My daily Testosterone Propionate diary

[Vince]

Testosterone levels will peak 24-48 hrs post injection and I would say peak is closer to 24 hrs. In a perfect world.

 

[Alive]

Testosterone levels will peak 24-48 hrs post injection and I would say peak is closer to 24 hrs. In a perfect world.

Isn't that for cypionate? I've noticed that I feel so tired when I wake up in the morning. Can it be because I inject in the morning everyday and my levels may be low after 24 hours?

 

[Vince Carter]

too many variables...SHBG, injection dose and frequency, the ester being used, etc etc

Isn't that for cypionate? I've noticed that I feel so tired when I wake up in the morning. Can it be because I inject in the morning everyday and my levels may be low after 24 hours?

Like I said.

 

[equel]

I tried prop EOD, injecting in the morning. Within 60 minutes of injecting, I could "feel it", energy etc. However, I only felt great for that day, the day after not so great and on the evening the day after I was VERY tired and worn out.

Then the next morning when injecting again, felt great after 1 hour.

EOD did not work for me.


Also one very interesting thing:

When I had been on cyp 50mg two times a week, total of 100, then switched to prop, I tried out 50mg EOD to start with.

After my very first 50mg prop injection, within a couple of hours I felt REALLY REALLY good, super high energy and almost extreme manic confidence, girls did notice aswell I sensed that shit lol.

That went along for 3 shots, but after the 3rd one, the energy started dropping ..

Then eventually I tried 30mg, and then eventually back to cyp again.

Can someone explain to me what happened those 3 50mg shots of prop before it went away? Did I hit some perfect level of testosterone to estrogen or something? Cause I felt almost godlike.

 

[S1W]

[QUOTE="equel, post: 131526, member: ] Can someone explain to me what happened those 3 50mg shots of prop before it went away? Did I hit some perfect level of testosterone to estrogen or something? Cause I felt almost godlike.[/QUOTE]

I can’t say for sure, but I have been told that there is a dopamine response to a sudden introduction, or in your case sudden increase, of exogenous testosterone. The dopamine response was part of the explanation my doc gave me for what is commonly called the “honeymoon period” when guys first start TRT.

 

[ccnowick]

This is a very interesting thread, VC. I just switched to Prop myself and I'm also experimenting with things. The first two weeks I tried 25mg of TProp ED only. I stopped taking my AI and also my HCG so that I could see how things felt. I know I still had some of the Cyp ester in me, so the first week was a bit odd and felt my estradiol levels elevated. I don't know for sure if they were, but just going based on feeling and symptoms. During that week, I decided to take an AI EOD at .25mg of Anastrozole. That helped that out.

During the second week, I started feeling more energy throughout the day and less estradiol elevated symptoms. That week I only had to take my Anastrozole once the entire week (early on in the week).

I'm in my third week now and I guess I got too anxious. Considering it was a shorter ester, I decided to modify my protocol to 20mg ED instead of the 25mg ED. Now, I know I should have just kept going with 25mg ED for another 2-3 weeks to let everything settle out, but I'm actually feeling much, much better now. My libido is up tremendously, my night wood is through the roof for 4 days straight (no punn intended), and I'm feeling more energy throughout the day and not feeling tired in the evenings as much like I used to before on Cyp. I also haven't had a need to take my AI either.

Sorry, VC, not trying to jack your thread but it would be interesting to see how you fare with your switch. Just wanted to share my experiences so far and I am VERY pleased with the switch.

Oh, one more thing, there is no pain or discomfort with the injections as others have mentioned before. It's actually a little easier, in my opinion, since it's not as oily as Cyp and not as thick to push through.

do you do sub q or IM injections?

 

[trt reznor]

It may be a good idea, that in the future if you ever feel super in-the-zone like that, to run out and get a blood test done. Just for future comparison. I think a lot of people miss the oppurtunity to see what dialed-in (subjective in itself), looks like on paper.

I think what is considered the "honeymoon period", may have a lot to do with the fact that you are adding exogenous hormones on top of your non-supressed hormonal system. As your treatment continues, and your HPTA becomes supressed, your internal levels change and balance out, which can put you further away from those initial great feelings. I don't think it's impossible to get back to that feeling, you just have to put in some work and research, like many of us are doing here.

equel, my best guess is that you may have been experiencing some supra physiological levels that eventually brought up your estradiol to balance it out. That's only my best guess, hard to know for sure without the labs.

 

[Alive]

I must have done something wrong recently as my T level has dropped and I feel so bad. I've put on weight too. Apart from supplements what has changed is

1-Injecting everyday
2-Using 28g instead of the usual 25g

Dr told me injecting ED gives you smaller peaks compared to EOD (because you're injecting a smaller amount). So I may go back to EOD when I felt better. Increased the dose to 15mg/day.

I'm tempted by mixing prop and cyp together to achieve more stability.

 

[Alive]

I found this plot taken from a research paper.

I know that your levels depend on a number of things but if we take this plot as a model, your level peaks about 12 hours after injection and stays high for 12 hours more. But then it drops fast.
Given this injecting at night may be a better idea. And of course ED seems better than EOD. Given that my blood level was low 24 hours after injecting 12.5 mg, and that I still don't feel well on 30mg EOD, I'm thinking of increasing the dose to 17.5 or even 20mg every night.

 

[Cataceous]

The research paper is Pharmacokinetic Studies of Testosterone Propionate Using Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry/Selected Ion Monitoring, from 1988. There were two subjects, with somewhat different-looking results. The open circles show the exogenous testosterone concentrations:

Keep in mind that you need to repeat and sum these curves every 24 hours to get an idea of what steady-state looks like. I expect this would put the peaks at 12 hours post-injection or less. I will try to do this when I have time.

 

[madman]

I found this plot taken from a research paper.
View attachment 7118

I know that your levels depend on a number of things but if we take this plot as a model, your level peaks about 12 hours after injection and stays high for 12 hours more. But then it drops fast.
Given this injecting at night may be a better idea. And of course ED seems better than EOD. Given that my blood level was low 24 hours after injecting 12.5 mg, and that I still don't feel well on 30mg EOD, I'm thinking of increasing the dose to 17.5 or even 20mg every night.

New thoughts on AI

It was from this study: Pharmacokinetic Properties of Testosterone Propionate in Normal Men (1986)



It was from this study

 

[Cataceous]

New thoughts on AI

It was from this study: Pharmacokinetic Properties of Testosterone Propionate in Normal Men (1986)

It was from this study

The two papers are virtually the same. Evidently in 1988 the authors renamed and republished the 1986 version, with minor changes.

 

[seb288]

The research paper is Pharmacokinetic Studies of Testosterone Propionate Using Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry/Selected Ion Monitoring, from 1988. There were two subjects, with somewhat different-looking results. The open circles show the exogenous testosterone concentrations:

View attachment 7122
Keep in mind that you need to repeat and sum these curves every 24 hours to get an idea of what steady-state looks like. I expect this would put the peaks at 12 hours post-injection or less. I will try to do this when I have time.

Please try repeating and summing each graph separately. I'll try doing the same, but not sure what program to use. I think nightly prop injections are the best protocol due to mimicry of natural diurnal variation in young men, but a graph will show if we'd need to add a slower ester to maintain levels at trough.

 

[Cataceous]

Please try repeating and summing each graph separately. I'll try doing the same, but not sure what program to use. I think nightly prop injections are the best protocol due to mimicry of natural diurnal variation in young men, but a graph will show if we'd need to add a slower ester to maintain levels at trough.

Quite the coincidence that I just did this for the first one before I checked in. Here it is:

I assumed an exponential decay on the tail and went out for a couple more days. I have to say these results are pretty disappointing. They suggest that we are not getting much diurnal variation even with propionate. I've speculated before that T acetate might be better.

 

[BillyJ03z]

Isn't that for cypionate? I've noticed that I feel so tired when I wake up in the morning. Can it be because I inject in the morning everyday and my levels may be low after 24 hours?

Ive noticed that too.. no matter how much sleep I get I still wake up wiped out.... and I actually start to feel better towards the evening/night time but I cant work out in the evening because It will keep me awake and I already have problems falling asleep... smdh

 

[BillyJ03z]

I apologize if I posted this info earlier but this is to give everyone an idea of Cyp to Prop after 24hours.....

**For about 6 months I was on Test Cyp 3xWk MWF @ 40mg/IM (120mg/wk total - not injecting Sundays) and .25mg AI 3x/wk...... and the following was my blood work 24hrs after monday injection of Test Cyp @ 40mg IM *labcorp (the plan was to inject Mon, check blood 24h and 48hr to see the clearance, peak, trough rate... I didn't get 48hr checked for some reason)

Total Test-643
Free Test- 23.3
E2- <20 (my e2 was lower than 20, I was AI .25 3x wk)
SHBG- 21.10 (13.30-8.50)

**Approx 5 - 6 weeks of Test Prop @ 20mg/ed/SQ inject (140mg wk/total)... no AI... Injected at 8am **

Blood work was drawn 24hrs/next day @ 8am after injection) *labcorp

Total Test- 468 (198-679)
Free Test- 16.2 (6.8-21.5)
E2- 20 (20-53)
SHBG- 22

I actually liked the Prop and I will say that on Test Prop I did feel stronger and little more energetic.... but I discontinued because of the lingering PIP and painful injection spots that would linger for days...

 

[Alive]

Quite the coincidence that I just did this for the first one before I checked in. Here it is:View attachment 7479
I assumed an exponential decay on the tail and went out for a couple more days. I have to say these results are pretty disappointing. They suggest that we are not getting much diurnal variation even with propionate. I've speculated before that T acetate might be better.

This is very interesting and may suggest that injecting EOD is a better option. Coincidentally that's what I just started doing, again.

 

[Cataceous]

This is very interesting and may suggest that injecting EOD is a better option. Coincidentally that's what I just started doing, again.

I ran EOD on the same numbers:

Basically you have a high day followed by a low day. Given that the high day has serum levels about three times that of the low day, I have my doubts about this protocol. I think it's better to simulate diurnal variation by injecting say 2/3 the normal dose of cypionate or enanthate every two or three days—to establish a steady base level, and then take the remaining 1/3 of the dose daily in the form of something short-acting, such as a transdermal or ester-less T (TNE) injection.

 

[Alive]

Or possibly injecting prop every 36 hours.
Thanks for sharing. Did you use the plot for total T or the exogenous T? (The latter is not important IMO.)

 

[Cataceous]

... Did you use the plot for total T or the exogenous T? (The latter is not important IMO.)

This plot is of the radio-labeled exogenous testosterone, which is what's important when on TRT; endogenous testosterone would be suppressed. The radio-labeled propionate concentration is interesting, but not essential.