Test P improved TRT, libido still at 0 – what next?

[Kenp]

I completely agree. Have you tried Kisspeptin? I got some a while back but still haven't tried it (was busy experimenting with cream, neurosteroids, etc...). I've heard very good things from several men who'd incorporated it into their protocol, especially concerning libido, and even with once/day injections of 100-200mcg.

If you haven't tried it I would definitely give it a shot.

Yeah Kisspeptin is very interesting, going to try it too since I have PFS. Recent PFS guy had improvements from it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinasterideSyndrome/comments/1hgbp3m/update_my_personal_kisspeptin10_experience_1

"I'd say I'm about a month and perhaps a week in, and I've been stable for several weeks at what I would say is probably somewhere between 75-100% back to my original baseline, in both ability to obtain erection, ability to maintain erection, ability to enjoy orgasm, ability to become mentally aroused, and feeling 'the spark' (the spark 'feeling' that you get when you see something arousing that triggers your arousal)."

 

[ziegen]

I completely agree. Have you tried Kisspeptin? I got some a while back but still haven't tried it (was busy experimenting with cream, neurosteroids, etc...). I've heard very good things from several men who'd incorporated it into their protocol, especially concerning libido, and even with once/day injections of 100-200mcg.

If you haven't tried it I would definitely give it a shot.

I haven't tried it, read about it a month ago or so. However it seems getting such things in the US or UK is quite simple and trivial, but for Europe I cannot find any sites. We don't have any "specialized" sites that would sell peptides or various "gray zone" chemicals. It's also quite a niche thing so I doubt you can easily find it on the black market.

Are you using compounded test cream or a brand name?

I'm making my own cream as I wrote a few comments above. I'm in Europe and here we have very limited options in terms of treatment, only gel and Nebido. It's also too niche to be found on the black market.

 

[SSHSSA74]

Are you using compounded test cream or a brand name?

What was your DHEA at when you were tested?

 

[SSHSSA74]

Are you using compounded test cream or a brand name?

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it

 

[SSHSSA74]

For a couple of weeks I even added 20mg of Pregnenolone and DHEA daily along with HCG, but it still did nothing. My E2 is always good, you can see my updates and see that it's never even close to being high, some might even say it's a bit on the lower side compared to T. When I used standard doses of DHT derivatives or really low dose AI, I always felt low E2 symptoms, usually mood changes. I even tried increasing E2 and while levels increased I didn't get any negatives or positives, so I can handle it well, but gain nothing from it. HCG also doesn't increase my E2 too much, it seems to rise slightly, but proportionately with T. I have no blood flow issues, this has always been good, however I do have ED due to having completely 0 libido and arousal at all possible times. Can't really get an erection, or rather at the right time, if you're never aroused.

It seems I'm just one of the few people that on TRT doesn't get any libido benefits, or worse yet, some lose libido. I guess that's just how some of us are made and nobody really knows what's going on. That is not to say that TRT does nothing for me, I have roughly 15 symptoms resolved, some were present since I was a child, so quality of life is way up.

There are some theories floating around, but none can be proven, tested for or solved, so it's a moot point in any case. For my personal belief, I'd use Occam's razor, meaning that the simplest reason is usually the correct one, and, in my opinion, the simplest explanation is that having your hormonal system shutdown prevents you from getting full symptom relief. I'd say this is somewhat "proven" by HCG, as many report benefits which don't seem related to the minor increases in T and E2, hell some get benefits, but higher E2 brings some unrelated negatives. During my research in the last months, it seems people also use Kisspeptin, which is a hormone in the hypothalamus, and many report improvements to libido and other benefits. I was recently looking into Enclomiphene and came across @Cataceous experimentations with GnRH, which is another hormone in the hypothalamus, and he noted several improvements, including libido. He used really low dose TRT along with Enclo and multiple injections of GnRH spread throughout the day, a difficult experiment to say the least.

So Kisspeptin, GnRH, LH and FSH form the hormonal chain to the production of sex hormones. While their main function is to produce sex hormones it does seem like they play an additional role in the function of your body, that isn't truly understood and seems to be different for everyone. Maybe I get no libido benefits due to the shutdown, meanwhile another man might never fix his sleep issues. Based on the fact that many of us are on TRT with good results, after dialing in, it seems that having proper sex hormone levels is more imporant for general health, than having these hormones running, but they do seem to play some role. I think if we could prevent shutdown on any hormonal therapy we would see massive overall improvements. Many note improvements with just HCG, which mimics only LH. What if libido for me hides in one of the other ones or multiple ones? What if we could mimic any other of these four? What if we could mimic all of them on the same time? Some closing questions.

Where do you get

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it.

What was your DHEA levels before supplementation? Which pharmacy do you get your 5mg of micronized slow release Preg?

 

[Jerajera]

Yeah Kisspeptin is very interesting, going to try it too since I have PFS. Recent PFS guy had improvements from it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinasterideSyndrome/comments/1hgbp3m/update_my_personal_kisspeptin10_experience_1

"I'd say I'm about a month and perhaps a week in, and I've been stable for several weeks at what I would say is probably somewhere between 75-100% back to my original baseline, in both ability to obtain erection, ability to maintain erection, ability to enjoy orgasm, ability to become mentally aroused, and feeling 'the spark' (the spark 'feeling' that you get when you see something arousing that triggers your arousal)."

Thanks for linking that, I'm going to try it. It's been sitting in my med cabinet for a few months now, it's probably time to give it a shot.