Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[William Greystoke]

I definitely wouldn’t go up any further with either test or nandrolone. Ur weekly androgen load is clearly already pretty high lol

To get morning wood back I would probably either lower ur nandrolone dose a bit, or add a small dose of a dht derivative, like proviron, for example. Like even just start with 5mg/ day of proviron. With anything u take, u always want to take the lowest effective dose, to achieve ur goals. When u’ve been in the HRT game as long as I have, u realize that one of the most important things, when it comes to success, is being patient, starting with the lowest effective dose, titrating up slowly, if needed, and not overshooting the sweetspot with things

With u being on a test base, u want to take the lowest effective dose of nandrolone, to achieve ur goals. Test and nandrolone aren’t usually the best when used together. Due to test being a high metabolite converter. Aka it converts into estrogen and dht at pretty high rates, compared to other AAS. And estrogen is the main stimulator of prolactin, in the male body, so it also tends to raise prolactin levels to a pretty good degree.

Then u have nandrolone, that sensitizes estrogen and prolactin receptors, making whatever estrogen and prolactin u have in ur system more potent. Nandrolone also supposedly increases the rate at which testosterone converts into estrogen. And then there’s also a progesterone component, since nandrolone is a progestin. So overall u just have to be careful when using test and nandorlone together. Their individual properties make them a little risky to use together.

So when using a test base, u always want to use the lowest effective dose of nandrolone, to reach ur goals, and when using a nandrolone base, u always want to use the lowest effective dose of test, again to achieve ur goals

Thank you , I will take this in consideration for sure, I am taking test c weekly Mond, Wdnesday and Friday, on Tuesday and Saturday I inject nandrolone, I will lower nandrolone from 150 to 120mg per week, and stay on that for next 2 months to see how I would feel, I tried Proviron fo a period of 8 weeks once and to be honest, didn’t felt anything, 1 week was 10 mg, next 20, and for 10 mg up until I reach 50 mg and stayes there total 8 weeks, but personally didnt felt some difference.
I have a very stressful work, so it is quite usual to sleep only 4,5 hrs per night, sometimes 6 days in a row but that job also demands to be in shape so despite lack of sleep time I would not skip trainings more than 2 days in a row since I made decision to commit myself as much as I can , stress is part of job description and despite all I-like my job, so I also thought that is reason why I didn't felt symptom resolution of low t with smaller starting dosages, and kept titrating up 20 mg every 2 months until I came to 250 mg test cyp and 150 mg nandrolone per week where I felt overall improvement without any side effects so far.I also understand concept of less is better in symptom resolution and that it takes time.I will keep on learning here as much as I can from you guys,Salute

 

[lebroseixoife]

I am curious. If you were to switch to this protocol, how would you lower your test dose from 170mg to 40mg? Gradually, or skip a week or two of shots?

 

[Gman86]

I am curious. If you were to switch to this protocol, how would you lower your test dose from 170mg to 40mg? Gradually, or skip a week or two of shots?

After 11 years on HRT, I don’t bother worrying about that stuff anymore. Anytime I change protocols, I just start the new protocol asap, and obv drop the previous protocol at the same time. So in ur example, I would simply lower my dose to 40mg right away, and not worry about making sure levels stay exactly where u want them during the transition period. This has seemed to workout fine for me. Been doing it this way for years without any issues

I know for an AAS to reach steady state, or for an AAS to get out of ur system, it takes roughly 5 half lives, but what people might not realize is that the majority of ur dosage gets into ur system during the first few half lives, and likewise the majority of what u have in ur system is out of it in a few half lives. Then the rest trickles in or out over the last 2-3 half lives. So the part of the transition period where u’ll notice changes is actually shorter than one might think. So because of this, I stopped bothering trying to do things perfectly and adjust dosages to try and keep levels as stable as possible during protocol changes. And like I said, I haven’t noticed any issues that have caused me to stop doing protocol changes this way

 

[lebroseixoife]

If someone were to add a master prop to this experiment, what kind of weekly dose would we discuss? I saw that you recommended 5mg of Proviron, but I am curious about the Masteron prop, test prop, and NPP. Would 30-40mg a week be enough masteron?
I am currently running this experiment, although in the beginning stages. I am running 30-40mg of Test Prop and 175mg of NPP weekly, with dosing happening EOD, but I am running into issues (EQ and Libido, low mood and motivation), and I think adding a low-dose DHT might help, but I do not want to lower my estrogen.

 

[Seagal]

If someone were to add a master prop to this experiment, what kind of weekly dose would we discuss? I saw that you recommended 5mg of Proviron, but I am curious about the Masteron prop, test prop, and NPP. Would 30-40mg a week be enough masteron?
I am currently running this experiment, although in the beginning stages. I am running 30-40mg of Test Prop and 175mg of NPP weekly, with dosing happening EOD, but I am running into issues (EQ and Libido, low mood and motivation), and I think adding a low-dose DHT might help, but I do not want to lower my estrogen.

That then would no longer be a nandrolone base TRT, imo, if you try adding the androgenic characteristics of T. Anyway, naming doesn't matter, it's important that it works for you.

 

[Gman86]

If someone were to add a master prop to this experiment, what kind of weekly dose would we discuss? I saw that you recommended 5mg of Proviron, but I am curious about the Masteron prop, test prop, and NPP. Would 30-40mg a week be enough masteron?
I am currently running this experiment, although in the beginning stages. I am running 30-40mg of Test Prop and 175mg of NPP weekly, with dosing happening EOD, but I am running into issues (EQ and Libido, low mood and motivation), and I think adding a low-dose DHT might help, but I do not want to lower my estrogen.

Ya so that’s the thing I’ve always gone back and forth in my head about, in regards to adding a dht derivative to a nandrolone base. Can it be beneficial due to it’s dht like properties, or is it counter productive since guys usually keep estrogen on the lowish side, when using a nandrolone base, and certain dht derivatives could inhibit estrogen and drop it too low?

I don’t really know if it’s possible to theoretically figure out in ur head. Trust me, I’ve tried lol. I think the only way to know is to give it a shot and find out

So if I were u, I would do a quick experiment with mast prop, that’s gonna be in and out of ur system very quickly, and see if u notice any improvements, or only notice things getting worse.

Just like with anything else, I would start with a very low dose, assess things, and slowly titrate up as needed. So if I were u, I would add 10mg of mast prop per week, do that for like 10-14-days, and if u don’t notice any negatives, or notice nothing at all, I would then bump it up to 20mg/ week, and again assess over the next 10-14 days, preferably 14 over 10. And kept repeating that until u hopefully find improvements that u like, or conclusively figure out it’s only making things worse, and then obv discontinue the mast prop and let it fully get out of ur system

If this experiment doesn’t workout for u, u might need to up ur test dose a little. Maybe ur E2 isn’t high enough. Do u know if ur like a low, normal, or high aromatizer?

 

[Seagal]

Ya so that’s the thing I’ve always gone back and forth in my head about, in regards to adding a dht derivative to a nandrolone base. Can it be beneficial due to it’s dht like properties, or is it counter productive since guys usually keep estrogen on the lowish side, when using a nandrolone base, and certain dht derivatives could inhibit estrogen and drop it too low?

I don’t really know if it’s possible to theoretically figure out in ur head. Trust me, I’ve tried lol. I think the only way to know is to give it a shot and find out

So if I were u, I would do a quick experiment with mast prop, that’s gonna be in and out of ur system very quickly, and see if u notice any improvements, or only notice things getting worse.

Just like with anything else, I would start with a very low dose, assess things, and slowly titrate up as needed. So if I were u, I would add 10mg of mast prop per week, do that for like 10-14-days, and if u don’t notice any negatives, or notice nothing at all, I would then bump it up to 20mg/ week, and again assess over the next 10-14 days, preferably 14 over 10. And kept repeating that until u hopefully find improvements that u like, or conclusively figure out it’s only making things worse, and then obv discontinue the mast prop and let it fully get out of ur system

If this experiment doesn’t workout for u, u might need to up ur test dose a little. Maybe ur E2 isn’t high enough. Do u know if ur like a low, normal, or high aromatizer?

Or consider what this guy is doing to manage estrogen directly. Leave out T completely and instead use exogenous E. No more trouble with the effects of DHT derivatives on aromatization.

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[Gman86]

Or consider what this guy is doing to manage estrogen directly. Leave out T completely and instead use exogenous E. No more trouble with the effects of DHT derivatives on aromatization.

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I’m at work and was only able to watch 6 mins of this so far, but ya he’s basically come to the same conclusion that a lot of nandorlone based guys have. That for some guys, test works great, but for others, it can be hard to dial in due to the fact that it converts highly into estrogen and dht, and also upregulates prolactin production, which can make it difficult for some guys to get ideal test levels, that make them function and feel good, whilst at the same time having ideal estrogen, dht and prolactin levels, that also make them feel and function good

He’s basically using androgens that don’t convert much, or at all, into estrogen, dht and prolactin, and then using injectable estrogen to get his estrogen levels where he feels and functions best at. He’s controlling androgens and estrogens independently, which is basically the main benefit to using a nandrolone base. Opposed to a test base, where if u raise test levels, estrogen levels increase. U decrease test levels, estrogen levels decrease. Ur not able to control them independently, without having to use another compound to control estrogen.

Can’t wait to watch the rest of the vid. Been following this guy for years. He’s nuts, but I do love the experiments he runs on himself, and imo, he does have some valuable information to share. Again, due to actually running many different experiments on himself, and not just relying on studies and info on the internet telling him what should happen if he were to do X,Y and Z. He does the experiments for himself, and gets actual real world data on what actually happens. Not what theoretically should happen

 

[lebroseixoife]

Ya so that’s the thing I’ve always gone back and forth in my head about, in regards to adding a dht derivative to a nandrolone base. Can it be beneficial due to it’s dht like properties, or is it counter productive since guys usually keep estrogen on the lowish side, when using a nandrolone base, and certain dht derivatives could inhibit estrogen and drop it too low?

I don’t really know if it’s possible to theoretically figure out in ur head. Trust me, I’ve tried lol. I think the only way to know is to give it a shot and find out

So if I were u, I would do a quick experiment with mast prop, that’s gonna be in and out of ur system very quickly, and see if u notice any improvements, or only notice things getting worse.

Just like with anything else, I would start with a very low dose, assess things, and slowly titrate up as needed. So if I were u, I would add 10mg of mast prop per week, do that for like 10-14-days, and if u don’t notice any negatives, or notice nothing at all, I would then bump it up to 20mg/ week, and again assess over the next 10-14 days, preferably 14 over 10. And kept repeating that until u hopefully find improvements that u like, or conclusively figure out it’s only making things worse, and then obv discontinue the mast prop and let it fully get out of ur system

If this experiment doesn’t workout for u, u might need to up ur test dose a little. Maybe ur E2 isn’t high enough. Do u know if ur like a low, normal, or high aromatizer?

I am a low aromatizer. My ratio has always been lower vs higher, no matter what the test dose. I've tried HCG in the past, and it's been meh, but I might try it again once I get further into this protocol. Might phase out test all together.
Right now, I am running 175mg of NPP every week, which is 50mg EOD, and, 52mg of test prop a week, or 15mg EOD. My libido and EQ is shit on injection day, but comes back the next day or in the evening. So, EOD things are great and EOD they are not. The nandrolone is great, but getting the test right has been my difficulty over the past two years.
I did try the oral estradiol valerate experiment, of like .5mg ED, but it relaxed me so much that I did not feel like doing anything, and if I was able to have good EQ, I orgasmed fast.
There has to be something there with test, but not sure exactly why or how it kills the libido and EQ for a few days in test cyp or test prop.

 

[lebroseixoife]

Or consider what this guy is doing to manage estrogen directly. Leave out T completely and instead use exogenous E. No more trouble with the effects of DHT derivatives on aromatization.

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I made a post on that. Feel free to jump in.
Primobolan/Tren HRT No Test

 

[Seagal]

I made a post on that. Feel free to jump in.
Primobolan/Tren HRT No Test

Did you only try the dose of 0.5mg ED? I guess one needs to be patient and start low and increase slowly to find the right dose. Sounds like you tried one dose, frequency setting and then gave up.

 

[lebroseixoife]

Did you only try the dose of 0.5mg ED? I guess one needs to be patient and start low and increase slowly to find the right dose. Sounds like you tried one dose, frequency setting and then gave up.

.5mg of oral estradiol valerate? Yeah, I did it at that level for a day or two, but it wiped me out.

 

[Seagal]

.5mg of oral estradiol valerate? Yeah, I did it at that level for a day or two, but it wiped me out.

Why not start with 0.1mg per day?

 

[lebroseixoife]

Why not start with 0.1mg per day?

Hmm. Okay. Why not.

 

[lebroseixoife]

The twist is that nandrolone, when used with a compound like testosterone, will increase testosterone’s aromatization rate, aka increase the amount of estradiol that testosterone converts into. Nandrolone also sensitizes estrogen and prolactin receptors, making whatever estrogen and prolactin in the system feel more potent. So yes, if ur using 100mg of testosterone, and prolactin is say at a 10, and then u add nandrolone, it’s very possible that u will see prolactin increase, due to nandrolone causing the testosterone to convert into E2 at a higher rate, and then the higher E2 stimulating more prolactin to be produced. But the nandrolone will increase E2 and prolactin extremely little directly, since like I’ve said, it takes around 300mg of nandrolone to add 5-6 points to ur serum estradiol total. So adding in 50-100mg of nandrolone to a test base will directly add basically nothing to ur total E2 and prolactin levels. It’s only adding to these levels through the mechanism of increasing testosterone‘s aromatization rate.

Hey, gman, how did you conclude that nandrolone increases the aromatization of estradiol?

 

[Gman86]

I am a low aromatizer. My ratio has always been lower vs higher, no matter what the test dose. I've tried HCG in the past, and it's been meh, but I might try it again once I get further into this protocol. Might phase out test all together.
Right now, I am running 175mg of NPP every week, which is 50mg EOD, and, 52mg of test prop a week, or 15mg EOD. My libido and EQ is shit on injection day, but comes back the next day or in the evening. So, EOD things are great and EOD they are not. The nandrolone is great, but getting the test right has been my difficulty over the past two years.
I did try the oral estradiol valerate experiment, of like .5mg ED, but it relaxed me so much that I did not feel like doing anything, and if I was able to have good EQ, I orgasmed fast.
There has to be something there with test, but not sure exactly why or how it kills the libido and EQ for a few days in test cyp or test prop.

I wonder if ur estrogen levels rise enough to feel good the day after injection, and then fall back a little too low on injection day. If ur a low aromatizer, u might need to bump ur test dose up a little

My mood and EQ are pretty damn good on 250mg deca and 50mg test prop. Sensitivity could definitely be better tho. But it’s been that way for like 5 years now. So it has nothing to do with the nandrolone base. Had the same thing on a test base. So finishing faster is actually what I’m looking for lol. But the lazy part of u taking oral estradiol obv doesn’t sound ideal

 

[Gman86]

Hey, gman, how did you conclude that nandrolone increases the aromatization of estradiol?

Nah I don’t think through my labs I can conclude that. Maybe tho if I really take a deep dive into them all and compare different labs I’ve had done on different protocols. My conclusion atm is that if it does, it doesn’t do it by a significant degree. So it’s not something I really take into consideration much. I personally go more by how I feel than labs anyways

 

[lebroseixoife]

I wonder if ur estrogen levels rise enough to feel good the day after injection, and then fall back a little too low on injection day. If ur a low aromatizer, u might need to bump ur test dose up a little

My mood and EQ are pretty damn good on 250mg deca and 50mg test prop. Sensitivity could definitely be better tho. But it’s been that way for like 5 years now. So it has nothing to do with the nandrolone base. Had the same thing on a test base. So finishing faster is actually what I’m looking for lol. But the lazy part of u taking oral estradiol obv doesn’t sound ideal

I'll give the 100mcg of E2V EOD a try. Oral E2V is out of the system in less than 24 or so hours.

For now I am going to stay on prop, and ride out my supply and experiment with it; so many say test prop is the way to go. Perhaps even go ED with test prop, just to say I did it, but I suspect it will not yield better results.

Before nandrolone, I felt better on test cyp e7d or e8d. Weirdest thing, and contrary to current recommendations. I am thinking test cyp of every 6 days at like 50mg a week might give me a good steady amount of E2 with Nandrolone once I have experimented with test prop enough. We'll see.

 

[Gman86]

I'll give the 100mcg of E2V EOD a try. Oral E2V is out of the system in less than 24 or so hours.

For now I am going to stay on prop, and ride out my supply and experiment with it; so many say test prop is the way to go. Perhaps even go ED with test prop, just to say I did it, but I suspect it will not yield better results.

Before nandrolone, I felt better on test cyp e7d or e8d. Weirdest thing, and contrary to current recommendations. I am thinking test cyp of every 6 days at like 50mg a week might give me a good steady amount of E2 with Nandrolone once I have experimented with test prop enough. We'll see.

Have u considered trying to turn ur oral estradiol valerate into injectable estradiol valerate? Think that’s what the trenemy guy does. Was just watching a few of his vids and he said it’s extremely easy for him to make injectable estradiol valerate. I’m assuming he’s making it form oral tablets of the stuff

 

[lebroseixoife]

Have u considered trying to turn ur oral estradiol valerate into injectable estradiol valerate? Think that’s what the trenemy guy does. Was just watching a few of his vids and he said it’s extremely easy for him to make injectable estradiol valerate. I’m assuming he’s making it form oral tablets of the stuff

I have E2V oil, but decided to start with oral. There aren't too many domestic sources of estradiol valerate oil, and Turkish Pharm has it domestically, but you gotta buy at least $200 of stuff and the E2V is 100mg/mL, so dilution is required, which requires filtering (unless your BB is already sterile and my is not) and all that. Way too much work, but once you have it, you will have a pile of it for a very very long time. Ordering via India in small ampules seems more productive; this is what I did. Oral seemed easier to start experimenting with.