Injectable Progesterone SC may not be the best route of administration

[Jim Marlowe]

It’s the opposite my friend. Go checkout lifelong carnivores. U’d be hard pressed to find people in their 80’s and 90’s with more energy, and that are more metabolically healthy, than lifelong carnivores. I actually challenge u to find me a person that’s doing carnivore, or the lion diet, that are not metabolically healthy, and don’t have more energy than they had prior to going carnivore or doing the lion diet. At the end of the day, most important metric is what people are experiencing in the real world. Not theoretically what “should” happen, and not what a person should feel with certain lab levels. Would it make sense for a person on carnivore or the lion diet, with very high and consistent energy levels throughout the entire day, that is able to retain muscle easily, and lose fat easily, give up the way their eating because their thyroid labs might be a little lower? Or should they continue eating the way they are, and continuing to feel and function optimally? Sometimes we have to keep things simple, in order to see what’s truly going on. Go ask any person doing a carnivore or lion diet correctly if they feel hypothyroid, and then report back to me when u find even one person that reports having hypothyroid symptoms. I’ll wait lol.

Paul Saladino ate carnivore and switched to a bioenergetic diet for the same reason I did. "Correctly" means anyone who does the diet, but does not get the results you expect didn't do it correctly. That's a rhetorical trick. I don't think you understand that you can eat Lion, Carnivore, or Keto, and keep inflammation low and avoid insulin resistance. Those things are all true. But it doesn't mean it's the most metabolically efficient method of eating.

 

[Gman86]

Paul Saladino ate carnivore and switched to a bioenergetic diet for the same reason I did. "Correctly" means anyone who does the diet, but does not get the results you expect didn't do it correctly. That's a rhetorical trick. I don't think you understand that you can eat Lion, Carnivore, or Keto, and keep inflammation low and avoid insulin resistance. Those things are all true. But it doesn't mean it's the most metabolically efficient method of eating.

everyone’s goals in life are different. At the end of the day, everyone should eat whichever way suits their goals and lifestyle in a way that leads to them having the most happiness in life that they can have. Adding carbs back in clearly makes Paul happier, and allows him to better fulfill all his athletic goals, like surfing for hours each day. It seems to work better for him, personally. I would assume he would have gone back to strict carnivore already if it didn’t.

At the end of the day, all I can speak about is what I see, and what makes sense, based on evolution, our biology, and anecdotes of what most people are experiencing. If anyone takes the time to truly study how our ancestors ate, for the vast majority of our evolution, u would understand that our ancestors were in a state of ketosis, for most of our evolution. And if anyone would take the time to study human biology, u would understand why the majority of people that try carnivore, or the lion diet, are experiencing the amazing results/ benefits that they are. And then all the personal anecdotes u can find, of people doing either carnivore, or the lion diet, and experiencing positive effects, basically speak for themselves, while also backing up why these ways of eating are optimal, if optimal health is the goal. Now if bodybuilding is the goal, the lion diet and/ or carnivore might not be ideal. But as far as optimal health goes, nothing even comes close to following a carnivore and/ or lion diet. This can be seen over and over through all the anecdotes that are available to read/ listen to out there. I’ve seen numerous anecdotes of people resolving most, if not all of their ALS symptoms, most, if not all of their bipolar symptoms, most, if not all of their lupus symptoms, most, if not all of their MS symptoms, by following either the carnivore or lion diet. I’ve seen the carnivore and/ or lion diet completely cure IBS, Crohn’s disease, severe depression, severe anxiety, and/ or put their cancer in remission. The thing is tho, that I’ve never seen someone do better, with any of the conditions listed above, while doing the carnivore diet plus carbs. All I’ve ever seen, is people report that most of the time, when they add carbs back in, the symptom resolution that they experienced doing strict carnivore and/ or lion diet, end up coming back, to a degree. This is just what I’ve seen over and over. And like I’ve said, if anyone truly does the research, on how our ancestors ate, for millions of years, and how our biology responds, when consuming a carnivore and/ or lion diet, they’ll understand why people, for the most part, are experiencing the positive results that they are, and also why some people see their conditions regressing again, when doing something as simple as adding carbs back in, or even adding spices back in

 

[Gman86]

In this case it means that when a sufficient amount is available then it will be used preferentially. Contrary to your implication, glucose is so important that ketosis is maintained through evolution to prevent excessive depletion of glucose. Ketosis is an emergency backup system, not the preferred one.

From my understanding, and how it’s been for 99.99% of our evolution, is glucose has been the backup/ alternative fuel source, and isn’t as healthy of a fuel source for all the functions of the body, as ketones are, almost like a dirty fuel source, if u will, so the body tries to use the glucose up/ burn it/ get rid of it as quick as possible, once ingested, and preferably get back to using ketones as a fuel source, as soon as possible

The psychophysiological and metabolic milieu that triggers the secretion of ketone bodies includes (i) starvation; (ii) severe injuries; (iii) acute infections or viral illnesses [89] (iv) physical exhaustion, and (v) in the presence of harsh ecological stressors.[R]​

You’re proving my point, not urs. This clearly shows that ketones are more beneficial for the body, and have better healing properties than glucose does. That’s amazing that ketones can help in all these situations.

But there is obv a difference between the body secreting ketones, vs being in ketosis and using ketones as a fuel source. Obv nobody is going into ketosis and using ketones as a fuel source simply because they’re physically exhausted, or because they’ve had an injury, or illness, or have an infection, etc. People do go into ketosis, when “starving” and going a long time without food, however. The body will start to breakdown fat, and turn it into ketones for the body to use as fuel.

Evidence, please. If ketosis were clearly superior from an evolutionary standpoint then it would be preferred even when glucose is plentiful. This is clearly not the case.

Again, ketones are the superior fuel source for the body, if u simply look at what ketones do for the brain, organs, mitochondria, and every cell in the body, vs what glucose does to all these parts of the human body, it’s not even close, in regards to how beneficial ketones are, vs what glucose does. Human biology is human biology, and it’s not going to change any time soon. Plus just look at anecdotes from thousands of people that used to eat the hefty majority of their calories from carbs, and then decided to do carnivore or the lion diet. Simply see what they report, as far as how well their brains work, how high their energy levels are, how good their sexual function is, how easy it is to retain muscle and keep fat off, and just how well their bodies function as a whole, on moderate to high fat and protein diets, like carnivore and the lion diet, compared to when they consumed a diet that primarily consisted of carbs. We can do all the research we want, but at the end of the day, the best thing we can do is listen to our bodies, and if everything within it is functioning optimally, on a long and consistent basis, whatever foods ur consuming are probably what is best for it

I'd also like to see evidence that ketones are "preferred" in a normal heart rather than a diseased one.

During heart failure, the heart undergoes a metabolic switch favoring ketone metabolism in cardiomyocytes, which are more efficiently used than in the normal heart. Moreover, ketone body oxidation is a more efficient energy substrate than terminal fatty acid oxidation [88]. Significant improvement in the cardiac output of about 24% was observed after ketone infusion in both chronic heart failure patients and animal models with heart failure [84,89].[R]​

Come on man, use a little common sense/ critical thinking skills here. If ketones have these amazing effects on a compromised heart, isn’t it obvious that ketones would be just as beneficial for a healthy heart, as far as optimizing it goes? U think ketones just have these amazing properties to heal/ improve the function of a compromised heart, but then glucose is more beneficial for a non-compromised heart? Again, use just a little bit of critical thinking skills/ common sense here

I figured that article would trigger you. But if you want to be taken seriously yourself then support some of your statements. You haven't tried to qualify your statements about ketones being preferred, so they cannot be given much credence.

The various references say that the long-term safety of a ketogenic diet is not established. You're free to speculate that it is safe, but I am likewise free to suggest that using an emergency backup system indefinitely may not be a good idea....

I agree, I don’t think using a backup fuel source is ideal long term, or even short term. If humans did this, we most likely would never have survived for as long as we have, and went extinct a long time ago due to various diseases that we’re experiencing currently. Ketones have been the primary fuel source for millions of years. Glucose has always been the backup fuel source, up until around 8-12k years ago, where it became more common for carbs/ glucose to be the fuel source most people chose to run their bodies with.

I honestly don’t need to backup any of my statements. Evolution does that for me. Thousands of anecdotes of people doing drastically better, health wise, on carnivore and/ or the lion diet do that for me, biology 101 does that for me. The facts are all there already. I’m simply just trying to point people in the right direction so they can hopefully do the research for themselves. The more research people do into this subject, the more they’ll realize that carbs are not necessary for optimal health. There’s a reason why fats and proteins are essential, and carbs are not.

How could glucose be our optimal fuel source, when carbs aren’t even essential?? This alone proves that ketones are, and have been for the majority of our evolution, the main/ optimal/ primary fuel source for the human body

You should not be promulgating this bit of misinformation. It is a myth.

Each 100 mL of breast milk (produced within this time frame) yields approximately ​

• 65 calories
• 6.7 g carbohydrates (primarily lactose)
• 3.8 g fat
• 1.3 g protein

[R]

Yes, breast milk has carbs in it. But the majority of the calories still come from fats. Ironically enough, in the second link, they reference a Raypeat forum post to go over babies being in ketosis while breastfeeding. This discussion has come full circle lol

Ketosis - key to human babies’ big brains?

Prof Noakes is on trial for ‘advising’ a mom to wean her baby onto low carb, high fat foods. Could babies’ innate ketosis – a state more often associated with low-carb, high-fat diets - be an arrow in Prof Noakes’ defence’s quiver?

realmealrevolution.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1rkrd2/neonatal_ketosis

 

[Jim Marlowe]

Not trying to win any debates, but for the thread and posterity, here is a time-stamped link to Jay Feldman in a recent interview giving the bioenergetic explanation of the energy benefits of glucose metabolism for the brain.

 

[Jim Marlowe]

I'm not going to keep doing this, but here is Georgi Dinkov (timestamped) discussing his self-funded research regarding pro-metabolic treatment of cancer in mice. Again, from the "bioenergetic" perspective, Georgi talks about lipolysis in cancer metabolism, the similarity between Type 1 Diabetes and cancer, and the potential benefits of using Vitamins B1 (thiamin), B3 (niacinamide), and B7 (biotin) for cancer. He also discusses aspirin and 2,6 dihydroxybenzoic acid in cancer treatment as positively affecting Ph levels. CO2 is also noted for increasing acidity. The theoretical benefit in the context of cancer is that this stops the blocking of apoptosis in cancer cells.
I simply keep an open mind about this, and I am not asserting that the bioenergetic view is 100% correct.

I will say, however, that this view favors increasing production of CO2 to improve mitochondrial function and disfavors emphasis on increasing nitric oxide, which is viewed from the bioenergetic approach as an "emergency" vasodilator.

 

[Gianluca]

@Jim Marlowe have you ever tried the StressNon from Idealabs, the Pregnenolone dissolved in DMSO?

 

[Jim Marlowe]

@Jim Marlowe have you ever tried the StressNon from Idealabs, the Pregnenolone dissolved in DMSO?

No. I have used Magnoil, which is magnesium (either L-pidolate or sulfate) and DMSO. It works great. However, I understand in recent years there have been reassessments about the use of DMSO in compounds. I know some people experience skin irritation, but I've never had that happen. I am not up to speed on what the more recent specific concerns are.

 

[Gianluca]

Quick update on the Progesterone dissolved in Vitamin E trial.

two weeks after applying a drop (3mg) on my gums, it did not raise my Progesterone serum. However, I do feel it.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Quick update on the Progesterone dissolved in Vitamin E trial.

two weeks after applying a drop (3mg) on my gums, it did not raise my Progesterone serum. However, I do feel it.

Maybe it metabolized quickly into other things like allopregnanolone?

 

[Gman86]

Quick update on the Progesterone dissolved in Vitamin E trial.

two weeks after applying a drop (3mg) on my gums, it did not raise my Progesterone serum. However, I do feel it.

In which ways do u feel it? How is it compared to injectable prog, good or bad?

 

[Gianluca]

Maybe it metabolized quickly into other things like allopregnanolone?

I don’t think so. Prog in vitamin E, especially when applied to the gums, will bypass first pass in the liver, like an injection.

Pro itself has a very short half life in the blood though, but I heard Georgi Dinkov and Mercola saying that because Vit E has about 44hr half life, Pro when dissolved in it, will also have same half life because it is not cleaved from the Vit E in the blood. Perhaps this isn’t true.

With the injectable I wasn’t also able to raise Pro serum as well, maybe it is just something with me and Pro.

 

[Gianluca]

In which ways do u feel it? How is it compared to injectable prog, good or bad?

I don’t have the side effects I was experiencing with the injectable.

This, as soon as I take it, it really feels calming and soon after when I go to bed I really lay down very still in bed, it is the first Pro I’m using that help me to get to sleep.

Some good and bad side effects during the day: skin looks better, more youthful, I often have a sense of euforia like, I may have no filter talking to people, first thing poops into my mind I say it without overthinking, everything is possible/I do what I want sort of a feeling. I feel stronger at the gym, more physical and mental energy.

Often during the first part of the morning a sense of doom/gloom almost like low cortisol, moving slow a bit drugged, not fun. Later feeling kind of wired, but I felt wired with the injectable too, more with this though. And, I have started to experience some hot flash, not sure hot flash in men is low E2 or low Test? Not particular changes in erection/sex drive libido, about the same.

 

[Gman86]

I don’t have the side effects I was experiencing with the injectable.

This, as soon as I take it, it really feels calming and soon after when I go to bed I really lay down very still in bed, it is the first Pro I’m using that help me to get to sleep.

Some good and bad side effects during the day: skin looks better, more youthful, I often have a sense of euforia like, I may have no filter talking to people, first thing poops into my mind I say it without overthinking, everything is possible/I do what I want sort of a feeling. I feel stronger at the gym, more physical and mental energy.

Often during the fist part of the morning a sense of doom/gloom almost like low cortisol, moving slow a bit drugged, not fun. Later feeling kind of wired, but I felt wired with the injectable too, more with this though. And, I have started to experience some hot flash, not sure hot flash in men is low E2 or low Test? Not particular changes in erection/sex drive libido, about the same.

I can only speak for myself, but when I had very low free T, prior to trt, I never experienced any hot flashes. Only time I ever experienced them, and boy did I experience them, is when I took too much Arimidex, and crashed my E2. Legit hot flashes are the most insane thing ever. I empathize with women soooooo much more now, anytime they talk about them lol