Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[Guided_by_Voices]

If true, this could be a partial explanation for "steroid belly". I've also heard other mechanisms suggested, in particular there being a general property of 17-AA compounds which can also cause bloat. I've seen several fairly obvious "high-dose" people with what looked like a soccer ball in their lower abdomen while being fairly lean overall, so I'm quite curious about what's causing that.

 

[Gman86]

If true, this could be a partial explanation for "steroid belly". I've also heard other mechanisms suggested, in particular there being a general property of 17-AA compounds which can also cause bloat. I've seen several fairly obvious "high-dose" people with what looked like a soccer ball in their lower abdomen while being fairly lean overall, so I'm quite curious about what's causing that.

the nutrient partitioning effects of AAS isn’t what causes an extended belly look.

This has been pretty unanimously attributed to growth hormone and insulin abuse. Which is why back in the golden era of bodybuilding u didn’t see the distended belly look on anyone

Speaking of the golden era of bodybuilding. The golden era is great because there’s a lot of take aways from it that we can learn from, due to how different their AAS approach was, compared to what guys are using currently. The golden era of bodybuilding was full of guys that weren’t as big and ripped, but were still very muscular, with tighter waists and less distended stomachs, as well as better skin and hair. This was all due to most of them not using testosterone as their primary AAS. They didn’t have ai’s back in the golden era, so they all mostly stayed away from test. Without an ai, very high dose test will result in a host of sides. Hair loss, bad skin, bloat and puffy look. Most of the guys in the golden era used nandrolone as their main AAS, or used dbol and primo together, like Arnold was notorious for using, for example. Long story short, I don’t think high dose cycles lead to any of these guys in the golden era having fatty liver disease. Or if they did, it didn’t distend their stomachs around their livers in any observable fashion.

 

[NomDePlume]

didnt arnold buy a new liver transplant? or its rumours?
and had heart operations too?

It's been said Arnold has had multiple heart operations, which he tries to keep quiet. Not sure about a liver transplant, but with all the oral Dbol he used it would not surprise me.

 

[Belekas]

the nutrient partitioning effects of AAS isn’t what causes an extended belly look.

This has been pretty unanimously attributed to growth hormone and insulin abuse. Which is why back in the golden era of bodybuilding u didn’t see the distended belly look on anyone

Speaking of the golden era of bodybuilding. The golden era is great because there’s a lot of take aways from it that we can learn from, due to how different their AAS approach was, compared to what guys are using currently. The golden era of bodybuilding was full of guys that weren’t as big and ripped, but were still very muscular, with tighter waists and less distended stomachs, as well as better skin and hair. This was all due to most of them not using testosterone as their primary AAS. They didn’t have ai’s back in the golden era, so they all mostly stayed away from test. Without an ai, very high dose test will result in a host of sides. Hair loss, bad skin, bloat and puffy look. Most of the guys in the golden era used nandrolone as their main AAS, or used dbol and primo together, like Arnold was notorious for using, for example. Long story short, I don’t think high dose cycles lead to any of these guys in the golden era having fatty liver disease. Or if they did, it didn’t distend their stomachs around their livers in any observable fashion.

Spot on brother and I couldn't write it out better then you. Now it just makes me want to try deca HRT even more hehehe TBF after all the experimenting over the years and reading, researching, chatting, etc, I seriously think theres def a protocol out there for those that are having issues with classic TRT. Makes me wanna open that UGL deca vial again and take the risk lol

 

[Gman86]

didnt arnold buy a new liver transplant? or its rumours?
and had heart operations too?

ya I’m almost positive that he’s had multiple heart operations. Not sure about the liver transplant lol

 

[Gman86]

Spot on brother and I couldn't write it out better than you. Now it just makes me want to try deca HRT even more hehehe TBF after all the experimenting over the years and reading, researching, chatting, etc, I seriously think theres def a protocol out there for those that are having issues with classic TRT. Makes me wanna open that UGL deca vial again and take the risk lol

Do it man! Lol. Guys in taeian’s group also report much better lab markers on high dose nandorlone only compared to when they’ve run high dose test cycles in the past

here’s another review on nandrolone only that might get u excited about lol. Think he starts talking about his deca only experience at 33:50 into the vid. Until around 1:04:00 I believe

 

[Belekas]

Do it man! Lol. Guys in taeian’s group also report much better lab markers on high dose nandorlone only compared to when they’ve run high dose test cycles in the past

here’s another review on nandrolone only that might get u excited about lol. Think he starts talking about his deca only experience at 33:50 into the vid. Until around 1:04:00 I believe

Thanks mate will def watch this tonight

 

[brookseth]

I think I'm going to give this a try.

Going to use NPP so use a Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday injection schedule.

Thinking of doing the following:
50mg NPP per - 150mg total
10mg Test E per - 30mg total
300iu HCG per - 900iu Total

OR

200mg NPP total
(no test)
1200iu HCG total


Thoughts?

Also anything I should consider with supplements as well? for libido purposes with TRT I've been raking 50mg pregenolone and 10mg dhea daily. Should I revise or have any considerations along with this?

 

[Gman86]

I think I'm going to give this a try.

Going to use NPP so use a Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday injection schedule.

Thinking of doing the following:
50mg NPP per - 150mg total
10mg Test E per - 30mg total
300iu HCG per - 900iu Total

OR

200mg NPP total
(no test)
1200iu HCG total


Thoughts?

Also anything I should consider with supplements as well? for libido purposes with TRT I've been raking 50mg pregenolone and 10mg dhea daily. Should I revise or have any considerations along with this?

What’s ur reasoning for using hcg? U using it for fertility purposes?

do u feel better on the preg and DHEA? Only thing I worry about with taking those is that it adds too many variables, and if u find it hard to dial in, it’s going to be very difficult to know whether u need to adjust ur nandrolone, test or hcg doses, or adjust ur preg/ dhea doses, or possibly take the preg/ dhea out completely. Idk, I might try to dial in on this protocol without the preg and dhea to start

I think either protocol could work. U could try the 150 nandrolone and 30 test, and titrate up ur test dose by 10mg/ week, as needed, until ur reach ur sweet spot. Assuming u don’t feel great on 150 nandrolone and 30 test right from the start. Maybe u will.

or u could start with 200 nandrolone solo, then if u don’t feel great, u could start adding in 10mg of test per week, and lower nandrolone to 190mg/ week, see how u feel, and if u don’t feel great, repeat the same steps. Increase test by 10mg, to 20mg/ week, and lower nandrolone by 10mg, to 180mg/ week. Actually, as I’m writing this, starting with 200mg of nandrolone solo and doing it this way I think would be the smarter way to go. I think it would just increase ur chances of success more than starting with 150 nandrolone and 30 test

whatever dose of hcg u decide to use, with either protocol, I would just make sure u pick an hcg dose, and stay consistent with it throughout the trial and error process

 

[Mr.63]

I am definitely going to try this to. After years of not finding the sweetspot on test alone its time to try something different.
But lets say you start with the nandrolone decanoate, could u get away with only pinning deca once per week? Same question when u want to add in little test like 10mg.. do you pin ur test once or twice per week when you injects low doses like 10-20mg per week?

 

[Gman86]

I am definitely going to try this to. After years of not finding the sweetspot on test alone its time to try something different.
But lets say you start with the nandrolone decanoate, could u get away with only pinning deca once per week? Same question when u want to add in little test like 10mg.. do you pin ur test once or twice per week when you injects low doses like 10-20mg per week?

Ya u can definitely inject deca once per week. And u could inject once per week with something like test cyp or enanthate, even in super low doses, but I’d probably stick to injecting the test at least twice per week, just to be on the safe side. Most guys can probably get away with once a week tho I would imagine. It’s all about trial and error and what works for us as individuals tho

 

[Mr.63]

Ya u can definitely inject deca once per week. And u could inject once per week with something like test cyp or enanthate, even in super low doses, but I’d probably stick to injecting the test at least twice per week, just to be on the safe side. Most guys can probably get away with once a week tho I would imagine. It’s all about trial and error and what works for us as individuals tho

Im not sure if u already said it but how long did you do the 200mg deca with low doses test? I remember you had great succes with it.
But many of the guys who do the deca only end up after a week or 6-8 having really flat emotions.. most of them quit then. Like this guy Dtren, if u read the comments someone asks if he was still doing it, and a guy replied he quit after 8 weeks due to feeling emotionally very flat. This is where i think low dose test would come in to play?
Also if one is to introduce test after couple of weeks on deca only, would you suggest to up the dose 10mg per week or stay at 10mg for 4-6 weeks, then go up to 20mg for 4-6 weeks and so on.

 

[brookseth]

What’s ur reasoning for using hcg? U using it for fertility purposes?

do u feel better on the preg and DHEA? Only thing I worry about with taking those is that it adds too many variables, and if u find it hard to dial in, it’s going to be very difficult to know whether u need to adjust ur nandrolone, test or hcg doses, or adjust ur preg/ dhea doses, or possibly take the preg/ dhea out completely. Idk, I might try to dial in on this protocol without the preg and dhea to start

I think either protocol could work. U could try the 150 nandrolone and 30 test, and titrate up ur test dose by 10mg/ week, as needed, until ur reach ur sweet spot. Assuming u don’t feel great on 150 nandrolone and 30 test right from the start. Maybe u will.

or u could start with 200 nandrolone solo, then if u don’t feel great, u could start adding in 10mg of test per week, and lower nandrolone to 190mg/ week, see how u feel, and if u don’t feel great, repeat the same steps. Increase test by 10mg, to 20mg/ week, and lower nandrolone by 10mg, to 180mg/ week. Actually, as I’m writing this, starting with 200mg of nandrolone solo and doing it this way I think would be the smarter way to go. I think it would just increase ur chances of success more than starting with 150 nandrolone and 30 test

whatever dose of hcg u decide to use, with either protocol, I would just make sure u pick an hcg dose, and stay consistent with it throughout the trial and error process

HCG for sensitivity and testicle volume.
The preg and dhea help me with libido when on my current T regiment.

 

[Gman86]

Im not sure if u already said it but how long did you do the 200mg deca with low doses test? I remember you had great succes with it.
But many of the guys who do the deca only end up after a week or 6-8 having really flat emotions.. most of them quit then. Like this guy Dtren, if u read the comments someone asks if he was still doing it, and a guy replied he quit after 8 weeks due to feeling emotionally very flat. This is where i think low dose test would come in to play?
Also if one is to introduce test after couple of weeks on deca only, would you suggest to up the dose 10mg per week or stay at 10mg for 4-6 weeks, then go up to 20mg for 4-6 weeks and so on.

I did the deca base with low dose test for around 10 months total. Ya overall it was a really good experience. Felt cool, calm and collected all the time. Was able to deal with stress very well. Mood was good, sleep was good, energy was decent. Libido was pretty solid. And erections were the best they’ve ever been while on HRT. Literally only stopped because I thought it might hinder my fertility more than a test base. But after learning more about nandrolone, and being very fertile while continuing to always take at least 100mg of nandrolone with my test based protocols, I don’t think nandrolone inhibits fertility more than testosterone does. Or if it does, it’s negligible to the point that it’s not something to be concerned with, at least imo/ ime

and ya, unless ur a high aromatizer, ur going to need a relatively high dose of nandrolone, when using it solo, to get enough estrogen in ur system to where u feel emotions like u should, and have enough DHN in ur system to where u have enough drive/ motivation. So that’s where a very small dose of test comes to the rescue. It solves both problems. It gives the minimal amount of E2, in order to feel emotions like u should, as well as boost libido a bit, if that’s also something that was lacking on nandrolone solo. And then the minimal amount of test will also get a little dht in ur system, which will help with drive/ motivation.

what I love most about a nandrolone based protocol is that it’s so easy to dial in. U literally pick a dose of nandrolone, based on what ur gym/ body composition goals are, and keep that consistent. Then start with a very minimal dose of test, say 10-20mg/ week, and simply do that for 6 weeks, if u can make it that long, and then titrate ur test dose up 10mg/ week more, as needed, if ur not already feeling optimal. So if u don’t care about the gym and body composition, u can use something like 100mg/ week of nandrolone. If u care more about that stuff, use a higher dose. Like Ive mentioned before when talking about my experience, I personally used 200mg of nandrolone per week, and kept that dose consistent the entire time I was on the nandrolone based protocol. That dose seemed to work very well for me, paired with doses of test ranging from 40mg/ week up to 100mg/ week. I think 40-60mg/ week being my sweet spot.

i would absolutely not increase ur test dose every week lol. Thats way too frequent. To give urself the best chance of success, I would wait as close to the 6 week mark as u can, before upping ur total test dose per week by 10mg. But I know 6 weeks is a VERY LONG TIME to wait if ur not feeling good. So I totally understand wanting to adjust ur dose more frequently. i would just at least try to get as close to 4 weeks on the same test dose before increasing it each time as u can. Unless ur using test prop. If ur using test prop u should be fine adjusting ur test dose every 2 weeks while trying to dial in and find ur sweetspot

 

[Gman86]

HCG for sensitivity and testicle volume.
The preg and dhea help me with libido when on my current T regiment.

Gocha. I would just keep ur HCG dose as low as u can, while maintaining the benefits ur looking for from it. Ime, no guy needs to go above 1000iu’s per week to get those benefits, and I’ve seen plenty of guys report getting those benefits from as little as 350iu’s per week.

and again, just use the minimal dosages of preg and dhea that u can, and just keep the doses consistent throughout the trial and error period if u do decide to give a nandrolone based protocol a shot. Just want to basically just keep any variables that could affect u dialing in to a minimum.

 

[Mr.63]

I did the deca base with low dose test for around 10 months total. Ya overall it was a really good experience. Felt cool, calm and collected all the time. Was able to deal with stress very well. Mood was good, sleep was good, energy was decent. Libido was pretty solid. And erections were the best they’ve ever been while on HRT. Literally only stopped because I thought it might hinder my fertility more than a test base. But after learning more about nandrolone, and being very fertile while continuing to always take at least 100mg of nandrolone with my test based protocols, I don’t think nandrolone inhibits fertility more than testosterone does. Or if it does, it’s negligible to the point that it’s not something to be concerned with, at least imo/ ime

and ya, unless ur a high aromatizer, ur going to need a relatively high dose of nandrolone, when using it solo, to get enough estrogen in ur system to where u feel emotions like u should, and have enough DHN in ur system to where u have enough drive/ motivation. So that’s where a very small dose of test comes to the rescue. It solves both problems. It gives the minimal amount of E2, in order to feel emotions like u should, as well as boost libido a bit, if that’s also something that was lacking on nandrolone solo. And then the minimal amount of test will also get a little dht in ur system, which will help with drive/ motivation.

what I love most about a nandrolone based protocol is that it’s so easy to dial in. U literally pick a dose of nandrolone, based on what ur gym/ body composition goals are, and keep that consistent. Then start with a very minimal dose of test, say 10-20mg/ week, and simply do that for 6 weeks, if u can make it that long, and then titrate ur test dose up 10mg/ week more, as needed, if ur not already feeling optimal. So if u don’t care about the gym and body composition, u can use something like 100mg/ week of nandrolone. If u care more about that stuff, use a higher dose. Like Ive mentioned before when talking about my experience, I personally used 200mg of nandrolone per week, and kept that dose consistent the entire time I was on the nandrolone based protocol. That dose seemed to work very well for me, paired with doses of test ranging from 40mg/ week up to 100mg/ week. I think 40-60mg/ week being my sweet spot.

i would absolutely not increase ur test dose every week lol. Thats way too frequent. To give urself the best chance of success, I would wait as close to the 6 week mark as u can, before upping ur total test dose per week by 10mg. But I know 6 weeks is a VERY LONG TIME to wait if ur not feeling good. So I totally understand wanting to adjust ur dose more frequently. i would just at least try to get as close to 4 weeks on the same test dose before increasing it each time as u can. Unless ur using test prop. If ur using test prop u should be fine adjusting ur test dose every 2 weeks while trying to dial in and find ur sweetspot

Thank you very much for sharing your experience!

 

[brookseth]

Gocha. I would just keep ur HCG dose as low as u can, while maintaining the benefits ur looking for from it. Ime, no guy needs to go above 1000iu’s per week to get those benefits, and I’ve seen plenty of guys report getting those benefits from as little as 350iu’s per week.

and again, just use the minimal dosages of preg and dhea that u can, and just keep the doses consistent throughout the trial and error period if u do decide to give a nandrolone based protocol a shot. Just want to basically just keep any variables that could affect u dialing in to a minimum.

Yea I'm debating totally stopping the preg/dhea and seeing how I am without it (since maybe with nandrolone I'll have the libido I don't on test?) but also don't want to stop and just not have a libido for like 4+ weeks while I'm trying to figure it out. So thats my dilemma.
I took my last shot of TE on Sunday - going to wait until next week Sunday I think to start the NPP. I think by then my test E should be mostly cleared out. I think I decided on doing 200mg NPP, 20 TE and (whatever I now decide between replies to this post and my previous plan) of HCG - split 3x weekly. And then modulating from there if necessary. Or maybe I'll get lucky and that will just be the sweet spot right there.
As for the HCG, for some reason I thought 1000iu per week was fairly normal on TRT? Doesnt @Nelson Vergel do 500iu per injection 2x weekly or something along those lines?

 

[Gman86]

Yea I'm debating totally stopping the preg/dhea and seeing how I am without it (since maybe with nandrolone I'll have the libido I don't on test?) but also don't want to stop and just not have a libido for like 4+ weeks while I'm trying to figure it out. So thats my dilemma.
I took my last shot of TE on Sunday - going to wait until next week Sunday I think to start the NPP. I think by then my test E should be mostly cleared out. I think I decided on doing 200mg NPP, 20 TE and (whatever I now decide between replies to this post and my previous plan) of HCG - split 3x weekly. And then modulating from there if necessary. Or maybe I'll get lucky and that will just be the sweet spot right there.
As for the HCG, for some reason I thought 1000iu per week was fairly normal on TRT? Doesnt @Nelson Vergel do 500iu per injection 2x weekly or something along those lines?

So the 1000iu’s/ week is pretty much just the old school way guys used it for so many years, and I think a lot of guys still have it stuck in their head that 1000iu’s/ week is what should be used.

if ur currently trying to conceive, while on HRT, I do actually recommend using at least 1000iu’s/ week. 1000iu’s/ week is my go to anytime I need to be fertile, and has worked like a charm for me. Baby coming at the end of february, for the record lol. And I’m 37 and been on HRT for over 10 years now, for reference.

apart from fertility, what guys have found, through trial and error, is that anecdotally they could use much lower dosages than 1000iu’s/ week, and still get all the benefits that they were getting with 1000iu’s/ week, without the sides that can sometimes come with using a high dose of HCG like that. There’s been numerous anecdotes of men saying that 500iu’s/ week gave them all the benefits, without the sides. And there’s even been a few guys here that report that 350iu’s/ week was plenty for them, and gave them all the benefits they were looking for, again without the sides that can come with higher dosages of HCG. So moral of the story is basically just like with most things, as far as hrt goes, u want to start with the lowest dose that u think will give u the benefits that ur looking for, and titrate up, as needed.

but overall I don’t think dropping the preg and dhea, even just temporarily, is a bad thing. I definitely think decreasing the amount of variables to consider, when dialing in, is a big advantage, and increases ur chances of getting dialed faster by a huge factor. I guess that’s probably obvious when u think about It. But I’ve definitely had to learn the hard way before, that having too many variables in the mix/ to consider, when trying to dial in, is just going to decrease ur chances of success, and increase ur frustration levels during the process, and just can be very discouraging, due to how much harder it is to know what step to take next when theres too many variables in the mix, and things aren’t going well. My advice is to do urself a favor and eliminate as many variables as u can before committing to this new protocol.

I really don’t see libido or erections being an issue on a nandrolone base with very low dose test, for the majority of guys. Especially if u do things the right way, when it comes to dialing in on a nandorlone based protocol. Aka start with nandorlone solo, or nandrolone with 10-20mg of test per week, keep ur nandrolone dose the same throughout the whole process, while titrating up ur test dose, as needed, by 10mg/ week, every 4-6 weeks (every 2 weeks for test prop). I’ve been on a nandrolone base again since 12-5-23, and I definitely want it at least twice a day, and erections have been solid.

i think 200 nandrolone and 20 test is a great place to start, and the chances of u feeling pretty good shortly after starting it are pretty high, imo. And for most guys I don’t think they’re going to overshoot their sweetspot with 20mg of test per week. Im
sure there’s some guys that are high aromatizers where 20mg/ week of test might be slightly too high for them, but I think those guys are going to be in the minority, for the most part

 

[brookseth]

Today was my first dose of NPP.
I decided on doing 180mg NPP, 20 TE and 600iu HCG split 3x weekly.
My last dose of TE on previous protocol was 7 days ago so I am going to do ONLY NPP and HCG for the first week then add in the 20mg TE the following.
I'll update how I'm doing as the weeks come

 

[JimGainz]

I always use a Deca base. No issues at all and feel better than on Testosterone