Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[Joseywales95]

So has anyone tried this protocol where normal trt does not sit well with them I.E ED,Acne,Hairloss,BP etc.?

 

[brookseth]

So has anyone tried this protocol where normal trt does not sit well with them I.E ED,Acne,Hairloss,BP etc.?

I did not have success with a nandrolone base personally, but everyone is different.

 

[Gman86]

So has anyone tried this protocol where normal trt does not sit well with them I.E ED,Acne,Hairloss,BP etc.?

I mean I’m on a nandrolone base, and don’t have any of those issues, but I didn’t really have them on a test base either.

But I have heard more anecdotes than I can count where guys switched from a test base, to a nandrolone base, or nandrolone solo, and it resolved all of those issues. Not many of those anecdotes talked about BP, but many of them reported that they no longer suffered from acne or hair loss, and their libidos/ erections were usually either the same as on a test base, or improved in both areas

 

[Joseywales95]

I mean I’m on a nandrolone base, and don’t have any of those issues, but I didn’t really have them on a test base either.

But I have heard more anecdotes than I can count where guys switched from a test base, to a nandrolone base, or nandrolone solo, and it resolved all of those issues. Not many of those anecdotes talked about BP, but many of them reported that they no longer suffered from acne or hair loss, and their libidos/ erections were usually either the same as on a test base, or improved in both areas

Yeah, had problems with ED regardless of TRT dose from 70-200 mg trying out hcg / AIs. Guess I have nothing to lose.

Going to start out 60mg test - 140mg Deca. I have high SHGB and thus low aromatiser even with being on TRT for almost two years.

 

[Gman86]

Yeah, had problems with ED regardless of TRT dose from 70-200 mg trying out hcg / AIs. Guess I have nothing to lose.

Going to start out 60mg test - 140mg Deca. I have high SHGB and thus low aromatiser even with being on TRT for almost two years.

Even with the high SHBG, and possibly being a low aromatizer, I would still start with a lower dose of test. The key to a nandrolone base, is making sure u don’t overshoot ur E2 sweetspot. U always want to start out with as low of a test dose as ur willing to try. So I would say 20mg/ week would be more ideal to start with, but if u don’t want to start that low with the test, I wouldn’t start with more than 30-40mg/ week. 60mg is way too high to start with, imo.

As far as erections go, I would also try to improve them in all the other ways we know can help. Such as improving the state of ur blood vessels as much as possible/ improving cardiovascular function, in general, as much as possible. Best way to do this is to become as insulin sensitive as possible. And best way to do that, is to eat as close to carnivore as u can. If ur like me, and still want ur diet to include a good amount of carbs, just make sure to get those carbs from foods that aren’t going to decrease ur insulin sensitivity much. So stick mainly to things like organic white rice, fruit, raw honey, and flesh of white potatoes. One of the most important micronutrients for a healthy cardiovascular system is K2, which can only be found in animal foods. It’s moderately high in grass fed dairy products. So if ur gonna eat/ drink dairy, just make sure it’s raw, grass fed, unpasteurized and/ or unhomogenized. Inflammation is one of the main causes of cardiovascular disease, and processed/ pasteurized/ homogenized dairy from animals fed grains, is one of the biggest contributors of inflammation in most people’s diets. Also stay away from most grains. Especially any that contain gluten. Another huge contributor to inflammation in most people’s diets. The absolutely main contributor to all cardiovascular disease, however, is crap/ processed oils, mostly found in processed foods. These oils contribute the most, out of any food, to cardiovascular disease, and will also negatively affect overall insulin sensitivity. And then just make sure u eat as much red meat as u can, each day. There’s so many micronutrients in red meat, that cannot be found in other foods, that will improve cardiovascular function, as well as nitric oxide production, which is another thing that will improve erections.

Then just make sure ur working out with weights at least 2-3 times per week. And also lower stress as much as possible, improve sleep as much as u can, and try to get a healthy amount of sunlight on ur skin each day. U do all these things, and there’s no way ur erections don’t improve.

 

[Joseywales95]

Even with the high SHBG, and possibly being a low aromatizer, I would still start with a lower dose of test. The key to a nandrolone base, is making sure u don’t overshoot ur E2 sweetspot. U always want to start out with as low of a test dose as ur willing to try. So I would say 20mg/ week would be more ideal to start with, but if u don’t want to start that low with the test, I wouldn’t start with more than 30-40mg/ week. 60mg is way too high to start with, imo.

As far as erections go, I would also try to improve them in all the other ways we know can help. Such as improving the state of ur blood vessels as much as possible/ improving cardiovascular function, in general, as much as possible. Best way to do this is to become as insulin sensitive as possible. And best way to do that, is to eat as close to carnivore as u can. If ur like me, and still want ur diet to include a good amount of carbs, just make sure to get those carbs from foods that aren’t going to decrease ur insulin sensitivity much. So stick mainly to things like organic white rice, fruit, raw honey, and flesh of white potatoes. One of the most important micronutrients for a healthy cardiovascular system is K2, which can only be found in animal foods. It’s moderately high in grass fed dairy products. So if ur gonna eat/ drink dairy, just make sure it’s raw, grass fed, unpasteurized and/ or unhomogenized. Inflammation is one of the main causes of cardiovascular disease, and processed/ pasteurized/ homogenized dairy from animals fed grains, is one of the biggest contributors of inflammation in most people’s diets. Also stay away from most grains. Especially any that contain gluten. Another huge contributor to inflammation in most people’s diets. The absolutely main contributor to all cardiovascular disease, however, is crap/ processed oils, mostly found in processed foods. These oils contribute the most, out of any food, to cardiovascular disease, and will also negatively affect overall insulin sensitivity. And then just make sure u eat as much red meat as u can, each day. There’s so many micronutrients in red meat, that cannot be found in other foods, that will improve cardiovascular function, as well as nitric oxide production, which is another thing that will improve erections.

Then just make sure ur working out with weights at least 2-3 times per week. And also lower stress as much as possible, improve sleep as much as u can, and try to get a healthy amount of sunlight on ur skin each day. U do all these things, and there’s no way ur erections don’t improve.

Thanks Gman really appreciate the detailed response. I am inclined to beleive my ED is purely hormonal. Prior to TRT I was at 300-400 levels and while my libido was low but my erection quality was great. I live a super healthy lifestyle eating clean, doing cardio everyday and lifting weights 4-6 times a week.

I'll start off with 40mg of Test E. What would you recommend the Deca dosage be? As would it be okay to pin every other day switching from Test and Deca I.E Test monday, deca tuesday back to test wed.

 

[Gman86]

Thanks Gman really appreciate the detailed response. I am inclined to beleive my ED is purely hormonal. Prior to TRT I was at 300-400 levels and while my libido was low but my erection quality was great. I live a super healthy lifestyle eating clean, doing cardio everyday and lifting weights 4-6 times a week.

I'll start off with 40mg of Test E. What would you recommend the Deca dosage be? As would it be okay to pin every other day switching from Test and Deca I.E Test monday, deca tuesday back to test wed.

Ya so ur probably right. Sounds like the majority of ur ED issue is most likely hormone related.

Ya injecting each compound E4D should be fine

And 140mg of deca should be a sufficient dose. Just basically use whatever dose of test u would be using on a test base, and use the same amount of deca. The deca dosage isn’t super important. Just need enough to cover all ur androgen needs. That’s gonna be different for everyone. Most important thing is that u pick a deca dosage, and keep it the same the entire time ur dialing in ur test dose

I still think u should start lower with the test. Maybe meet in the middle and start with 30mg/ week lol

 

[Joseywales95]

Ya so ur probably right. Sounds like the majority of ur ED issue is most likely hormone related.

Ya injecting each compound E4D should be fine

And 140mg of deca should be a sufficient dose. Just basically use whatever dose of test u would be using on a test base, and use the same amount of deca. The deca dosage isn’t super important. Just need enough to cover all ur androgen needs. That’s gonna be different for everyone. Most important thing is that u pick a deca dosage, and keep it the same the entire time ur dialing in ur test dose

I still think u should start lower with the test. Maybe meet in the middle and start with 30mg/ week lol

Thanks man.

I'm curious what your current protocol is?

 

[baconlatte]

Long-time lurker, first time poster here.

I started TRT 2 years ago and, other than muscles and fitness, it was nothing but side effects. BP, libido, ED, acne, sleep, anxiety, etc. I've always been a relatively healthy guy and never had any of these issues before TRT. After fiddling with every protocol under the sun, I decided to PCT last October. It's been 7 months since my last pin and, while most side effects resolved themselves within a few weeks, acne and libido issues persisted even though my bloodwork shows I've recovered normally. I have no doubt that Testosterone permanently changed something in me.

After going down the rabbit hole in @Gman86's post history the past few months, I decided to give NPP a try last weekend. I'm keeping it simple for now and only doing 120mg with no Test. I don't want to celebrate just yet because I've already had 5 honeymoons before, but the results have been quite positive so far. Libido/sensitivity/semen volume returned within 72 hours. EQ is diamond hard. I don't feel like I'm hooked up to a car battery like on TRT. Even my acne has cleared up so well, my best friend said it's the clearest she's seen my back in 15 years.

I have Test and hCG on hand just in case. I suspect I'll be using the hCG before I try any Test. Again, it's way too early to declare victory, but this is the feeling that I expected TRT to deliver. Just want to say thanks to @Gman86 and the rest of the folks on here. Figured it was worth contributing 1 more data point.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm keeping it simple for now and only doing 120mg with no Test.

Are you planning to add some test or something else to produce some E2? On that low dose of NPP alone, I doubt you'll have enough E2 to remain healthy otherwise.

 

[baconlatte]

Are you planning to add some test or something else to produce some E2? On that low dose of NPP alone, I doubt you'll have enough E2 to remain healthy otherwise.

I want to try NPP + hCG before adding Test. Right now I'm playing it safe, hence the low dose of NPP. All my TRT misadventures were on a 70-100mg dose. I'm afraid even 40 or 50mg of Test may bring those misadventures back.

 

[Gman86]

Long-time lurker, first time poster here.

I started TRT 2 years ago and, other than muscles and fitness, it was nothing but side effects. BP, libido, ED, acne, sleep, anxiety, etc. I've always been a relatively healthy guy and never had any of these issues before TRT. After fiddling with every protocol under the sun, I decided to PCT last October. It's been 7 months since my last pin and, while most side effects resolved themselves within a few weeks, acne and libido issues persisted even though my bloodwork shows I've recovered normally. I have no doubt that Testosterone permanently changed something in me.

After going down the rabbit hole in @Gman86's post history the past few months, I decided to give NPP a try last weekend. I'm keeping it simple for now and only doing 120mg with no Test. I don't want to celebrate just yet because I've already had 5 honeymoons before, but the results have been quite positive so far. Libido/sensitivity/semen volume returned within 72 hours. EQ is diamond hard. I don't feel like I'm hooked up to a car battery like on TRT. Even my acne has cleared up so well, my best friend said it's the clearest she's seen my back in 15 years.

I have Test and hCG on hand just in case. I suspect I'll be using the hCG before I try any Test. Again, it's way too early to declare victory, but this is the feeling that I expected TRT to deliver. Just want to say thanks to @Gman86 and the rest of the folks on here. Figured it was worth contributing 1 more data point.

It’s obv very early, but hope/ optimism is everything in this HRT game, and in life in general really. So I’m beyond excited to hear that things appear to be going in the right direction for u, after struggling with HRT, and these lingering issue for the past few years. How ur feeling/ what ur experiencing, on a nandrolone base/ on a nandrolone only protocol, is nothing new. Have seen/ heard it reported many many times over the years. Guy never felt great on a test base, switched to nandrolone solo or a nandrolone base, and guy basically feels how they thought they would feel on TRT, without any of the sides that sometimes come with TRT, even when feeling great. Such as acne and/ or hair loss

There’s definitely something to a nandrolone base and erection quality. I specifically remember when I first tried a nandrolone base, erections were literal diamonds! And on demand. Definitely the best they’ve ever been on HRT, and possibly the best they’ve ever been in my life. Hard to say tho, since we all know how those puberty/ teenage erections were. It must have something to do with androgens substantially increasing, while estrogens remain low. I mean, androgens substantially increasing, while estrogens stay low, is most likely the main reason why a nandrolone base/ a nandrolone solo protocol works so well, for so many men. Also, I specifically remember my penis and testicles hanging better when I first tried a nandrolone base. I assume that also was due to androgens being high, while estrogens stayed low. Could also have something to do with androgens being high, while dht remained low. All speculation, obv, but there was definitely interesting positive things going on, that made me really think about what could be causing these positive effects, that I wasn’t really getting on a test base. Erections have always been pretty good, on TRT, but I remember them being substantially better on the nandrolone base. But on a test base, my testicles and penis both hang high and tight. So them both hanging nice and relaxed was a very nice, and welcomed, change. Just wish I knew the exact mechanisms that caused everything to hang better.

But ya, I’m with Funk, and foresee 120mg of NPP per week most likely not being enough to feel good indefinitely. But u honestly never know. Everyone is so different. Definitely don’t adjust anything until u have a need to. If u continue feeling good, definitely don’t change a thing. But I think that’s a good idea to add HCG in, if u do feel like u need an estrogen boost. Wouldn’t go over 1000iu’s/ week with it tho. If u get up to 1000iu’s/ week of HCG, and still don’t feel optimal, I would then add in a very small dose of test. 10mg/ week, to be exact. And if u have access to NPP, I assume u have access to test prop. I would definitely use test prop, if I were u, if u end up adding in a small dose of test.

But I’m extremely curious to see how things end up going for u. Definitely continue to update us with ur progress if u can. Would love to follow ur journey

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

It’s obv very early, but hope/ optimism is everything in this HRT game, and in life in general really. So I’m beyond excited to hear that things appear to be going in the right direction for u, after struggling with HRT, and these lingering issue for the past few years. How ur feeling/ what ur experiencing, on a nandrolone base/ on a nandrolone only protocol, is nothing new. Have seen/ heard it reported many many times over the years. Guy never felt great on a test base, switched to nandrolone solo or a nandrolone base, and guy basically feels how they thought they would feel on TRT, without any of the sides that sometimes come with TRT, even when feeling great. Such as acne and/ or hair loss

There’s definitely something to a nandrolone base and erection quality. I specifically remember when I first tried a nandrolone base, erections were literal diamonds! And on demand. Definitely the best they’ve ever been on HRT, and possibly the best they’ve ever been in my life. Hard to say tho, since we all know how those puberty/ teenage erections were. It must have something to do with androgens substantially increasing, while estrogens remain low. I mean, androgens substantially increasing, while estrogens stay low, is most likely the main reason why a nandrolone base/ a nandrolone solo protocol works so well, for so many men. Also, I specifically remember my penis and testicles hanging better when I first tried a nandrolone base. I assume that also was due to androgens being high, while estrogens stayed low. Could also have something to do with androgens being high, while dht remained low. All speculation, obv, but there was definitely interesting positive things going on, that made me really think about what could be causing these positive effects, that I wasn’t really getting on a test base. Erections have always been pretty good, on TRT, but I remember them being substantially better on the nandrolone base. But on a test base, my testicles and penis both hang high and tight. So them both hanging nice and relaxed was a very nice, and welcomed, change. Just wish I knew the exact mechanisms that caused everything to hang better.

But ya, I’m with Funk, and foresee 120mg of NPP per week most likely not being enough to feel good indefinitely. But u honestly never know. Everyone is so different. Definitely don’t adjust anything until u have a need to. If u continue feeling good, definitely don’t change a thing. But I think that’s a good idea to add HCG in, if u do feel like u need an estrogen boost. Wouldn’t go over 1000iu’s/ week with it tho. If u get up to 1000iu’s/ week of HCG, and still don’t feel optimal, I would then add in a very small dose of test. 10mg/ week, to be exact. And if u have access to NPP, I assume u have access to test prop. I would definitely use test prop, if I were u, if u end up adding in a small dose of test.

But I’m extremely curious to see how things end up going for u. Definitely continue to update us with ur progress if u can. Would love to follow ur journey

This sounds like the result of a change in Adrenergic tone, and if N is having and anti-anxiety affect, (or perhaps something like the uro-specific alpha blockers) that would explain a lot of the erection benefit. If you search on "ultimate adrenergic control of erections" you should find a book-length forum thread on this topic, which IMO sadly gets way too little focus. Conversely, if T has a pro-anxiety affect in some people, that would explain a lot of the ED issues that we hear of.

 

[Gman86]

This sounds like the result of a change in Adrenergic tone, and if N is having and anti-anxiety affect, (or perhaps something like the uro-specific alpha blockers) that would explain a lot of the erection benefit. If you search on "ultimate adrenergic control of erections" you should find a book-length forum thread on this topic, which IMO sadly gets way too little focus. Conversely, if T has a pro-anxiety affect in some people, that would explain a lot of the ED issues that we hear of.

Interesting stuff. Never heard of/ considered any of this. Look forward to looking into it all tho!

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Interesting stuff. Never heard of/ considered any of this. Look forward to looking into it all tho!

It's referring to the chemicals which create things you've certainly heard of such as performance anxiety and sympathetic nervous system activation. I think one of the components of Trimix is an alpha-1? blocker which basically IIRC blocks the local action of norepinephrine, which creates the relaxation response you're referring to, so perhaps N is doing something similar in some people.

Off topic but while we're speculating on Nandrolone's MOAs, a highly respected poster on another forum (Type-IIx) recently posted that N promotes increased retention of synovial fluid in the joints. I had not heard of that before but is seems like it could explain part of the joint relief many get.

 

[baconlatte]

But ya, I’m with Funk, and foresee 120mg of NPP per week most likely not being enough to feel good indefinitely. But u honestly never know. Everyone is so different. Definitely don’t adjust anything until u have a need to. If u continue feeling good, definitely don’t change a thing. But I think that’s a good idea to add HCG in, if u do feel like u need an estrogen boost. Wouldn’t go over 1000iu’s/ week with it tho. If u get up to 1000iu’s/ week of HCG, and still don’t feel optimal, I would then add in a very small dose of test. 10mg/ week, to be exact. And if u have access to NPP, I assume u have access to test prop. I would definitely use test prop, if I were u, if u end up adding in a small dose of test.

But I’m extremely curious to see how things end up going for u. Definitely continue to update us with ur progress if u can. Would love to follow ur journey

Maybe I'll do a few more weeks at 120mg and then increase to 150mg and re-evaluate. My body had trouble handling more than 120mg of Test which is why I was hesitant to start with a bigger NPP dose. I'm like a child who touched a hot stove...everyday for a year and a half.

I'm lucky that I get free bloodwork at the office, so I definitely plan on taking advantage of that. I'll keep posting any updates in results/protocol/etc.

Thanks again man!

 

[Gman86]

Maybe I'll do a few more weeks at 120mg and then increase to 150mg and re-evaluate. My body had trouble handling more than 120mg of Test which is why I was hesitant to start with a bigger NPP dose. I'm like a child who touched a hot stove...everyday for a year and a half.

I'm lucky that I get free bloodwork at the office, so I definitely plan on taking advantage of that. I'll keep posting any updates in results/protocol/etc.

Thanks again man!

Anytime brotha. Helping people improve their lives/ happiness is partly what I live for. So really really hoping that u continue feeling the way u are currently, or even better over time! I honestly wouldn’t change ur dose, unless u start feeling/ functioning worse. Would only adjust something if necessary. Wouldn’t prophylactically adjust anything

And that’s amazing that u get free bloodwork! I’ve had my blood work covered by my insurance since I started HRT, 10+ years ago, and I took FULL advantage of that for years! U can never get too much bloodwork done, and never get it done too often, imo. The more the better! Lol. If u can afford it, obv. So definitely take full advantage of the fact that it’s free for u. I was very diligent about checking E2 often, the first time I tried a nandrolone base. I’ll post the labs and protocol changes below. Long story short, for every 20mg of test cyp I added, my E2 went up around 10 points.


4-2-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 6 on syringe EOD (42mg/ week)
HCG - 150iu’s EOD (525iu’s/ week)

Ultrasensitive E2 - 24



5-8-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
NO HCG

Ultrasensitive E2 - 34




5-20-20 (Labcorp)
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
1000iu’s HCG/ week (Empower)

SHBG 36.7 (16.5 - 55.9)

Ultrasensitive E2 - 32



7-15-20
Deca - 29 on syringe EOD (203mg/ week)
Test - 9 on syringe EOD (63mg/ week)
1000iu’s SAFASI HCG/ week. 280iu EOD


Ultrasensitive E2 - 45

 

[Joseywales95]

Started NPP at 200mg and Test at 20mg. Going to update everyone in 3 weeks. Crossing my fingers.

 

[Gman86]

Started NPP at 200mg and Test at 20mg. Going to update everyone in 3 weeks. Crossing my fingers.

When did u switch from ur previous protocol to this?

What protocol were u on prior?

What ester of test u using, cyp?

 

[Mr.63]

Long-time lurker, first time poster here.

I started TRT 2 years ago and, other than muscles and fitness, it was nothing but side effects. BP, libido, ED, acne, sleep, anxiety, etc. I've always been a relatively healthy guy and never had any of these issues before TRT. After fiddling with every protocol under the sun, I decided to PCT last October. It's been 7 months since my last pin and, while most side effects resolved themselves within a few weeks, acne and libido issues persisted even though my bloodwork shows I've recovered normally. I have no doubt that Testosterone permanently changed something in me.

After going down the rabbit hole in @Gman86's post history the past few months, I decided to give NPP a try last weekend. I'm keeping it simple for now and only doing 120mg with no Test. I don't want to celebrate just yet because I've already had 5 honeymoons before, but the results have been quite positive so far. Libido/sensitivity/semen volume returned within 72 hours. EQ is diamond hard. I don't feel like I'm hooked up to a car battery like on TRT. Even my acne has cleared up so well, my best friend said it's the clearest she's seen my back in 15 years.

I have Test and hCG on hand just in case. I suspect I'll be using the hCG before I try any Test. Again, it's way too early to declare victory, but this is the feeling that I expected TRT to deliver. Just want to say thanks to @Gman86 and the rest of the folks on here. Figured it was worth contributing 1 more data point.

Wow this post really gives me hope! I feel the same way that test permanently changed something in my body when it comes to libido and erections.
How many times per week do you pin the npp?