning of this month to compare to. So should be interesting

I just ordered some gelatin capsules on Amazon. Since the half life is fairly short, I plan on trying to open up the 15mg capsule and putting 1/3 in a capsule, putting another 1/3 in a capsule, and keeping 1/3 in the original capsule. So this way I can take the 15mg in 3 separate doses. Probably in am, before my workout and in the evening.

Do u guys know if Oxandrolone is better taken with or without food by any chance?

That is really a LOT of trouble that you are going to, for what? Oxandrolone has around 9-11 hour half life. Just take the capsule with some caffeine which will more than double the bioavailability and make things easy on yourself.

 

[Gman86]

That is really a LOT of trouble that you are going to, for what? Oxandrolone has around 9-11 hour half life. Just take the capsule with some caffeine which will more than double the bioavailability and make things easy on yourself.

Thanks for the tip. I don’t drink coffee or take caffeine, so that option is out for me personally, but that’s a really good tip for most guys to know. No sarcasm. Definitely a great tip.

It’s really no trouble for me. It will take under 2 mins in the morning to do it. But I agree, splitting it into 3 doses per day is probably overkill. I’ll realistically probably end up just taking 2 doses each day.

Do u mind if I ask ur opinion real quick? If my HDL was 61 on my last labs, what do u think 15mg/ day of Oxandrolone will bring it down to? Obv there’s no way to know, but was jw what u thought if u had to guess. I’m going to get a lipid panel done about 4 weeks after starting the Oxandrolone, so won’t have to wait too long to find out, but was jc if u has a guess. Thanks

 

[Gman86]

@Jason Sypolt also, u mentioned one of those compounds lowers triglycerides, which compound were u referring to?

and do u know if Oxandrolone should be taken with or without food by any chance? Or does it not matter?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

@Jason Sypolt also, u mentioned one of those compounds lowers triglycerides, which compound were u referring to?

and do u know if Oxandrolone should be taken with or without food by any chance? Or does it not matter?

Both Nandrolone and Oxandrolone will lower triglycerides (and HDL to be fair) and will also lower Lp(a). Lp(a) is an excellent predictor of CVD, possibly more so than HDL/LDL. I have genetics for high triglycerides and my dad died from atherosclerosis almost 3 years ago. They were over 400 before starting TRT at only age 35. Adding T lowered triglycerides to 250-ish. Adding other anabolics on top of that lowered trigs further to 100. Within a couple of weeks of taking a break from Oxandrolone, my trigs start going right back up.

it’s pretty much impossible to say how Oxandrolone will affect your HDL. 25mg a day has made mine undetectable in the past if I took no protective supplements. That just happened to be while I was at a health fair for a previous employer years ago and when this RN checked my cholesterol, the look on his face was priceless. And if I do take supplements then my HDL only drops by 3-4 points. I have never had a single problem with Oxandrolone and my liver. I’ve taken the 50mg dose for 90 days and had occasional alcohol, and you would never know I was on it looking at my lab results if it weren’t for single-digit SHBG. Oxandrolone will quickly run that into the ground too. I did lose body fat, but did not gain a lot of muscle.

The problem you are going to have with splitting the capsules is that you aren’t going to get even doses. The powder in them is not pure Oxandrolone, but also fillers, binders, and so on which stabilize, preserve, help with absorption, slow absorption, etc. depending on the product. I have some 25mg and 50mg capsules and they are the same size. If you pour out a capsule then you could theoretically split the dose 50/50 if you divided the powder in half. Or theoretically still get all of the active ingredient all on one side and all filler/binder on the other.

 

[DixieWrecked]

We talking mass gains (muscle/water/adipose)?

Post up pics before and afte

Lean tissue gain and fat loss.

No. I don't care if you don't believe me. If you don't think people can gain muscle from steady state levels of AAS in their blood over 2 years that's your perogative. I am just as disciplined now as I was when I was natural and I'm leaner, stronger, a weigh about 18lbs more.

And I was already top teir when I was natural. I was at my genetic peak after 20 years of lifting. Repping 500 lb deadlifts with 8-9 free T levels. Lean and strong. Very proud of what I had achieved all those years totally natural. But alas, on the 200mg of AAS, I am on an entirely differnt level.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Lean tissue gain and fat loss.

No. I don't care if you don't believe me. If you don't think people can gain muscle from steady state levels of AAS in their blood over 2 years that's your perogative. I am just as disciplined now as I was when I was natural and I'm leaner, stronger, a weigh about 18lbs more.

And I was already top teir when I was natural. I was at my genetic peak after 20 years of lifting. Repping 500 lb deadlifts with 8-9 free T levels. Lean and strong. Very proud of what I had achieved all those years totally natural. But alas, on the 200mg of AAS, I am on an entirely differnt level.

If you have been lifting for 20 years and are already at your peak natural, then you know that you are the exception when it comes to seeing changes from low-dose AAS. Your body and performance is already optimized and has nowhere to go but up by adding anything. I’m not discounting your hard work at all. There are always outliers even though we often write things in terms of absolutes, and that is you in this case. AAS is a tool that you get more out of if you are serious about it. Anyone can hammer in a nail, but not nearly as many can frame a house.

The average guy working out 1-2 times a week when he isn’t eating out every other night or who bikes to work or goes on a walk several times a week isn’t going to see that. The AAS is going to negate some of the bad lifestyle choices at best. That is the vast majority of the population. Still a tool to help, but the skills and discipline to take advantage aren’t there.

 

[Gman86]

Lean tissue gain and fat loss.

No. I don't care if you don't believe me. If you don't think people can gain muscle from steady state levels of AAS in their blood over 2 years that's your perogative. I am just as disciplined now as I was when I was natural and I'm leaner, stronger, a weigh about 18lbs more.

And I was already top teir when I was natural. I was at my genetic peak after 20 years of lifting. Repping 500 lb deadlifts with 8-9 free T levels. Lean and strong. Very proud of what I had achieved all those years totally natural. But alas, on the 200mg of AAS, I am on an entirely differnt level.

Im with u on this one. I’m a member of multiple TRT ******** groups, and the physiques a lot of these guys have on moderate TRT doses, usually around 140-160mg per week, are extremely impressive. And they all seem to be older guys. Like in their 40’s-60’s. Nothing u would ever see from a completely natural 40-60 year old guy, unless they were a genetic anomaly. From my understanding, with any anabolic agent there’s a point of diminishing returns, and progress isn’t linear. Most of the muscle building benefits come with just moderate AAS usage. Obv increasing doses will increase gains, but as u continue to increase dosages the percentage of improvement decreases as u go higher.

 

[madman]

Lean tissue gain and fat loss.

No. I don't care if you don't believe me. If you don't think people can gain muscle from steady state levels of AAS in their blood over 2 years that's your perogative. I am just as disciplined now as I was when I was natural and I'm leaner, stronger, a weigh about 18lbs more.

And I was already top teir when I was natural. I was at my genetic peak after 20 years of lifting. Repping 500 lb deadlifts with 8-9 free T levels. Lean and strong. Very proud of what I had achieved all those years totally natural. But alas, on the 200mg of AAS, I am on an entirely differnt level

Like I said.....post pics!

You speak so proudly yet hide behind your avatar.

Of course, someone can add some muscle/enhance fat loss to their frame when using therapeutic doses of T or ND when following a proper diet/training protocol but there is a huge difference between claiming to gain a lot of mass (actin/myosin + intra-cellular water + extra-cellular water) when compared to pure dry gains.

No one is blowing up with any significant amount of dry gains using therapeutic doses of T, ND, or any AAS.

Along with dry gains (actin/myosin), many on trt are holding 5-10 lbs in water weight (intra-cellular/extra-cellular) and some even hold more which you would piss out when you come off.

See it all the time.....I just started trt 4 weeks ago and my muscles blew up man I'm 10 lbs heavier.....LMFAO!

You stated that you made amazing gains on low dose T/ND (you were running higher dosed T protocol before) as your FT levels were through the roof (your past threads I responded to).

I am calling you out as I am doubting you packed on any significant amount of pure muscle tissue (dry gains) using therapeutic doses of T/ND.

Nothing worse than guys claiming to be packing on a significant amount of muscle tissue (dry gains) using therapeutic doses of T let alone ND yet they have no pics to back it up.

Sounds just as bad as the guys coming on here going on about a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) stating they hit this or that level yet they will not post labs to back it up let alone have no f***king idea where their FT level truly sits as they never have had it tested using an accurate assay!

Then you have the ones that go on ranting/raving that they need to run absurdly high TT/FT levels to feel good on TRT.....you know those same individuals that were switching their protocol every 6 weeks because they never felt good yet they never gave the protocol a fighting chance because once blood levels stabilize it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt.

These are the same individuals who have never given a lower dosed protocol a fighting chance let alone are the ones constantly struggling with sides trying to chase that pipe dream you know the one with the so-called raging libido with titanium erections 24/7, crazy amounts of energy, packing on muscle with wolverine like recovery in the gym!

Top it all off that some of these individuals are the ones ranting/raving about running absurd trough TT (1500-2000 ng/dL) levels with their FT through the f***ing roof and boasting about making significant gains on trt are the same ones blasting (400-600 mg/week T) and cruising on 200 mg/week.

Forums are loaded with many who blast/cruise yet they claim to be on trt only.

Blurs the line when we are talking about what so-called significant dry gains were made on therapeutic doses of T!

 

[Gman86]

Both Nandrolone and Oxandrolone will lower triglycerides (and HDL to be fair) and will also lower Lp(a). Lp(a) is an excellent predictor of CVD, possibly more so than HDL/LDL. I have genetics for high triglycerides and my dad died from atherosclerosis almost 3 years ago. They were over 400 before starting TRT at only age 35. Adding T lowered triglycerides to 250-ish. Adding other anabolics on top of that lowered trigs further to 100. Within a couple of weeks of taking a break from Oxandrolone, my trigs start going right back up.

it’s pretty much impossible to say how Oxandrolone will affect your HDL. 25mg a day has made mine undetectable in the past if I took no protective supplements. That just happened to be while I was at a health fair for a previous employer years ago and when this RN checked my cholesterol, the look on his face was priceless. And if I do take supplements then my HDL only drops by 3-4 points. I have never had a single problem with Oxandrolone and my liver. I’ve taken the 50mg dose for 90 days and had occasional alcohol, and you would never know I was on it looking at my lab results if it weren’t for single-digit SHBG. Oxandrolone will quickly run that into the ground too. I did lose body fat, but did not gain a lot of muscle.

The problem you are going to have with splitting the capsules is that you aren’t going to get even doses. The powder in them is not pure Oxandrolone, but also fillers, binders, and so on which stabilize, preserve, help with absorption, slow absorption, etc. depending on the product. I have some 25mg and 50mg capsules and they are the same size. If you pour out a capsule then you could theoretically split the dose 50/50 if you divided the powder in half. Or theoretically still get all of the active ingredient all on one side and all filler/binder on the other.

Thats a really good point about the fillers and binders. I’ll probably stick with just splitting it up into 2 doses per day then. Obv I won’t be getting equal amounts of Oxandrolone each dose, but it won’t matter too much. Still will be getting 15mg/ day

What supplements do u take that minimize the HDL drop to only a few points? And what is ur general baseline HDL level? Mine is around 60. 61 on recent labs. So I have a little wiggle room in that regard. Obv want to minimize it dropping as much as possible tho if I can help it.

What was ur SHBG prior to it going into single digits, and what dose of Oxandrolone brought it down to single digits? My SHBG was at 39 on my most recent labs

 

[DixieWrecked]

I don't know what to tell you, Madman, I don't need your validation and I'm not going to post pics for you. Drugs like Nandrolone and Oxandrolone were developed because they are anabolics. That's their entire therapeutic puurpose. I'm not talking tough behind an avatar. I am straight up admitting that the AAS took me to the next level and there is ample amounts of andectotal and scientific evidence that supports this reality. Maybe your experience is differnet and I am sorry if thats been the case. But I've had great results (in the gym at least). If you can't celebrate that small success with me, thats your choice. It's not exactly earth shattering news that AAS are................ANBOLIC. I never used the term "blowing up". Maybe thats the miscommunication. I'm not a pro bodybuilder.

If you don't believe me, look up Greag Doucette, Tim Meadows, more plates more dates. They advocate low dose long term enhancement for performance, longevity and solid gains. I'd argue that the bigger doses with shorter durations would result in less solid, watery gains.

 

[madman]

I don't know what to tell you, Madman, I don't need your validation and I'm not going to post pics for you. Drugs like Nandrolone and Oxandrolone were developed because they are anabolics. That's their entire therapeutic puurpose. I'm not talking tough behind an avatar. I am straight up admitting that the AAS took me to the next level and there is ample amounts of andectotal and scientific evidence that supports this reality. Maybe your experience is differnet and I am sorry if thats been the case. But I've had great results (in the gym at least). If you can't celebrate that small success with me, thats your choice. It's not exactly earth shattering news that AAS are................ANBOLIC. I never used the term "blowing up". Maybe thats the miscommunication. I'm not a pro bodybuilder.

If you don't believe me, look up Greag Doucette, Tim Meadows, more plates more dates. They advocate low dose long term enhancement for performance, longevity and solid gains. I'd argue that the bigger doses with shorter durations would result in less solid, watery gains.

You stated:

My gym gains have been awesome on TRT. With ND, even better. I am definetely on a different level with and without it. Thats with just 200mg of anabolics a week. MAybe I'm a good responder. Pretty sure there are guys in there on tons of gear that look like regular joes.

I replied:

We talking mass gains (muscle/water/adipose)?

Post up pics before and after as one will easily be able to get an idea of how much of your awesome gains are solid!

Gaining muscle and losing fat sure.

Unfortunately, no one is making any significant dry gains using therapeutic doses of such.....that is the whole point.

Not on 100-150 mg/week T let alone 50-100 mg/week ND!

I am not nor have I ever denied that therapeutic doses will improve one's body composition (muscle gain/fat loss) but there is no comparison between the significant gains one would make when using steroid doses and this is using moderate doses 300-500 mg/week T, 200-400 mg/week ND, not those absurd gram amounts let alone take away the water weight from the gains made on T and dry gains will still be better than what one would achieve using therapeutic doses of T let alone ND.

Been in the game a long time my man and have played both sides of the field.

Think I will pass on the names you mentioned LOL.

 

[madman]

Trt forums let alone gootube is littered with blast/cruisers that claim such!

 

[madman]

I don't know what to tell you, Madman, I don't need your validation and I'm not going to post pics for you. Drugs like Nandrolone and Oxandrolone were developed because they are anabolics. That's their entire therapeutic puurpose. I'm not talking tough behind an avatar. I am straight up admitting that the AAS took me to the next level and there is ample amounts of andectotal and scientific evidence that supports this reality. Maybe your experience is differnet and I am sorry if thats been the case. But I've had great results (in the gym at least). If you can't celebrate that small success with me, thats your choice. It's not exactly earth shattering news that AAS are................ANBOLIC. I never used the term "blowing up". Maybe thats the miscommunication. I'm not a pro bodybuilder.

If you don't believe me, look up Greag Doucette, Tim Meadows, more plates more dates. They advocate low dose long term enhancement for performance, longevity and solid gains. I'd argue that the bigger doses with shorter durations would result in less solid, watery gains.

You mean this f***ing clown!

LMFAO

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-steroid-smuggler-greg-austin-doucette-fined-50k-1.2627354

CCES hands Halifax steroid smuggler eight year ban at cycling race - Canadian Cycling Magazine

Greg Doucette, famous for smuggling hundreds of thousands of dollars in illegal steroids into Canada, ran afoul of anti-doping regulations again after participating in a road race in Nova Scotia

cyclingmagazine.ca

 

[Gman86]

@DixieWrecked best to not feed the trolls. I’d just starve (ignore) them if I were u. He just likes to muddy up threads with constant arguing, and offers no constructive input to the OP’s. Everyone else obv understands what ur saying. Happy that u have been making progress in the gym. As men, it definitely helps improve overall well being when u feel strong and like what u look like physically. That improved well being definitely carries over to all improving all other aspects of life, imo.

 

[madman]

@DixieWrecked best to not feed the trolls. I’d just starve (ignore) them if I were u. He just likes to muddy up threads with constant arguing, and offers no constructive input to the OP’s. Everyone else obv understands what ur saying. Happy that u have been making progress in the gym. As men, it definitely helps improve overall well being when u feel strong and like what u look like physically. That improved well being definitely carries over to all other aspects of life, imo.

Someone was bound to call him out sooner or later!

If he would have simply stated that his gains were amazing and posted pre/post hrt pics then we would have seen what kind of progress he was speaking of.

You want to go on stating I'm getting jacked/swole on therapeutic doses of T/ND then back your s**tup.

I am making the point that no one is making significant dry gains in muscle tissue on 100-150 mg/week T let alone with 50-100 mg/week ND.

Not too hard to block out your face and post pics as most would be proud to!


Dropped to the 100mg of test recently and added the 100mg Nandrolone at the same time about a month ago. Level headed. Calm. Kind. But getting jacked in the gym. Sense of humor in tact. Basically feel like myself except a little better

I've also tried the following combos in the past:
180mg Test + 100mg ND. Hated it. Got swole but jealous, angry, emotional, not level headed. Can't sleep. Sexual function no good

100mg test standalone (with and without hCG): Didn't like it. Basically no benefits of injecting test. Didn't hate it but basically pointless.

180mg - 200mg Test. Don't like it. On edge, Cant sleep. sexual function no good.


Yeah man. Some love that high Test feeling and I wish I was one of them. I feel like how DBossa acts, if that makes sense. I really can't stand it. I'm kinda jealous of you. When I added that ND made it 3 times worse.

Plan is to take enough T to fulfill basic physiological functions and cap it off with ND to become closer to my idols like you mentioned. ND with the low dose test seems to be mentally benign so far



If people want to come on a forum and talk protocols let alone body composition changes post labs and pics otherwise you're bound to get aired out!