Who's currently on T propionate?

[Tokumei]

The support is appreciated. Nonetheless, the goal here is to improve our knowledge. That can only occur when new ideas face close scrutiny and survive informed criticism. @DS3 was on point to bring up the subject of direct metabolism of bound testosterone. But his other comments are mainly vague skepticism, which is hard to address.

Yes sir and i can see your theories are well researched and put together based off factual evidence, not hocus pocus. And i thought the point here was to battle it out to see who is the smartest most knowledgable?

 

[antelopers]

Yes sir and i can see your theories are well researched and put together based off factual evidence, not hocus pocus. And i thought the point here was to battle it out to see who is the smartest most knowledgable?

The point here is to have a community of people that can help others with not only their scientific data but also anecdotal experiences. Not a battle to see who is the smartest or king of the internet message board. Nobody gives a shit.

Sometimes anecdotal experiences can be more useful and helpful than scientific data. There are plenty of cases where we see all the data should support one thing, but real world experience says another. Science is still open to human error and interpretation in it's application. And it's arrogant to think we have a complete understanding of something just because we have a controlled study done.

 

[DS3]

There is no way in hell someone taking 75mg test p eod is peaking at just 1100.

For real man. I just totally lied and made those numbers up. I didn't even test my number. Just made it up. Thought you all would feel sorry for me.

JK. Has the blood tests if you want to see them.

 

[tareload]

Let's say that low-SHBG guy is identical to you in all regards except SHBG. You both inject inject 100 mg TC every Monday, and after steady state you measure serum levels on Friday. You, with SHBG 70 nMol/L, measure total T as 950-1000 ng/dL. In this case low-SHBG twin, with SHBG of 7, measures about 800 ng/dL. Basically, his total testosterone is always going to be around 20% lower than yours. You do not and cannot metabolize/excrete at a lower rate. We've agreed that you're each absorbing the same amount of testosterone over any time interval. Therefore, at steady state, over any reasonable time interval, you must both be using/excreting the same amount. Furthermore, applying the law of mass action, Absorption_rate = MCR * free_T, means you both have the same free testosterone over any reasonable interval. This is how you work backwards to determine low-SHBG twin's total testosterone—we know he must have about the same free T as you.

... There's zero proof anywhere to date, that can demonstrate how bound testosterone acts upon the bodies cells...

As I mentioned above, there are some known uses for SHBG-bound testosterone, and they may contribute to suboptimal results by low-SHBG guys. However, the evidence so far seems to be saying that this activity plays a relatively small role in the consumption and elimination of testosterone.

...but one thing is for certain and that is someone with high shbg will keep released testosterone in circulation longer than someone with low shbg.

No, free testosterone is what drives this. If you and your low-SHBG twin have the same free testosterone levels then you will both be metabolizing and excreting testosterone at close to the same rate.

Oxandrolone Troche Experience: Potential Atherosclerosis Marker WMD

I never even considered this. Help me understand. So if I’m using drugs that greatly reduce shbg will my then current dose of testosterone essentially be less effective? Or is it that it’s even more effective just displaying a lower serum level? My experience was consistent with paper I...

forums.t-nation.com

Real world example with assumption that Vermeulen will predict equilbrium dialysis free T usually within 20% (sorry didn't run dialysis numbers with these tests). Also, please read this example while keeping in your mind the terms "apparent metabolic clearance rate using TT" vs what is actual clearance rate based on free T.

Also have to assume that oxandrolone doesn't affect RIA TT numbers which I think is reasonable. Free T invariant to lowered SHBG by taking oxandrolone. Also shows that oxandrolone doesn't "free up more T". Yes, % free T may increase with oxandrolone, but free T is about the same.

 

[tareload]

This study backs up that idea.

Serum levels of sex hormone‐binding globulin (SHBG) are not associated with lower levels of non‐SHBG‐bound testosterone in male newborns and healthy adult men

View attachment 8939

Bravo and it is puzzling to me there was no discussion on the discussion in this paper. Remember fT was calculated in this paper and hence any artifacts between calculation of fT = f(TT,SHBG) would be propagated.

I'll have to go back and look at Sodergard formulas.

 

[tareload]

I'll have to go back and look at Sodergard formulas.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1258/000456306778520115

 

[tareload]

All studies have weaknesses. Despite that fact, and the fact that this study's conclusions report that clearance rate is dependent on both underlying metabolism and SHBG, this provides evidence that you are incorrect in your theoretical assumption that clearance rates are independent of SHBG.

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