My daily Testosterone Propionate diary

[Alive]

Guys like me who take HCG are suppressed. What software did you use for summing the curves by the way?

 

[M.J]

I had multiple test showing my t (before starting trt) around 11 and again around 6
A friend also shared his results normal t around 18 and sometimes 10. (I usually do early morning test but sometimes did middle of the day out of curiosity)

I am assuming that normal cycle peak and trough goes down by 50% ? just looking at these two cases.
If true then I guess any protocol that shows this variation should be ok ?

 

[Cataceous]

Guys like me who take HCG are suppressed. What software did you use for summing the curves by the way?

I used spreadsheet software, OpenOffice in this case.

...
I am assuming that normal cycle peak and trough goes down by 50% ? just looking at these two cases.
If true then I guess any protocol that shows this variation should be ok ?

The "50%" figure is a rough estimate. Even between different younger men the figure can vary a fair bit. I have been arguing that there may be some benefits to simulating this while on TRT, but it remains an unproven hypothesis.

 

[Krocco]

I used spreadsheet software, OpenOffice in this case.


The "50%" figure is a rough estimate. Even between different younger men the figure can vary a fair bit. I have been arguing that there may be some benefits to simulating this while on TRT, but it remains an unproven hypothesis.

With subq prop, injected at bed time, this pattern would propably be followed the best.. but I have tried to inject prop when going to bed.. It keeps me restles at night. Wake up several times a night and feel over energetic when I should rest.. morning injections work the best. Energetic through the day and calm and cool towards the night..

 

[Alive]

Yeah I'm doing 0.25 mg EOD in the morning plus 300 IU of HCG twice a week.

 

[Krocco]

And if you wanna really hype up the hifi here.. and that is a phenomenon that usually occurs once in a while...
Just saying:
Why hasn't anyone mentioned taking Tprop twice a day subq?

 

[Vince Carter]

Ive had the passing thought of twice per day injections but never found a reason to really go that way, would take some dedication to stick yourself twice a day every day.

 

[Vince Carter]

Yeah I'm doing 0.25 ml EOD in the morning plus 300 IU of HCG twice a week.

a ml isn't a dose its a volume of fluid...dosing is in milligrams, a .25mL doesn't mean anything as to the dose.

 

[Alive]

Yes bro, corrected it.

 

[Krocco]

Ive had the passing thought of twice per day injections but never found a reason to really go that way, would take some dedication to stick yourself twice a day every day.

I guess it would be worth trying for some period of time.. daily blow with prop seems to get me up too high and too much drop till the night.. low shbg makes things difficuld sometimes..

 

[Gman86]

Yes bro, corrected it.

It’s still not correct lol. But we obviously get what you’re trying to say. You were on 25mg EOD, not 0.25mg EOD.

 

[Cataceous]

I guess it would be worth trying for some period of time.. daily blow with prop seems to get me up too high and too much drop till the night.. low shbg makes things difficuld sometimes..

SHBG does not affect the apparent half-life of testosterone esters. In addition, the data on propionate suggest that daily injections probably provide fairly constant serum testosterone. See earlier in this thread for data from one patient.

 

[Vince Carter]

I think with low SHBG you tend to piss out before the half-life actually comes in to play.

 

[Vince Carter]

SHBG does not affect the apparent half-life of testosterone esters. In addition, the data on propionate suggest that daily injections probably provide fairly constant serum testosterone. See earlier in this thread for data from one patient.

I ran a 28hr sampling period (with Cyp) and "fairly constant" what not what I saw between 8/12/28hr intervals...was an absolute low point and a peak that was rather pronounced esp with my Estrogen.

 

[Krocco]

SHBG does not affect the apparent half-life of testosterone esters. In addition, the data on propionate suggest that daily injections probably provide fairly constant serum testosterone. See earlier in this thread for data from one patient.

I don't know about that particular patient and that study. I was not involved so that study means nothing to me.
My personal feel how daily propionate feals and works is more meaningful how I determine its capacity, and protocols usefulness.

 

[Gman86]

I don't know about that particular patient and that study. I was not involved so that study means nothing to me.
My personal feel how daily propionate feals and works is more meaningful how I determine its capacity, and protocols usefulness.

Exactly. Cataceous is most likely right with what he’s saying, but it still doesn’t change the fact that low SHBG guys will have a faster peak and trough, no matter what the esther, and high SHBG guys will have a longer peak and trough, regardless of the esther.

 

[Cataceous]

I think with low SHBG you tend to piss out before the half-life actually comes in to play.

That's a non sequitur. If you measure the rate that serum testosterone is dropping then you're measuring the apparent half-life. Given the time constants involved, you can't "piss it out" faster than you absorb it. The rate of absorption controls the process; it sets the steady state free testosterone level, which along with SHBG determines where total testosterone ends up.

 

[Cataceous]

... it still doesn’t change the fact that low SHBG guys will have a faster peak and trough, no matter what the esther, and high SHBG guys will have a longer peak and trough, regardless of the esther.

Once again: there's no evidence for this and no plausible mechanism for SHBG to set the serum half-life, which is implied by the terms "faster" and "longer". Instead, think "larger" and "smaller". The high SHBG guy has higher total testosterone for the same dose, while the low SHBG guy has lower total testosterone. Repeating an earlier illustration: take a guy with high SHBG on TRT, with peak serum testosterone of 1,000 ng/dL and trough of 500. Suddenly, drop his SHBG and change nothing else. What happens? Answer: both peak and trough levels drop in proportion, e.g. to 500 and 250 respectively. Critically, free testosterone remains the same, because it's controlled by the TRT dose, which doesn't change.

 

[Gman86]

Once again: there's no evidence for this and no plausible mechanism for SHBG to set the serum half-life, which is implied by the terms "faster" and "longer". Instead, think "larger" and "smaller". The high SHBG guy has higher total testosterone for the same dose, while the low SHBG guy has lower total testosterone. Repeating an earlier illustration: take a guy with high SHBG on TRT, with peak serum testosterone of 1,000 ng/dL and trough of 500. Suddenly, drop his SHBG and change nothing else. What happens? Answer: both peak and trough levels drop in proportion, e.g. to 500 and 250 respectively. Critically, free testosterone remains the same, because it's controlled by the TRT dose, which doesn't change.

You don’t think there’s a possibility of low SHBG guys reaching the same total T as a high SHBG that’s on the same dose, but the low SHBG’s levels just fall faster and say after 3 days has a lower Total T level than the high SHBG guy?

 

[Vince Carter]

Exactly. Cataceous is most likely right with what he’s saying, but it still doesn’t change the fact that low SHBG guys will have a faster peak and trough, no matter what the esther, and high SHBG guys will have a longer peak and trough, regardless of the esther.

I didn't see a rise for 12hrs, peak was 24-28hrs on 16mg/D Cyp. I fully expected to see a peak much sooner than I did. At 8 hours post inj I was still dropping.