Test P improved TRT, libido still at 0 – what next?

[ziegen]

Followed your posts but didn't recall that. Can imagine it must be annoying ppl suggesting things that you already checked.

Don't worry, it's no problem.

Yeah really, really sounds like PFS. I completely understand what you mean. I feel fine for most part too but libido is zero. Coulde be something epigenetically, that's whaytmany now think and studies point in that direction too. But we have treatments to fix it, have you seen this PFS recovery?

So what he did was high dose VPA (sodium valproate) to tackle the epigenetic problem, it's an HDACI, combined with DHB for around 3 months. Then followed with PEA (raises allopregnenalone) and high dose HCG for a month or two.

Another guy called Jasper who had PFS got cured too that way.

You can get PFS like syndrome from a lot of things, seen people get it from SSRI's, accutane, AI's, supplements and herbs,...

The problem with PSSD and PFS is that nobody really knows why it happens, and as such the solution is basically impossible to find. I read a bunch of success stories, some just waited it out for years, others blasted 500mg/week of T to brute force their way through, then you have people who do some real esoteric stuff like the guy in the video. I know nothing about the things he's using or where even to get it from. Overall having PSSD or PFS is bleak. I'll see how this DHT thing pans out until the end of the year and then see what else I can do/try.

 

[Kenp]

Don't worry, it's no problem.


The problem with PSSD and PFS is that nobody really knows why it happens, and as such the solution is basically impossible to find. I read a bunch of success stories, some just waited it out for years, others blasted 500mg/week of T to brute force their way through, then you have people who do some real esoteric stuff like the guy in the video. I know nothing about the things he's using or where even to get it from. Overall having PSSD or PFS is bleak. I'll see how this DHT thing pans out until the end of the year and then see what else I can do/try.

Yeah definitely try the DHT angle first. Seen one PFS recovery with andractim, that's dht gel.

 

[ziegen]

UPDATE 7:

Over two weeks ago I traveled for a full week. When I was on Test E I just took an increased dose on the day of departure and everything was fine. Obviously now that I'm on Test P that is no longer possible. I was traveling with a plane so of course I would've preferred to avoid bringing everything along. The obvious choice was to bring along my home-brewed T cream, which I packed into convenient 30ml tubes. Everything went smoothly and I could start using the cream. I have previously checked that it actually works and my peak was at 1400 ng/dl on 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum. I decided on the same protocol as with my small experiment, so 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum every morning. In terms of how I felt and symptom relief, the transition from Test P + DHT gel to T cream was seamless. To me everything felt exactly the same, there was no drop-off in terms of symptom relief or general well-being. I did notice another benefit though:

• Increased water retention: Now this isn't the water retention or bloating from high E2, but a rather positive one. I've always had to go to the bathroom very often, it seemed like water just passed right through me. Also whenever I was dieting I never noticed losing water weight in the first 3 weeks or so, compared to what happened for most people. During the honeymoon phase of TRT I noticed that I was going to the bathroom once every 2-4 hours instead of once every hour, or even more frequent. It was interesting to see how this "issue" from my youth was also related to hormones, but I lost the effects when I came out of the honeymoon phase, yet now they're suddenly back.

Now I can't say for sure if this is an additional effect of T cream or increased DHT, however I think it's from DHT. After my trip, I went to take some bloods to see what my trough and peaks are, and how well I convert to DHT:

Trough:

• Total T: 123 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 24 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 585 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Peak:

• Total T: 1408 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 35 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 2340 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Regarding DHT, obviously the use of cream, especially on the scrotal skin, works extremely well. It's insane what a difference it is compared to injections. At peak my DHT is even higher than what it was with Test P + DHT. While I'm not opposed to having pretty high DHT levels at the moment, I do think it would make sense in trying the application of cream to some other place to get them a bit lower for long term use.
Regarding E2, overall it's on the lower side, but I definitely don't feel any negative effects. I did read in some other thread about cream that the E2 doesn't rise exactly linearly with T, that there is some sort of a delay, meaning that E2 isn't actually that low, it's supposed to have a later peak.
Regarding T, well at peak it's about the same as how it was during my experiment, these levels are pretty good. At trough, however, the levels are bad. It's interesting how I felt bad at 84mg/week of Test P, where my trough was in the 300s, yet here, I didn't feel nearly as bad, maybe just a bit tired. I'd say the reason for why I didn't feel too bad was either the quick absorption of the cream and/or higher DHT levels. However I wasn't sure if the lack of energy was related to hormones as I was very active during my trip. With the results of Test P + DHT gel I already suspected that a 2x day application of gels/creams is necessary based on the peak and trough levels. The fact of the matter is that the absorption of the cream is way too fast to apply just once a day. After getting these results I decided on a slightly modified protocol. I started applying 200mg to the scrotum at 9 AM and then I apply an additional 100mg to the scrotum at 6PM. The morning application ensures that I have good levels throughout the day and the evening application makes sure I have a small bump so that my trough isn't too low. With this the overall picture should still be somewhat similar to Test P. 3 days after modifying my protocol I got back my full energy and started feeling even better than with Test P + DHT.

Thoughts on the cream:
I've continued to use of the T cream even now that I'm back, because I honestly really like it. I've put around 1000 needles in me through the years, and it didn't phase me much, but I have to say it feels nice not having to inject, it's like a little break from it all. Maybe someone who injects 1x a week and gets amazing results would find the cream annoying, but with daily injections, the cream is a great alternative. It also carries the additional benefit of giving you proper DHT levels, if you're someone who doesn't have a great conversion on injections. It's very convenient, you can just have it in some container and measure your daily dose with measuring spoons, or you can fill it into small tubes (30-50ml) and fill a 3ml syringe from behind. It's very inconspicuous, you can have it and take it anywhere, nobody will bat an eye. Making it yourself is also incredibly easy and cheap.

 

[Kenp]

@ziegen Any libido improvements?

Also as someone with PFS I have "watery semen", notice anyting in that department too?

 

[Seagal]

Thank you for that detailed analysis. There many reports on testo cream but I think nobody compared to TP + DHT cream.

I start wondering if the reported benefits of HCG are related to increased testicular dht production.

 

[ziegen]

I have added DHT levels at trough in update 7, the company forgot to send them yesterday.

@ziegen Any libido improvements?

Also as someone with PFS I have "watery semen", notice anyting in that department too?

I've been running increased DHT levels for almost 6 weeks now and there have been no libido improvements. I think I can safely say that DHT won't fix my libido issues. Having hormonal fluctuation and now proper DHT levels has fixed around 15 symptoms and my body works better than ever. This is how a proper TRT protocol should feel like. All of these symptoms are minor, and having just 1 of them wouldn't be a big deal, but taking care of all of them is a huge improvement.
Obviously being on TRT I have smaller balls, less semen and it's also less thick. All of these things were far, far worse on Test E. Now that I have hormonal fluctuation I can say that it's still noticeable, but not nearly as much as before. My balls also don't ache as they did with Test E.
Obviously there is something wrong with an unknown factor regarding libido. I'd say it's very much possible that being in an androgen deprived state for multiple years has done some damage/changes to my body. I started TRT 8 years after getting acute symptoms of low T. Maybe long term androgen deprivation does similar things to the body as Finasteride/Accutane/SSRIs do, but not nearly as bad and maybe more localized.

Thank you for that detailed analysis. There many reports on testo cream but I think nobody compared to TP + DHT cream.

I start wondering if the reported benefits of HCG are related to increased testicular dht production.

I also think that DHT plays a vital role in the success of HCG. I have a good enough, but not high, natural conversion of T to DHT, but on injections the conversion usually gets lowered. So in a natural state I had a decent conversion and on injections I had a bad conversion. Now 1000 IU/week of HCG increased my T levels by about 10-15%, however already having quite bad levels (low conversion) of DHT and now adding a small bump of DHT (decent conversion) with HCG, does nothing for me. People who have a better natural conversion and an overall better DHT state will likely get a bigger bump from HCG, which might get them over some limit where they start feeling really good.

 

[Kenp]

Interesting video I saw yesterday:

 

[Mastodont]

If this is the case, that DHT will keep balls in check, how come there is no product for trt that combines test and dht.

 

[Kenp]

@ziegen you from the EU? Had any troubles getting alphagels? Heard he sends from Australia.

 

[ziegen]

@ziegen you from the EU? Had any troubles getting alphagels? Heard he sends from Australia.

They send from Australia yes, obviously it has to go through customs and how difficult customs are in your country, I don't know. It was easier to get raw powders and the home made creams are of better quality than what you're going to get from any other providers. The ointments that are full of DMSO are rough on the skin.

 

[Forty2]

UPDATE 7:

Over two weeks ago I traveled for a full week. When I was on Test E I just took an increased dose on the day of departure and everything was fine. Obviously now that I'm on Test P that is no longer possible. I was traveling with a plane so of course I would've preferred to avoid bringing everything along. The obvious choice was to bring along my home-brewed T cream, which I packed into convenient 30ml tubes. Everything went smoothly and I could start using the cream. I have previously checked that it actually works and my peak was at 1400 ng/dl on 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum. I decided on the same protocol as with my small experiment, so 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum every morning. In terms of how I felt and symptom relief, the transition from Test P + DHT gel to T cream was seamless. To me everything felt exactly the same, there was no drop-off in terms of symptom relief or general well-being. I did notice another benefit though:

• Increased water retention: Now this isn't the water retention or bloating from high E2, but a rather positive one. I've always had to go to the bathroom very often, it seemed like water just passed right through me. Also whenever I was dieting I never noticed losing water weight in the first 3 weeks or so, compared to what happened for most people. During the honeymoon phase of TRT I noticed that I was going to the bathroom once every 2-4 hours instead of once every hour, or even more frequent. It was interesting to see how this "issue" from my youth was also related to hormones, but I lost the effects when I came out of the honeymoon phase, yet now they're suddenly back.

Now I can't say for sure if this is an additional effect of T cream or increased DHT, however I think it's from DHT. After my trip, I went to take some bloods to see what my trough and peaks are, and how well I convert to DHT:

Trough:

• Total T: 123 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 24 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 585 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Peak:

• Total T: 1408 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 35 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 2340 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Regarding DHT, obviously the use of cream, especially on the scrotal skin, works extremely well. It's insane what a difference it is compared to injections. At peak my DHT is even higher than what it was with Test P + DHT. While I'm not opposed to having pretty high DHT levels at the moment, I do think it would make sense in trying the application of cream to some other place to get them a bit lower for long term use.
Regarding E2, overall it's on the lower side, but I definitely don't feel any negative effects. I did read in some other thread about cream that the E2 doesn't rise exactly linearly with T, that there is some sort of a delay, meaning that E2 isn't actually that low, it's supposed to have a later peak.
Regarding T, well at peak it's about the same as how it was during my experiment, these levels are pretty good. At trough, however, the levels are bad. It's interesting how I felt bad at 84mg/week of Test P, where my trough was in the 300s, yet here, I didn't feel nearly as bad, maybe just a bit tired. I'd say the reason for why I didn't feel too bad was either the quick absorption of the cream and/or higher DHT levels. However I wasn't sure if the lack of energy was related to hormones as I was very active during my trip. With the results of Test P + DHT gel I already suspected that a 2x day application of gels/creams is necessary based on the peak and trough levels. The fact of the matter is that the absorption of the cream is way too fast to apply just once a day. After getting these results I decided on a slightly modified protocol. I started applying 200mg to the scrotum at 9 AM and then I apply an additional 100mg to the scrotum at 6PM. The morning application ensures that I have good levels throughout the day and the evening application makes sure I have a small bump so that my trough isn't too low. With this the overall picture should still be somewhat similar to Test P. 3 days after modifying my protocol I got back my full energy and started feeling even better than with Test P + DHT.

Thoughts on the cream:
I've continued to use of the T cream even now that I'm back, because I honestly really like it. I've put around 1000 needles in me through the years, and it didn't phase me much, but I have to say it feels nice not having to inject, it's like a little break from it all. Maybe someone who injects 1x a week and gets amazing results would find the cream annoying, but with daily injections, the cream is a great alternative. It also carries the additional benefit of giving you proper DHT levels, if you're someone who doesn't have a great conversion on injections. It's very convenient, you can just have it in some container and measure your daily dose with measuring spoons, or you can fill it into small tubes (30-50ml) and fill a 3ml syringe from behind. It's very inconspicuous, you can have it and take it anywhere, nobody will bat an eye. Making it yourself is also incredibly easy and cheap.

How do you make the test cream?

 

[ziegen]

How do you make the test cream?

It's basically just adding powder to a cream base. So the cream base already has everything in it for it to be a proper cream. Preservatives, emulsifiers, moisturizes and protects the skin, etc., but it contains no active ingredients. I just bought a medical cream base via Amazon for about $20 for 1kg, which will last me a long time. Now the pharmacy T creams, well they're technically gels, if I'm not mistaken, have special "cream" bases, which I'm sure are better than something generic. But you can't get those or are very expensive, and my home made cream works well enough, so there is no point either way.

Now you have your powder and your cream base and you can mix it. Powder can be further crushed to smaller particles with a mortar and pestle, but if it's micronized, it's as fine as it gets so no need. Let's say we want 100ml of 10% cream. You take 10g of powder and put it into something like a cereal bowl and then you add 20g of regular cooking oil, as hormones dissolve in fats. I played with oil a bit and found the 1:2 ratio to work well. Too little oil and the cream is gritty and might not be evenly distributed, too much oil and the entire cream is oily. Anyway powder and oil are mixed, now I cover the bowl and put it aside until the next day, but I mix it a few times during the day.

Considering I'm making 100ml (about 100g) of cream and I already have a 30g total weight, I need to add in 70g of the cream base. I put in the cream base 1/4 at a time and mix it really well, until all the cream is used. Now I cover the cream again and put it aside for the next day and once again I mix it a few times during the day. You might notice the oil not being completely mixed with the cream, but after mixing a few times during the day and with a bit of time it will fully mix. It does have emulsifiers in it that combine water and oil after all.

And so the cream is ready, I transferred it into a small and wide jar with a lid and I use measuring spoons to apply proper doses. Alternatively you can fill it into tubes (30-100 ml I guess), but it's a bit messy and a pain to deal with, plus you need to throw out the tube after using. You can then take a 5ml injection, pull out the plunger and fill it with cream and then apply the correct amount. The first method is great for home applications and the second method is great for traveling.

Here is an actual guide, which I used, from a maker of medical gels: Home Compounding Guide with PHLOJEL® Ultra

This guide goes into details and I followed their instructions fully for the first time, but then I figured out how to simplify the process. In the guide it seems like the process is longer and more difficult, but it isn't. They do cover adding some extra materials as some are lost during the process. They also mention sterility, but considering you're making cream, which already contains preservatives, I don't think you have to worry much. I would suggest that you don't make cream for more than 6 months in advance, better yet 3 months in advance, but that's your choice. I don't think anything bad would happen, but it might lose effectiveness. Also I didn't use DMSO as it makes the skin absorb EVERYTHING, which means the ingredients from the cream and potentially some bacteria could get absorbed as well, so I'd rather play it safe. They also mention that you can only make about a 12.5% strength cream, for anything higher you need to use additional substances, which I know nothing about, so I settled for the 10% cream.

 

[Jerajera]

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it.

 

[ziegen]

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it.

I've been using HCG for years now. When I was on 600 IU per week, split into 2 doses, I tested my DHEA and Pregnenolone levels and they came back towards the top of the range. I think these two hormones are usually a problem for older people, thus the need for supplementation. When I was off HCG for a few months, I was taking 10mg of DHEA and Pregnenolone daily which has also put me towards the top of the range. I have to say I didn't feel any different with mid range or high range levels. Daily hormonal fluctuation along with proper DHT levels, both of which can be easily achieved on T cream (and no injections other than HCG), does work wonders, it's just a shame it does nothing for my libido, otherwise this would be the perfect protocol.

 

[Jerajera]

I've been using HCG for years now. When I was on 600 IU per week, split into 2 doses, I tested my DHEA and Pregnenolone levels and they came back towards the top of the range. I think these two hormones are usually a problem for older people, thus the need for supplementation. When I was off HCG for a few months, I was taking 10mg of DHEA and Pregnenolone daily which has also put me towards the top of the range. I have to say I didn't feel any different with mid range or high range levels. Daily hormonal fluctuation along with proper DHT levels, both of which can be easily achieved on T cream (and no injections other than HCG), does work wonders, it's just a shame it does nothing for my libido, otherwise this would be the perfect protocol.

Pregnenolone skyrockets my libido and so does hCG. The latter however is an E2 factory for me unfortunately. Had my first real panic attack (legitimately thought I was dying) on hCG from E2 spiking.

it's wild you're not getting any libido on cream + hCG. It could be high E2, which kills libido for some past a certain point. How's your erection quality?

 

[ziegen]

Pregnenolone skyrockets my libido and so does hCG. The latter however is an E2 factory for me unfortunately. Had my first real panic attack (legitimately thought I was dying) on hCG from E2 spiking.

it's wild you're not getting any libido on cream + hCG. It could be high E2, which kills libido for some past a certain point. How's your erection quality?

For a couple of weeks I even added 20mg of Pregnenolone and DHEA daily along with HCG, but it still did nothing. My E2 is always good, you can see my updates and see that it's never even close to being high, some might even say it's a bit on the lower side compared to T. When I used standard doses of DHT derivatives or really low dose AI, I always felt low E2 symptoms, usually mood changes. I even tried increasing E2 and while levels increased I didn't get any negatives or positives, so I can handle it well, but gain nothing from it. HCG also doesn't increase my E2 too much, it seems to rise slightly, but proportionately with T. I have no blood flow issues, this has always been good, however I do have ED due to having completely 0 libido and arousal at all possible times. Can't really get an erection, or rather at the right time, if you're never aroused.

It seems I'm just one of the few people that on TRT doesn't get any libido benefits, or worse yet, some lose libido. I guess that's just how some of us are made and nobody really knows what's going on. That is not to say that TRT does nothing for me, I have roughly 15 symptoms resolved, some were present since I was a child, so quality of life is way up.

There are some theories floating around, but none can be proven, tested for or solved, so it's a moot point in any case. For my personal belief, I'd use Occam's razor, meaning that the simplest reason is usually the correct one, and, in my opinion, the simplest explanation is that having your hormonal system shutdown prevents you from getting full symptom relief. I'd say this is somewhat "proven" by HCG, as many report benefits which don't seem related to the minor increases in T and E2, hell some get benefits, but higher E2 brings some unrelated negatives. During my research in the last months, it seems people also use Kisspeptin, which is a hormone in the hypothalamus, and many report improvements to libido and other benefits. I was recently looking into Enclomiphene and came across @Cataceous experimentations with GnRH, which is another hormone in the hypothalamus, and he noted several improvements, including libido. He used really low dose TRT along with Enclo and multiple injections of GnRH spread throughout the day, a difficult experiment to say the least.

So Kisspeptin, GnRH, LH and FSH form the hormonal chain to the production of sex hormones. While their main function is to produce sex hormones it does seem like they play an additional role in the function of your body, that isn't truly understood and seems to be different for everyone. Maybe I get no libido benefits due to the shutdown, meanwhile another man might never fix his sleep issues. Based on the fact that many of us are on TRT with good results, after dialing in, it seems that having proper sex hormone levels is more imporant for general health, than having these hormones running, but they do seem to play some role. I think if we could prevent shutdown on any hormonal therapy we would see massive overall improvements. Many note improvements with just HCG, which mimics only LH. What if libido for me hides in one of the other ones or multiple ones? What if we could mimic any other of these four? What if we could mimic all of them on the same time? Some closing questions.

 

[Cataceous]

... I was recently looking into Enclomiphene and came across @Cataceous experimentations with GnRH, which is another hormone in the hypothalamus, and he noted several improvements, including libido. He used really low dose TRT along with Enclo and multiple injections of GnRH spread throughout the day, a difficult experiment to say the least.
...

The protocol is effective, but requires a lot of motivation to sustain. That's why I've expressed enthusiasm for short acting testosterone, such as nasal gels. With these there is continued production of those upstream hormones, along with less downstream disruption.

 

[Jerajera]

So Kisspeptin, GnRH, LH and FSH form the hormonal chain to the production of sex hormones. While their main function is to produce sex hormones it does seem like they play an additional role in the function of your body, that isn't truly understood and seems to be different for everyone. Maybe I get no libido benefits due to the shutdown, meanwhile another man might never fix his sleep issues. Based on the fact that many of us are on TRT with good results, after dialing in, it seems that having proper sex hormone levels is more imporant for general health, than having these hormones running, but they do seem to play some role. I think if we could prevent shutdown on any hormonal therapy we would see massive overall improvements.

I completely agree. Have you tried Kisspeptin? I got some a while back but still haven't tried it (was busy experimenting with cream, neurosteroids, etc...). I've heard very good things from several men who'd incorporated it into their protocol, especially concerning libido, and even with once/day injections of 100-200mcg.

If you haven't tried it I would definitely give it a shot.

 

[RotnGun]

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it.

@ziegen,

I'm on a cream protocol as well and it has been by far the most successful protocol I've been on in 4+ years of trying everything under the sun (Test C/E/P, Primo/Masteron, Adex, Asin, cream on scrotum and non-scrotum, hCG, Pregnenolone, DHEA, HGH...).

For me neurosteroids are the missing piece. Cream feels better than any other Testosterone modality by far, but without neurosteroids something is missing. I'm right now in the process of fine tuning Preg/DHEA in different forms (topical vs oral (micronized IR or SR), ...), but 3 clicks AM on the scrotum + 5mg/day slow release micronized Preg (compounded pharma) and 25mg/day topical DHEA had me feeling better than I ever did in my life. Libido super high also.

I switched to non-scrotal for the Test cream as an experiment but didn't feel nearly as good. Thing is I changed too many things at once unfortunately (switched to 2x/day application and switched oral Preg for topical), but regardless I think a lot of the insanely high confidence and unshakable good mood I was feeling was from the extra DHT from scrotal application. I also think Preg is essential for me.

I'm now back on oral micornized SR Preg + topical DHEA and trying 2x/day scrotal applicationfor Test cream, because just like you my trough is a lot (lot) lower than peak on once/day application and I feel slightly lower energy in the morning at trough levels (still much better than pre-TRT though).

Either way, some combo of cream + neurosteroids is an amazing protocol for me, completely life changing. If you haven't tried playing with those I highly recommend it.

Are you using compounded test cream or a brand name?

 

[Jerajera]

Are you using compounded test cream or a brand name?

Compounded. As far as I know there is no pharma brand Test cream except Androforte in Australia which I think is from a pharma company named Lawley. I've actually heard good things about that cream on forums, it's supposed to be applied scrotally and seems to work well.

I don't think there's anything in the US or any other country for that matter when it comes to creams.