Testosterone Cypionate vs Enanthate Ester break down

[Charliebizz]

There are a couple of members, including myself, my personal experience is cypionate is more potent than Enanthate.

I’m extremely sensitive to certain things, testosterone, and medication in general. So maybe it takes people like us to feel a difference.

Bodybuilders have been saying for years that they get less fluid retention from Enanthate than with Cypionate.

I did notice that my levels were higher on cyp than enanthate. But it wasn’t the higher levels causing issues because I’ve had high levels on cream with no issues.

 

[Systemlord]

I did notice that my levels were higher on cyp than enanthate. But it wasn’t the higher levels causing issues because I’ve had high levels on cream with no issues.

Slightly steadier levels on cypionate, levels drop a bit sooner on enanthate. This may be the difference, even if only a little.

On Jatenzo, 6 hour half-life, I can handle much higher levels without sides.

 

[Charliebizz]

Slightly steadier levels on cypionate, levels drop a bit sooner on enanthate. This may be the difference, even if only a little.

On Jatenzo, 6 hour half-life, I can handle much higher levels without sides.

What’s crazy is how fast my levels drop. When I was in 3x a week injections. 90mg total. 8hours after a 30 mg injection my levels were in the 800s. 26 hours later 500. And I tested this multiple times.

 

[Systemlord]

What’s crazy is how fast my levels drop. When I was in 3x a week injections. 90mg total. 8hours after a 30 mg injection my levels were in the 800s. 26 hours later 500. And I tested this multiple times.

We are on metabolize testosterone at different rates.

 

[Willyt]

The worst I've felt on TRT involved cypionate, but in fairness there were many other variables involved including a different carrier oil (cottonseed versus grape). However, like others have said, I've read countless accounts on forums of guys preferring enan over cyp and rarely the other way around.

It doesn't make sense on paper considering how similar they are, but run with Enan if its working!

 

[Cataceous]

We ... metabolize testosterone at different rates.

The post-injection decay in serum testosterone is governed primarily by the absorption rate, not the metabolic rate.

 

[Charliebizz]

The post-injection decay in serum testosterone is governed primarily by the absorption rate, not the metabolic rate.

Why would I have such wild swings in my levels then ? I’ve tested it multiple times so it’s not a one off. I drop from 800-900 to 450-500 in 18 hours

 

[RotnGun]

What’s crazy is how fast my levels drop. When I was in 3x a week injections. 90mg total. 8hours after a 30 mg injection my levels were in the 800s. 26 hours later 500. And I tested this multiple times.

Was this on Test E or Test C?

 

[Cataceous]

Why would I have such wild swings in my levels then ? I’ve tested it multiple times so it’s not a one off. I drop from 800-900 to 450-500 in 18 hours

I've cited you as an example of someone who seems to absorb testosterone unusually fast. Assuming your test results are correct, I don't have a better explanation. This just says that your injected depots are dissolving at a rate that is considerably higher than average. As a result, the apparent half-life you observe is much lower than what's typical.

 

[Charliebizz]

Was this on Test E or Test C?

that was test e

 

[GreenMachineX]

I guess I really need to ask my doctor about trying test e...

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Mohit Khera acknowledges some differences in his interview with Peter Attia:

#260 ‒ Men’s Sexual Health: why it matters, what can go wrong, and how to fix it | Mohit Khera, M.D., M.B.A., M.P.H. - Peter Attia

“Clinicians don't ask about it. Patients are embarrassed to ask about it. And that's the suffering in silence.” —Mohit Khera

peterattiamd.com

From the show notes:

• He uses cypionate for younger patients and enanthate for older patients (he teaches residents, “cypionate has a C for child and enanthate has E for elderly”
  • Cypionates are more anabolic and have more sodium retention, and he tries to stay away from swelling/ edema in older patients
  • He makes the age cut-off around 50-60, but looks at the patient

 

[madman]

Mohit Khera acknowledges some differences in his interview with Peter Attia:

#260 ‒ Men’s Sexual Health: why it matters, what can go wrong, and how to fix it | Mohit Khera, M.D., M.B.A., M.P.H. - Peter Attia

“Clinicians don't ask about it. Patients are embarrassed to ask about it. And that's the suffering in silence.” —Mohit Khera

peterattiamd.com

From the show notes:

He is one of my top uros but I had to shake my head when I heard Dr. Khera state this.

Cypionate is not more anabolic than enanthate.

Once the ester is cleaved all that is left is testosterone.

Although many tend to state that they retain more water when using cypionate all androgens cause sodium retention.

If you tend to hold more water on TC then your muscles may appear bigger due to the bloat/puffiness caused by the extra-cellular water (between the muscle and skin).

TC has no advantage over TE let alone TP when it comes to building muscle tissue (actin/myosin).

The dose of weekly T injected and how high you drive up your FT is the anabolic switch to gaining muscle/increasing strength.




ANDROGENS

*Fluid and electrolyte disturbances- Retention of sodium, chloride, water, potassium, calcium, and inorganic phosphates.

Men’s Sexual Health: why it matters, what can go wrong, and how to fix it

This is gold! Mohit Khera is a urologist with expertise in sexual medicine. In this episode, he provides an overview of male sexual health. He first goes in-depth on erectile dysfunction, shedding light on its prevalence across different age groups, diagnostic methods, and its intriguing...

www.excelmale.com

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm familiar with the concept that testosterone is testosterone after it is cleaved from the ester. However, when what should happen based on our theoretical understanding:

...all androgens cause sodium retention...

conflicts with what actually happens:

...many tend to state that they retain more water when using cypionate...

then we ignore reality at our peril.

 

[madman]

I'm familiar with the concept that testosterone is testosterone after it is cleaved from the ester. However, when what should happen based on our theoretical understanding:

conflicts with what actually happens:

then we ignore reality at our peril.

It would seem so.

Hard to say what mechanism is at play when it comes to specific esters.

The main purpose of the ester is to control the release rate from the oily depot.

Once in the bloodstream, the ester is removed (cleaved) to yield free (active) T.

Bottom line is TC is not more anabolic than TE.

 

[Systemlord]

Bottom line is TC is not more anabolic than TE.

You previous said injections has more anabolic potential over something like Jatenzo, so steadier hormone levels, even slightly more steady may have more anabolic potential.

 

[madman]

You previous said injections has more anabolic potential over something like Jatenzo, so steadier hormone levels, even slightly more steady may have more anabolic potential.

Again once the ester is cleaved all that is left is active FT.

When it comes to the half-lifes TC/TE are basically interchangeable.

When it comes to reaping the full anabolic benefits not only is having supra-physiological levels of FT steady-state 24/7 important but also how high you drive up FT levels.

When it comes to packing on size/mass/strength T is king!

 

[Cataceous]

...many tend to state that they retain more water when using cypionate...

then we ignore reality at our peril.

My bet is that this particular observation would disappear under controlled conditions. Testosterone esters are essentially inert before cleavage. It seems like a stretch to posit that the cleaved esters are doing this.

On the other hand, there's a better basis for the reports comparing longer esters to daily propionate. It's quite plausible that the wide swings in testosterone and it's metabolites create different effects than steady levels.

 

[madman]

My bet is that this particular observation would disappear under controlled conditions. Testosterone esters are essentially inert before cleavage. It seems like a stretch to posit that the cleaved esters are doing this.

On the other hand, there's a better basis for the reports comparing longer esters to daily propionate. It's quite plausible that the wide swings in testosterone and it's metabolites create different effects than steady levels.

Indeed!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

My bet is that this particular observation would disappear under controlled conditions. Testosterone esters are essentially inert before cleavage. It seems like a stretch to posit that the cleaved esters are doing this.

On the other hand, there's a better basis for the reports comparing longer esters to daily propionate. It's quite plausible that the wide swings in testosterone and it's metabolites create different effects than steady levels.

Wasn't there someone on the forum recently with lab evidence that he was metabolizing testosterone enanthate quicker than expected (edit: it was charliebizz in this same thread)? What if this is not extremely rare, and the half-lives of cypionate vs enanthate in some individuals are significantly different?