Could progesterone use crash estrogen or cause joint pain?

[MNguy]

Hello, for the past 2 weeks I’ve been using progesterone cream, one pump scrotal application per day. Over this weekend I started to notice my joints were achy, felt sort of dry, popping a bit. I’ve actually been feeling pretty good (libido and mentally) but thinking I may have overdone it with the progesterone. I’ve heard that progesterone competes with the estrogen receptor. I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this with progesterone or has anything to add? I originally started the progesterone because labs showed progesterone super low. I’ve been off the progesterone 2 days. Honestly, I’m a bit freaked out. Never had anything like this happen on trt.

Protocol:
3 clicks test cream to body
35 mcg t3
400iu Hcg 2X/week

Last labs: Free T-20, E2-26, progesterone-0.1

 

[Gman86]

It’s too hard to say, imo, without knowing ur current E2 and prog levels. I’m not personally familiar with what dose of scrotal prog cream will result in a rough prog range on labs. I’m only familiar with what a person should roughly expect, lab wise, from certain doses of injectable prog.

What dose is ur prog cream? 20mg per pump?

And ur E2 is already on the low side of normal for a guy on TRT. I would say that in ur case it’s probably possible that the prog is driving ur E2 down into dangerously low territory. But really don’t know where this scrotal prog dose is bringing ur prog levels. Obv if it has shot ur prog levels really high there’s a good chance that level of prog is driving E2 too low. But obv if ur prog dose hasn’t really raised ur prog levels much, it’s doubtful that the prog is lowering ur E2 levels too much and causing ur symptoms. Testing E2 and prog would obv give u the answers ur looking for. But no harm in asking others on the forum in the meantime

 

[Gman86]

Do u happen to know roughly what percentage of ur dose should be absorbed when applied topically to the scrotum? Maybe I can help u more if u or someone else has that info. I know roughly what someone can expect lab wise when taking 1-2mg of injectable prog.

 

[WhatSayYou89]

So am I understanding that correctly that progesterone cream lowers e2 levels?

 

[MNguy]

It’s too hard to say, imo, without knowing ur current E2 and prog levels. I’m not personally familiar with what dose of scrotal prog cream will result in a rough prog range on labs. I’m only familiar with what a person should roughly expect, lab wise, from certain doses of injectable prog.

What dose is ur prog cream? 20mg per pump?

And ur E2 is already on the low side of normal for a guy on TRT. I would say that in ur case it’s probably possible that the prog is driving ur E2 down into dangerously low territory. But really don’t know where this scrotal prog dose is bringing ur prog levels. Obv if it has shot ur prog levels really high there’s a good chance that level of prog is driving E2 too low. But obv if ur prog dose hasn’t really raised ur prog levels much, it’s doubtful that the prog is lowering ur E2 levels too much and causing ur symptoms. Testing E2 and prog would obv give u the answers ur looking for. But no harm in asking others on the forum in the meantime

I agree, getting tested is the only way to know for sure. I won’t have time to run get that done til mid week though. I just thought I’d see if anyone had a similar experience with progesterone. And yep, 20mg/pump. Probably a really high dose, but until this weekend I’ve been feeling pretty good with it. Probably going to dump it for a while and bring it back in a lower dose.

 

[MNguy]

So am I understanding that correctly that progesterone cream lowers e2 levels?

It’s debatable. I’ve read that it can compete with the estrogen receptor, not actually lower it. So in theory it can mitigate some of the effects of estrogen, both good and bad.

 

[MNguy]

Do u happen to know roughly what percentage of ur dose should be absorbed when applied topically to the scrotum? Maybe I can help u more if u or someone else has that info. I know roughly what someone can expect lab wise when taking 1-2mg of injectable prog.

I found something on Wikipedia that said 10%. Not sure how accurate that is?

 

[Gman86]

I found something on Wikipedia that said 10%. Not sure how accurate that is?

Hmm, so 10% would be 2mg. Which has brought my level to 1.6 one time when I was injecting 2mg/ day. Which might be a little bit too high. But it’s so hard to say with ur situation what u have in ur system. I was injecting pharma injectable prog, and was obv injecting it. So not only did I know for sure how many mg’s I was using, I knew that the exact amount I was injecting was the exact amount that was getting in my system

With ur situation ur using OTC prog cream, I assume, so u really don’t know how much prog is actually in each pump. And then everyone absorbs things trasndermally differently, and there’s a decent amount of factors that effect transdermal absorption, regardless of the individual. So it’s pretty much a crapshoot, imo, what’s goin on in ur body prog wise lol. But luckily getting ur E2 and prog levels checked should give u some insight into what’s goin on. I just don’t know if I like transdermal prog, simply because the range for prog is pretty tight, and I feel like levels can fluctuate quite a bit taking transdermal prog, and slight fluctuations can probably make big differences, again because the range is so tight. I feel like a more precise way of taking it would probably be better with prog, like oral or injectable, for example. Injectable being my preferred route. It’s a simple subQ injection before bed. No need to do IM or anything. The amount of oil is so little that it doesn’t create lumps or anything.

 

[MNguy]

Interesting. Yeah if testosterone cream is any indicator, I absorb like crazy via scrotal application. 2 clicks had my free t at like 45. That is why I only do the body application now. I can only imagine my prog levels were jacked sky high as well. Lesson learned, I suppose. Respect hormones. More is not always better. Thanks for all the info

 

[DS3]

Hello, for the past 2 weeks I’ve been using progesterone cream, one pump scrotal application per day. Over this weekend I started to notice my joints were achy, felt sort of dry, popping a bit. I’ve actually been feeling pretty good (libido and mentally) but thinking I may have overdone it with the progesterone. I’ve heard that progesterone competes with the estrogen receptor. I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this with progesterone or has anything to add? I originally started the progesterone because labs showed progesterone super low. I’ve been off the progesterone 2 days. Honestly, I’m a bit freaked out. Never had anything like this happen on trt.

Protocol:
3 clicks test cream to body
35 mcg t3
400iu Hcg 2X/week

Last labs: Free T-20, E2-26, progesterone-0.1

I experienced the same dry joint feeling after using too much oral progesterone; it felt analogous to taking a small AI dose. I dropped the progesterone and everything retuned to normal.

There is citation in the literature about progesterone competing with estrogen. However, progesterone is not going to lower circulating estrogen. Rather, it will compete at receptor sites, this rendering the circulating estrogen less effective at its job.

With the side effects you are experiencing, your dosage is probably too high.

 

[HyperResponder]

Are you taking Cialis?

 

[Gman86]

I experienced the same dry joint feeling after using too much oral progesterone; it felt analogous to taking a small AI dose. I dropped the progesterone and everything retuned to normal.

There is citation in the literature about progesterone competing with estrogen. However, progesterone is not going to lower circulating estrogen. Rather, it will compete at receptor sites, this rendering the circulating estrogen less effective at its job.

With the side effects you are experiencing, your dosage is probably too high.

Did u notice anything good or bad mood wise or sexually while taking the prog?

 

[MNguy]

Are you taking Cialis?

Not regularly

 

[MNguy]

I experienced the same dry joint feeling after using too much oral progesterone; it felt analogous to taking a small AI dose. I dropped the progesterone and everything retuned to normal.

There is citation in the literature about progesterone competing with estrogen. However, progesterone is not going to lower circulating estrogen. Rather, it will compete at receptor sites, this rendering the circulating estrogen less effective at its job.

With the side effects you are experiencing, your dosage is probably too high.

Interesting. Thanks for chiming in. I should note that I also have really high dht due to the testosterone cream, which also is known to compete for the estrogen receptor. I’ll bet between that and the sky high progesterone, the actual estrogen that was getting to the receptors was nil. I do think the progesterone was really helping my adrenal issues though. I’m going to give it a few weeks and probably give it another go at a much lower dose.

 

[Gman86]

Interesting. Thanks for chiming in. I should note that I also have really high dht due to the testosterone cream, which also is known to compete for the estrogen receptor. I’ll bet between that and the sky high progesterone, the actual estrogen that was getting to the receptors was nil. I do think the progesterone was really helping my adrenal issues though. I’m going to give it a few weeks and probably give it another go at a much lower dose.

In what way do u feel it was helping with ur adrenal issues?

 

[MNguy]

Did u notice anything good or bad mood wise or sexually while taking the prog?

I think it was helping? I’ve honestly never really felt much from HCG, but adding the progesterone made it feel like the HCG was actually working, if that makes sense. Libido was up a tick, orgasms were better and everything just hung nice and plump. Sorry if that is TMI… my adrenals are pretty out of whack though and I think it might have been helping balance things out.

 

[MNguy]

In what way do u feel it was helping with ur adrenal issues?

We’ll mostly just that I was actually waking up in the AM refreshed and ready to go. Prior to the prog, I would sleep til 11am on my days off and even then I’d have to pry myself out of bed. My AM cortisol on the last test was completely bottomed out. Seems like the prog has maybe helped me produce cortisol while I’m sleeping? Maybe balance it out during the day better? It’s hard to say, really. I just know that I felt better on it. My joints feel a lot better than a few days ago, but I’m still probably going to wait til next week to resume just to be safe.

 

[Gman86]

We’ll mostly just that I was actually waking up in the AM refreshed and ready to go. Prior to the prog, I would sleep til 11am on my days off and even then I’d have to pry myself out of bed. My AM cortisol on the last test was completely bottomed out. Seems like the prog has maybe helped me produce cortisol while I’m sleeping? Maybe balance it out during the day better? It’s hard to say, really. I just know that I felt better on it. My joints feel a lot better than a few days ago, but I’m still probably going to wait til next week to resume just to be safe.

So ur joints feel better on or off of it?

And ur cortisol was bottomed out in ur labs while on it?

 

[MNguy]

Sorry if I said that in a confusing way. My last 2 sets of cortisol labs, April 2021 and October 2021 showed my cortisol bottomed out in the AM, then basically jacked above range the rest of the day. I’ve only been using progesterone for the past 2 weeks. I have no idea what my cortisol labs are on the prog, but if I decide to stay on it I’ll get the labs done. It’s been 5 days since my last prog dose and whatever caused my achy joints has mostly abated. Left knee is still a bit achy. Probably going to give the prog another go at a lower dose after another half week or so just to be safe.

 

[Gman86]

Sorry if I said that in a confusing way. My last 2 sets of cortisol labs, April 2021 and October 2021 showed my cortisol bottomed out in the AM, then basically jacked above range the rest of the day. I’ve only been using progesterone for the past 2 weeks. I have no idea what my cortisol labs are on the prog, but if I decide to stay on it I’ll get the labs done. It’s been 5 days since my last prog dose and whatever caused my achy joints has mostly abated. Left knee is still a bit achy. Probably going to give the prog another go at a lower dose after another half week or so just to be safe.

Awesome thanks for clarifying. Wish we had more labs of guys testing cortisol before and after supplementing with prog. Prog is basically the direct precursor to cortisol, so very curious to see if prog supplementation does in fact raise cortisol levels, especially in guys that run low because of HPTA shutdown.