Testosterone propionate supposedly the best ester?

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What kind of dosages are we talking about here? Have you made any comparisons in the TRT range? If we're talking like 500 mg+ weekly, I wouldn't be surprised if ester differences disappear in the context of levels that remain massively supraphysiologic at all times.

I'm sorry if you haven't experienced it - the magic is real my friend!
You make a good point. I have not tried them in the normal range doages but have a lot of experience in the supraphysiological range. Might be worth trying.

So you’re saying that you do prop as TRT and have a better experience than with longer esters? Just wanted to clarify before I went down the rabbit hole of trying it.
 
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Grape seed oil. It's thicker than it would be without BB, but then again the concentration is lower, which might even out. I haven't tried standard 100 mg/ml prop recently to compare.
Out of curiosity did you ever use Defy’s prop? If so, what were your blood levels on prop? I actually found my swing to be fairly aggressive on Defy’s prop according to my blood levels 936 at peak (5 hours later), 604 at 4pm (12 hours after injection). I can’t get it tested at 8pm which is bed time for me but wish I could. I’m really intrigued by the solvent free prop.
 
Out of curiosity did you ever use Defy’s prop? If so, what were your blood levels on prop? I actually found my swing to be fairly aggressive on Defy’s prop according to my blood levels 936 at peak (5 hours later), 604 at 4pm (12 hours after injection).
I didn't use Defy's prop. I've used prop from a compounding pharmacy, which I don't remember the name of, but it was a standard 100 mg/mL formula. I was never able to exceed 10 or 11 mg daily of that due to side effects. By contrast, I've just spent a week at 25 mg daily.
 
I didn't use Defy's prop. I've used prop from a compounding pharmacy, which I don't remember the name of, but it was a standard 100 mg/mL formula. I was never able to exceed 10 or 11 mg daily of that due to side effects. By contrast, I've just spent a week at 25 mg daily.
great to hear you’ve found the best form of test for you!
 
I feel generally pretty good on enanthate but sort of zombie'ish. Many hypogonadal symptoms improved on it but I still didn't have much libido.

On prop so far I have a better mood, feeling sharper cognitively, no zombie feelings. Generally I am feeling more normal and more like my pre-TRT self, except without most of the hypogonadal symptoms. Libido might be a bit better too but I don't want to jinx anything.

Using Pharmacom test prop. Had to go UGL to find a solvent free formula unfortunately.
In this video here, this guy from Cortex Labs really puts out a good explanation on why test prop is more favorable to test cyp for libido. It really makes sense when you put it all together:)
 
I know this thread is about propionate, however, I feel it's also about different esters, therefore I would like to share my lab results with TU (T undecanoate).
Once weekly 250mg SC glute region. TU only.
It's a salvia test, i.e. it shows free hormones. I will start adding DHEA to check what impact it has (might get worse or even better).
I think TU is interesting if one has issues with hormone fluctuation and high aromatization. In that case it might be an alternative to frequent TE,TC injections.
 

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No, unfortunately they don't publish that information. I would guess it is within the standard 10-20% range that compounding pharmacies use.

Does it contain ethyl oleate?
Do you think the absence of bb in the 50mg/mL formulation is what reduces the pip so much?
 
Need to be more specific here when speaking in terms of less suppression, impact on fertility let alone dopamine!

Again this is thrown out the window with daily prop if you are one who pushes your peak TT/FT and more importantly trough up too high.

Many jumping on the TP bandwagon especially those idiots with that more T is better mentality are running around with absurdly high peak FT levels let alone high/absurdly high troughs!

This will result in a strong suppression of the hpta.

Again look up the PK/half-life TP vs oral TU vs Natesto!

Oral TU is dosed twice-daily (2 peaks/troughs).

There is still a strong suppression of the hpta.

When using daily short-acting TP the T levels achieved peak vs trough let alone the time period over those 24 hrs T levels are elevated whether mid-range/high/absurdly high will still result in a strong suppression of the hpta.

Again many are running way too high a peak land more importantly trough FT level when using a daily TP protocol!

You have guys injecting 25-30 mg TP daily which is a whopping f**king dose!

If anything the main advantage when using TP would be the daily peak/trough!

This may have a positive impact on energy, mood, libido and sleep for some.

The OP of this thread is one of the few that is using a low daily dose of TP without pushing his peak absurdly high let alone trough FT too high!

Keep in mind he had his first set of labs done 12 hrs post-injection so he clearly missed testing at peak!









*dopamine circuits are powerfully regulated by androgens

*androgens as potent modulators of prefrontal cortical operations and of closely related, functionally critical measures of prefrontal dopamine level or tone

*androgens dynamically control meso prefrontal dopamine systems and impact prefrontal states of hypo- and hyper-dopaminergia

*dopamine-dependent prefrontal operations appear to universally follow inverted U shaped functions

* androgens maintain a lifelong capacity to bidirectionally modulate prefrontal dopamine tone

*By targeting enzymes and signaling molecules associated with androgenic metabolites of testosterone (Fig 1), these studies more directly implicate androgens in modulating prefrontal function. They also show that both supranormal androgen stimulation and androgen deficiency negatively affects prefrontal operations (Fig 2A). This inverted U- shaped function is similar to that described for functional meso prefrontal dopamine settings (Cools R and D'Esposito M, 2011; Cools R et al.,2019; Floresco SB, 2013; Floresco SB and Magyar O, 2006)

*The data also demonstrate an inverted U-shaped function that describes these dopamine effects. According to this function, prefrontal dopamine levels— often referred to as prefrontal dopamine tone- that are either higher or lower than a functionally optimal set point are detrimental to behavior and circuit function (Fig 2B).

Would the time to peak be different when administering to different muscle groups e.g. faster peak with IM deltoid shots and slower peak with IM glute shots?
 
Out of curiosity did you ever use Defy’s prop? If so, what were your blood levels on prop? I actually found my swing to be fairly aggressive on Defy’s prop according to my blood levels 936 at peak (5 hours later), 604 at 4pm (12 hours after injection). I can’t get it tested at 8pm which is bed time for me but wish I could. I’m really intrigued by the solvent free prop.
i use defy prop. i also tried UGL/ mct based prop. no diff tbh. to swings are expected.
and on prop it is day and night for me. i've ran a course of Tcyp lately for some time to finish some older defy cyp, no the same for sure.
 
Would the time to peak be different when administering to different muscle groups e.g. faster peak with IM deltoid shots and slower peak with IM glute shots?

Would not get too caught up on this!

My reply from some previous threads.

Regarding half-lives keep in mind that a majority of studies on the PK/PD of the various T-esters were done using IM (once weekly/fortnightly) injections in a small number of subjects and most of the literature is from decades ago.

Many other factors affect the rate at which testosterone is released from the oily depot at the injection site.

Sub-q vs IM, the volume of injection, injection depth, site of injection, lymphatic flow, and the concentration of BOH (benzyl alcohol) are other possible factors that can affect the absorption rates of the esterified hormone.

Also need to keep in mind when using esterified testosterone whether (TC/TE/TP) that post-injection there will be an initial burst release of T and levels will start rising within the first 2 hrs.

T levels will spike up fairly quickly even when using the medium-chain esters.

Enanthate has been shown to reach Tmax 10 hrs.

I have an older paper from Dr. Swerdloff in which he states he has seen TE peaking as early as 6 hrs post-injection (data not shown).

The only way you would catch your true peak would be getting blood work done hourly post-injection.

As you would know it is much easier to test true trough which is just before your next injection.
 
The one thing that isn't awesome is water retention is quite a bit worse, contrary to prop's reputation. Jerajera had the same experience with it (significantly worse water retention on prop).

I ordered some HCTZ and dandelion root extract to see if that helps.
Considering your current dose of test prop is 20-25mg per day; have you thought of lowering it down to 15mg per day to combat the water retention? I know myself that I get no water retention whatsoever on either 10mg of test prop per day or 10mg of test phenylpropionate per day:)
When will you be getting blood test done of the test prop:)?
 
Does it contain ethyl oleate?
Do you think the absence of bb in the 50mg/mL formulation is what reduces the pip so much?
No ethyl oleate, AFAIK that is only used in ultra high concentration formulas like 300+ mg/mL testosterone.

I heard an interesting explanation from Vigorous Steve about the cause of PIP on propionate. His theory is that with very low viscosity oil like MCT, the depot disperses too quickly, and the propionate basically crashes out of the solution. I might not be relating it quite accurately so watch the video yourself - the link below starts where relevant discussion begins (worthwhile as the discussion around the fate of the oil depot is fascinating). The paper he's talking about btw has been posted on the forum many times previously.


Anyway, without any BB and in grapeseed oil instead of MCT, the solvent-free prop is probably more viscous than a standard propionate formula and would then be less apt to cause PIP based on this theory (I get zero PIP with it). I have tried regular 100 mg/ml prop in MCT oil and did experience major PIP with that. I have some 100 mg/ml prop in grapeseed oil and will experiment with that in the near future.
 
Considering your current dose of test prop is 20-25mg per day; have you thought of lowering it down to 15mg per day to combat the water retention? I know myself that I get no water retention whatsoever on either 10mg of test prop per day or 10mg of test phenylpropionate per day:)
When will you be getting blood test done of the test prop:)?
No - my answer to the water retention was to buy a larger wedding band. I'm also experimenting with taking 6.25 mg aromasin as needed. I'm sure lowering the dose would work to reduce water retention, but considering that is basically the only negative side effect I am experiencing right now, I am not inclined to reduce the dose. BP is normal.

Something significant to report about sleep: at 25 mg a day of prop, I am sleeping very soundly and deeply and getting my normal 90 min+ of deep sleep per night and 6 1/2 - 7 hours total sleep. At 175 mg enanthate weekly, I was only getting around 5 hours of sleep and not more than 60 min of deep sleep. There was just too much constant stimulation around the clock. The lack of quality sleep and constant stimulation contributed to a persistent "wired but tired" state.

I'll get blood work done in a couple weeks when I'm back from a work trip.
 
Considering your current dose of test prop is 20-25mg per day; have you thought of lowering it down to 15mg per day to combat the water retention? I know myself that I get no water retention whatsoever on either 10mg of test prop per day or 10mg of test phenylpropionate per day:)
When will you be getting blood test done of the test prop:)?

You're one of the only people I've found who has actually tried Test Phenylprop. What was your experience with it?
 
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