Injecting Testosterone Propionate on a Daily Basis

[MikeXL]

Will, you said that with daily admin of test that the half life and pharmacokinetics make daily cyp or enanth illogical. I take this to mean that you are noting that the injection frequency and half life are inconsistent. But what is it about that that is bad? Thanks

If someone is intent on doing daily IM/sub Q of T, it makes little sense to use anything but prop. The half life and pharmacokinetics make daily cyp or enanth illogical. 2-3 times per week max with cyp/enanth.

The differences in pharmacokinetics between prop and cyp/enanth might explain some of the effects and I'd expect cyp/enanth used daily to see bother higher TT and E2 all things being equal, but there's scant data there.

Never listen to anything you read on steroids forums where people are discussing (usually anecdotal) effects of steroid stacks. It will only add confusion and disinformation and is a different animal to legit TRT/HRT.

Per usual, if you feel good on that schedule and essential health metrics in line, drive on

- Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

 

[Will Brink]

Will, you said that with daily admin of test that the half life and pharmacokinetics make daily cyp or enanth illogical. I take this to mean that you are noting that the injection frequency and half life are inconsistent. But what is it about that that is bad? Thanks

Note I didn't say bad, I said illogical. If doing a daily shot, a fast acting ester makes more sense in my view. Might even do a better job of matching normal T levels throughout the day/week. People seem overly concerned with steady state levels but the body never actually in a steady state for T, so as long as the high/low stay within physiological ranges, I don't get too concerned. Personally, I want injection frequency as few as possible, and the human pin cushion thing has potential drawbacks, but obviously many feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks/risks (which are admittedly low) of daily injections. At this time, I think the "sweet spot" in terms of levels vs frequency probably 2x per week using cyp/E esters, but I still think most actually do fine on 1x per week, which I know is almost sacrilegious to say here.

Subjectively, have to balance how people feel combined with labs, and if some feel better on 2x per week or more smaller dose per week, I advise them to keep doing what works for them.

People here are very dedicated and willing to get what they feel optimal for them, but perfection often the enemy of good enough and getting people to commit to weekly schedule.

 

[Krocco]

Just bringing my experiences to this thread..
I have used following methods:
Sustanon'250 @ 50mg eod
Sustanon'250 @ 25mg ed
Propionate @ 25mg ed
Propionate @ 20mg ed

As far as 25mg os sust actually has less real test in it, 17,6mg to be a exact.. and prop 25mg has 20,75mg real test..

Daily 25mg sust- injections blowed my estradiol really high. Eaven higher than 50mg sust eod protocol.
50mg sust eod i used 0.125mg anastrozole eod and it was fine.
25mg sust ed i needed 0.25mg anastrozole ed to keep symptoms off..

With 20-25mg ed propionate I dont need AI at all... dont have the labs here but I know when I have symptoms and when I dont..

 

[BillyJ03z]

Just to throw my .02 in on this prop discussion....

I recently switched to PROP ED SubQ due to my low SHBG...

Previous to using Prop I was on Test Cyp 3xWk MWF @ 40mg/IM (120mg/wk total) and .25mg AI 3x/wk...... and the following was my blood work 24hrs after monday injection *labcorp (I should have waited to draw blood on Wed (48hrs after) before my next shot)
Total Test-643
Free Test- 23.3
E2- <20 (my e2 was lower than 20, I was only on AI due to my E2 skyrocketing from DHEA supplementing as I had no E2 issues prior)
SHBG- 21.10 (13.30-8.50)

I now have been on 5 weeks of Test Prop @ 20mg/ed/SQ inject (140mg wk/total)... no AI... **

Blood work was drawn 24hrs/next day after injection) *labcorp
Total Test- 468 (198-679)
Free Test- 16.2 (6.8-21.5)
E2- 20 (20-53)
SHBG- 22 (SHBG was drawn a week later)

Doctor wants to increase Test Prop to 25mg or 30mg/ED due to my low SHBG and wants to see my numbers TT and FT a little higher 24hrs after inject.... So I am bumping up to 30mg Prop ED.....

The only drawback I have with Test Prop ED SubQ is the stinging, frequent small lumps from the the SQ injections. Injecting SQ daily is so much easier than IM and I have no issues doing this forever.. its just the annoying sting, small lumps from the prop... I do remember back in the day when I used Prop from UGL for cycles I would add extra GSO in the syringe and that would extremely lessen the sting of Prop but that was when I was doing IM injects so I will try that again and hopefully it works for SQ...

 

[BillyJ03z]

Does anyone know what oil Empower uses for their Test Prop?

 

[Jason Sypolt]

It was grapeseed when I was on it. I was told they do something to balance the PH level and that’s why Empower’s Prop doesn’t sting.

I forgot about this thread and should have updated it, so I will do it now. I think that ultimately being on Prop with low SHBG isn’t the best thing to do. You get a great feeling at first, but your T levels are so low because it metabolizes too quickly. It isn’t really going to matter how much you inject because being low SHBG it is not a problem of amount, but a problem of time. Think going from weekly to daily injections using T Cyp, but on a much smaller scale with Prop because of the fast eater. It was in and out for me in a matter of 6-7 hours and a sort of daily roller coaster developed after many months of use. I preferred the stability of a long ester much more.

 

[BillyJ03z]

It was grapeseed when I was on it. I was told they do something to balance the PH level and that’s why Empower’s Prop doesn’t sting.

I forgot about this thread and should have updated it, so I will do it now. I think that ultimately being on Prop with low SHBG isn’t the best thing to do. You get a great feeling at first, but your T levels are so low because it metabolizes too quickly. It isn’t really going to matter how much you inject because being low SHBG it is not a problem of amount, but a problem of time. Think going from weekly to daily injections using T Cyp, but on a much smaller scale with Prop because of the fast eater. It was in and out for me in a matter of 6-7 hours and a sort of daily roller coaster developed after many months of use. I preferred the stability of a long ester much more.

I felt good using Test Cyp @40mg eod but I don't care for the extra water retention that comes with using CYP.... I may look into using Enth..

Now for me using Prop my bloodwork didn't look bad at all after 24hrs using 20mg/ed/sq (actually almost ideal for avg normal natural levels)... Im going to run prop 30mg/ed/sq for the next month and see how it goes and see how SHBG and E2 react... if not ideal then I will look to trying Enth ed sq....

 

[Jason Sypolt]

I felt good using Test Cyp @40mg eod but I don't care for the extra water retention that comes with using CYP.... I may look into using Enth..

Now for me using Prop my bloodwork didn't look bad at all after 24hrs using 20mg/ed/sq... Im going to run prop 30mg/ed/sq for the next month and see how it goes and see how SHBG and E2 react... if not ideal then I will look to trying Enth ed sq....

You may also want to consider talking to your doctor about switching to and/or supplementing injections with high-powered compounded cream. When applied to the scrotum, it will raise DHT and it made all the difference for me personally.

 

[blackebob]

You may also want to consider talking to your doctor about switching to and/or supplementing injections with high-powered compounded cream. When applied to the scrotum, it will raise DHT and it made all the difference for me personally.

Are you talking Testoserone cream, what dosage,or?

 

[ccnowick]

You may also want to consider talking to your doctor about switching to and/or supplementing injections with high-powered compounded cream. When applied to the scrotum, it will raise DHT and it made all the difference for me personally.

So Jason what is your protocol with the cream and what is the strength of the cream?

 

[Vince Carter]

So Jason what is your protocol with the cream and what is the strength of the cream?

@Jason Sypolt

 

[S1W]

You may also want to consider talking to your doctor about switching to and/or supplementing injections with high-powered compounded cream. When applied to the scrotum, it will raise DHT and it made all the difference for me personally.

So Jason what is your protocol with the cream and what is the strength of the cream?

Bumping this question - interested to hear @Jason Sypolt 's response.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

@Jason Sypolt

2 clicks of 5% cream every morning applied to scrotum. Then T Cyp at night. I have actually recently started injecting less frequently, going every 3 days instead of daily, but that should be a new thread.

 

[SSHSSA74]

Does T Prop raise DHT more than cyp and enan since it releases into the system faster?

 

[Vince]

Does T Prop raise DHT more than cyp and enan since it releases into the system faster?

No but using scrotum cream will.

 

[SSHSSA74]

No but using scrotum cream will.

thank you

 

[DaveK22]

Using the search feature and resurrecting this old thread.

Just curious if there has been any final consensus on using T Prop for Daily Sub-q? I read (over multiple threads) some compelling arguments for & against it.

One possible positive is the short ester helps mimic the body's natural test circadian rhythm...possibly having a positive effect on the androgen receptor. However, could a bigger daily delta in the trough & peak levels effect HCT negatively as compared to enthanate or cypionate?

Again, this is all specific to DAILY SUB-Q only.

*EDIT* after posting this I found a related thread...about 8 pages. No need to keep this thread going as much has been already discussed. Thx

 

[ASCZTH]

If someone is intent on doing daily IM/sub Q of T, it makes little sense to use anything but prop. The half life and pharmacokinetics make daily cyp or enanth illogical. 2-3 times per week max with cyp/enanth.

The differences in pharmacokinetics between prop and cyp/enanth might explain some of the effects and I'd expect cyp/enanth used daily to see bother higher TT and E2 all things being equal, but there's scant data there.

Never listen to anything you read on steroids forums where people are discussing (usually anecdotal) effects of steroid stacks. It will only add confusion and disinformation and is a different animal to legit TRT/HRT.

Per usual, if you feel good on that schedule and essential health metrics in line, drive on

- Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

That would explain why my E2 spikes. I am doing everyday injections with test cyp. I want to switch to test prop. I can’t figure out how much ai I need and am tired of guessing due to low SHBG.

 

[stx359]

Interesting old thread. It looks like this was deemed an ineffective protocol for men with low SHBG. Conversely, for myself, a high SHBG guy (typically in the 40's) daily prop cured every issue I had with test cyp, which I tried weekly, twice weekly and daily. I dealt with terrible acne, sleep issues and chronically high HCT requiring monthly blood donations resulting in chronically low iron. I've been on daily prop for two and a half years, anywhere from 10 to 20 mg a day - currently been on 20 mg for a year - and now have zero issues with sleep or acne and haven't had a hematocrit requiring blood donation since I started using daily prop two and a half years ago.

 

[ASCZTH]

Interesting old thread. It looks like this was deemed an ineffective protocol for men with low SHBG. Conversely, for myself, a high SHBG guy (typically in the 40's) daily prop cured every issue I had with test cyp, which I tried weekly, twice weekly and daily. I dealt with terrible acne, sleep issues and chronically high HCT requiring monthly blood donations resulting in chronically low iron. I've been on daily prop for two and a half years, anywhere from 10 to 20 mg a day - currently been on 20 mg for a year - and now have zero issues with sleep or acne and haven't had a hematocrit requiring blood donation since I started using daily prop two and a half years ago.

This is my hope. I really want to switch over. I had just crashed my E2 and now I have high E2 symptoms. I am getting bloodwork on Monday to see what my E2 is actually at. I am not having a good time with cyp.