Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[baconlatte]

I forgot to ask but at what frequency do you inject the 30mg of testosterone?

1x a week

NPP M/W/F
Test M
hCG M/Th

I’ll probably try NPP 2x a week in the near future.

 

[Mr.63]

1x a week

NPP M/W/F
Test M
hCG M/Th

I’ll probably try NPP 2x a week in the near future.

Thx man!

 

[baconlatte]

Bloodwork has arrived. NPP 150mg + hCG 1,000iu + Test 30mg

One thing that jumped out at me was my ALT, but that could be because I drank a lot the weekend before my draw. I’m typically not a big drinker at all.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

Man, hearing positive anecdotes like this honestly never gets old. Love them just as much every single time I come across a new one. Not even just in regards to a nandrolone base, but just in general. But I do definitely like hearing about guys finding a protocol that works for them, after suffering for a while, just because it gives hope to other guys still struggling out there, and it reinforces the fact that there’s many different options, when it comes to what can work for us each as individuals, and to never stop experimenting, even if u have to try things that are a bit outside the box

I started from scratch with my nandrolone based protocol recently, and dropped test for a month, and was on just nandrolone by itself. I wanted to start there, and slowly add in test prop, and titrate up my test dose until I found a place where I feel my best, ideally. Not totally there, but I can say I definitely feel better with the test in there, than on nandrolone by itself. Currently up to 40mg of test prop/ week. I also added in a low dose of masteron prop recently, and have noticed that it has helped a bit as well. Currently using 20mg of mast prop/ week. I also use HCG, at 500iu’s/ week.

As far As ur BP goes, do not go on an ACE inhibitor. U absolutely do not need it. Getting BP in range is one of the easiest things to do. And I’m not exaggerating, it’s true. I’ll private message u and explain a bunch of different ways to get it within range

pm on how to do this to.. I added a ARB like telimsartan so that i could have better libido

 

[Belekas]

Bloodwork has arrived. NPP 150mg + hCG 1,000iu + Test 30mg

One thing that jumped out at me was my ALT, but that could be because I drank a lot the weekend before my draw. I’m typically not a big drinker at all.

How do you feel on such low E2 and low DHT considering the 1208 TT? I haven't seen they measured FT either so need that calculated.

 

[baconlatte]

How do you feel on such low E2 and low DHT considering the 1208 TT? I haven't seen they measured FT either so need that calculated.

Thanks, I just realized the missing FT. The nurse where I get my blood drawn is like Mrs. Magoo in scrubs. She forgot to order PSA as well. I’ll get those done next Monday.

Overall I feel great. Sleep, acne, libido, EQ, mood, fitness, etc have all been excellent and pretty consistent day to day. I know it sounds crazy, and it’s only been 8 weeks, but the fact that hCG is working as intended with NPP when it didn’t do anything for me with Test makes me believe that I may have an “allergy” to exogenous Test.

Penis sensitivity is a bit dulled; sex still feels good, but not as euphoric as before AAS. Erections are diamond-strong. My only concerning issue is that BP shot up when I added 30mg Test to the mix. I went from 125/65 to 150/75. I started taking Losartan a week ago but so far it hasn’t done much.

I’ll be tweaking my protocol a few mg here and there just to see the impact. I might add low-dose Mast or increase hCG to see if it improves sensitivity. Even with the issues I mentioned, if I continue feeling this way for the foreseeable future then 2 years of suffering on TRT will have been well worth it.

I still need to book a CT scan of my heart to keep track of LVH.

 

[Belekas]

Thanks, I just realized the missing FT. The nurse where I get my blood drawn is like Mrs. Magoo in scrubs. She forgot to order PSA as well. I’ll get those done next Monday.

Overall I feel great. Sleep, acne, libido, EQ, mood, fitness, etc have all been excellent and also consistent day to day. I’m more and more convinced that I may have had some kind of allergy to exogenous Test.

Penis sensitivity is a bit dulled; sex still feels good, but not as euphoric as before AAS. Erections are diamond-strong. My only concerning issue is that BP shot up when I added Test to the mix. I went from 125/65 to 150/75. I started taking Losartan a week ago but so far it hasn’t done much.

I’ll be tweaking my protocol a few mg here and there just to see the impact. I might add low-dose Mast or increase hCG to see if it improves sensitivity. Even with the issues I mentioned, if I continue feeling this way for the foreseeable future then 2 years of suffering on TRT will have been well worth it.

I still need to book a CT scan of my heart to keep track of LVH.

All sounds good except the BP. This is the number 1 thing to work on IME. My BP is always great, I feel relaxed, cool and calm but on TRT my BP spikes and I start getting a myriad of issues I won't even go on about it here. I have Telmisartan, Nebivolol but decided to not take any. This is the wrong practise IMO. If you are doing everything you can, ticking all damn boxes and had good BP before and now spiking due to whatever reasons, I'd say thats unhealthy and needs to be addressed. I'm talking from my own experience and its just my opinion so N=1. I wonder if hCG is spiking your BP more then the rest of the stack. From all the anecdotal posts I've read over the course of decades it seems that only a selective few are able to tolerate it long-term. Def would try without it if you have an option like that. Your E2 is very low compared to the high TT you run so adding small dose Mast may even cut it down further? I myself love androgens but traditional TRT doesn't work for me and amps me up like a mother fucker lol. It's a long-term game but I had enough over 12 months and just came off cold-turkey ( not the best idea lol).

I know the struggle mate and its all about the pros and cons, but IMO BP is absolutely crucial because its so unhealthy to have it elevated for the brain, heart, kidneys, etc. Then other issues arrise and so on and so forth. So yeah def hang in there and keep us updated on the progress towards optimal health. CT scan is a must. Shame where I'm at that costs 600-1000EUR smh lol...

Regards,
bel

 

[Mr.63]

I was just wondering the same thing, whether the increased blood pressure could be due to the hcg?

 

[baconlatte]

All sounds good except the BP. This is the number 1 thing to work on IME. My BP is always great, I feel relaxed, cool and calm but on TRT my BP spikes and I start getting a myriad of issues I won't even go on about it here. I have Telmisartan, Nebivolol but decided to not take any. This is the wrong practise IMO. If you are doing everything you can, ticking all damn boxes and had good BP before and now spiking due to whatever reasons, I'd say thats unhealthy and needs to be addressed. I'm talking from my own experience and its just my opinion so N=1. I wonder if hCG is spiking your BP more then the rest of the stack. From all the anecdotal posts I've read over the course of decades it seems that only a selective few are able to tolerate it long-term. Def would try without it if you have an option like that. Your E2 is very low compared to the high TT you run so adding small dose Mast may even cut it down further? I myself love androgens but traditional TRT doesn't work for me and amps me up like a mother fucker lol. It's a long-term game but I had enough over 12 months and just came off cold-turkey ( not the best idea lol).

I know the struggle mate and its all about the pros and cons, but IMO BP is absolutely crucial because its so unhealthy to have it elevated for the brain, heart, kidneys, etc. Then other issues arrise and so on and so forth. So yeah def hang in there and keep us updated on the progress towards optimal health. CT scan is a must. Shame where I'm at that costs 600-1000EUR smh lol...

Regards,
bel

I hear you, brother. I know the amped up feeling you’re talking about. TRT was an absolute DISASTER for me. I’m convinced I caused some permanent damage because some shit just never recovered even though my bloodwork was great after PCT. I wish I discovered @Gman86’s posts sooner.

I actually keep a detailed daily log and BP on NPP+hCG was fine for the few weeks where I was only taking those two. It wasn’t until adding Test that it spiked a week later. In terms of Mast and e2, this is why I’m only doing small tweaks. I plan on adding like 30mg, if I get low e2 symptoms it’s easy to come off.

For sure. I’m sure there’s a big % of guys who hop on TRT and have a terrible go at it that isn’t advertised. If my trials and errors can help people, I’m happy to do it.

 

[Belekas]

I hear you, brother. I know the amped up feeling you’re talking about. TRT was an absolute DISASTER for me. I’m convinced I caused some permanent damage because some shit just never recovered even though my bloodwork was great after PCT. I wish I discovered @Gman86’s posts sooner.

I actually keep a detailed daily log and BP on NPP+hCG was fine for the few weeks where I was only taking those two. It wasn’t until adding Test that it spiked a week later. In terms of Mast and e2, this is why I’m only doing small tweaks. I plan on adding like 30mg, if I get low e2 symptoms it’s easy to come off.

For sure. I’m sure there’s a big % of guys who hop on TRT and have a terrible go at it that isn’t advertised. If my trials and errors can help people, I’m happy to do it.

Ah man thats a terrible feeling and there are a lot of guys who get sides from as low as 30mg of T. Plenty of them in the Taeians Clarks Deca only HRT group on the FB. I hope you overcome that damage and that is not permanent but I know the feeling. Since I got off cold-turkey about 8 months ago my original sex-drive and libido and errection quallity took a huge hit. I never was like this before. Always was spot on and now like a fucking switch. Still all works but need more play n shit, and always what it took was just a damn thought hehe So def something fucked up for me as well but I havent done any PCT and perhaps I'm even shutdown now on something as I haven't done any hormonal blood tests to see the outcome. I will try adding lots of fats to see if it improves and about fats you should also increase the fats esp when running Deca base HRT. That has a lot of benefits and is alot discussed in the "Camel Cult" HRT only group I've mentioned. Maybe you know it yourself, no idea

Awesome that you keep a log. I do too for everything I do and thats probably 20 years long by now. Not only health related fwiw. A few weeks TBH means not much when dabbling with hormones and stuff and its tough to know if after those two weaks shit hit the fan and even without Test you would get BP spike or that was all fine and just after adding Test on top fucked it up going forward. The more moving parts the harder to work with and becomes a fucking riddle which in fact raises your BP because you are getting more anxious, etc, trying to figure it out. If you know what I mean.

After getting off TRT my BP still was elevated but declining slowly but not there I wanted it do be. I also have IG account where I follow around 5-6K people. Too fucking much and I was always scrooling and checking something that I should have never checked as I know what I need to know for ages and need no confirmation or whatsoever, if you get the drift. So after I deactivated my IG, few days passed and I felt absolutely cool, calm and collected, like a damn rock lifted my shoulders. Measured my BP, mid-day, usually when I have it elevated and it was beautiful, IIRC 116/76 with pulse preasure being perfect at 40 (systolic-diastolic 116-76=40). So I'm pretty sure that all social medias and the shit that we watch online absolutely impairs out wellbeing or at least it did mine and in an ugly way. Ofcourse that could have been a coincidence with something I have no idea about as maybe I got healthier while off TRT or something along those lines.

Sorry for a long rant but I'm just back from gym, working in the office and had to do it lol

Regards,
bel

p.s. oh and I forgot I also done a 500ml private venesection so maybe that also had something to do to lowering BP. My last VS was in 2019 fwiw.

 

[Gman86]

pm on how to do this to.. I added a ARB like telimsartan so that i could have better libido

Didn’t know that telmisartan could help with libido. What’s the mechanism by which it helps in that department? Has increased ur libido at all since starting it? What dose u taking?

 

[Gman86]

Thanks, I just realized the missing FT. The nurse where I get my blood drawn is like Mrs. Magoo in scrubs. She forgot to order PSA as well. I’ll get those done next Monday.

Overall I feel great. Sleep, acne, libido, EQ, mood, fitness, etc have all been excellent and pretty consistent day to day. I know it sounds crazy, and it’s only been 8 weeks, but the fact that hCG is working as intended with NPP when it didn’t do anything for me with Test makes me believe that I may have an “allergy” to exogenous Test.

Penis sensitivity is a bit dulled; sex still feels good, but not as euphoric as before AAS. Erections are diamond-strong. My only concerning issue is that BP shot up when I added 30mg Test to the mix. I went from 125/65 to 150/75. I started taking Losartan a week ago but so far it hasn’t done much.

I’ll be tweaking my protocol a few mg here and there just to see the impact. I might add low-dose Mast or increase hCG to see if it improves sensitivity. Even with the issues I mentioned, if I continue feeling this way for the foreseeable future then 2 years of suffering on TRT will have been well worth it.

I still need to book a CT scan of my heart to keep track of LVH.

Do u have a history of LVH, or u just want to make sure u don’t acquire it now that ur on a nandrolone base?

 

[baconlatte]

Do u have a history of LVH, or u just want to make sure u don’t acquire it now that ur on a nandrolone base?

Just want to make sure I don’t get it.

 

[Gman86]

I hear you, brother. I know the amped up feeling you’re talking about. TRT was an absolute DISASTER for me. I’m convinced I caused some permanent damage because some shit just never recovered even though my bloodwork was great after PCT. I wish I discovered @Gman86’s posts sooner.

I actually keep a detailed daily log and BP on NPP+hCG was fine for the few weeks where I was only taking those two. It wasn’t until adding Test that it spiked a week later. In terms of Mast and e2, this is why I’m only doing small tweaks. I plan on adding like 30mg, if I get low e2 symptoms it’s easy to come off.

For sure. I’m sure there’s a big % of guys who hop on TRT and have a terrible go at it that isn’t advertised. If my trials and errors can help people, I’m happy to do it.

So happy to see that my research throughout the years, and trial and error on myself throughout the years, can make such a difference for others. And I’m sure u posting ur experience rn is going to help plenty of others, just like I was able to help u. So thanks for sharing ur experience in such detail

And keep doing as many of the things I recommended, as far as lowering BP goes. I’m telling u, u keep doing as many of the things as possible, and ur BP will come way down, I literally guarantee it. Thing is, u can’t just pick and choose which things u want to implement. They’re all equally as important/ necessary

 

[Gman86]

Just want to make sure I don’t get it.

Get ur BP down, and keep it within a healthy range, and it’s most likely something u don’t need to be concerned with. I love that ur going to be staying on top of this diagnostically tho.

 

[Belekas]

Get ur BP down, and keep it within a healthy range, and it’s most likely something u don’t need to be concerned with. I love that ur going to be staying on top of this diagnostically tho.

Yo brother.

Remember, he might be one of the unlucky ones that no matter what he does he will never get that BP in good range and even if it does it will require so much from him that he will get exhausted from all that and will just hang the gloves. Some just can't handle any AAS even with proper diets, hydration, cardio and sleep regimes. And you know I don't fuck around. This is not to discourage him or anything just to spark some reallity into it.

BUUUT. There also might be a different component into this like overstimulation from something else thats lost in the context and whats being done on the regular. And by getting rid of it, whatever that might be, will help fixing the issue. For example now that I'm off TRT I don't take any vitamins, minerals, antioxidants or whatever else I used to take and I'm feeling solid with solid BP that stays where it needs to be even going into mid-day and evening when it used to spike for me.

Nothing is for sure, except one thing- the more variables, the more drugs, the more supps, the more moving parts- the worse outcome you are most likely to get and it will be pretty much impossible to figure out what works and what not as each day is different in our lifes and we ain't robots. The more thinking about it, the more reading, the more trying to figure it out will just put extra pressure and increase the symptoms IME.

Anyway, whatever happens and whatever the outcome is- life doesn't end there, but one has to be very smart and strategic about all this going forward and just be reasonable about it. I still have tons of Sustanon, some Deca, some Prop, tons of supplements and drugs that I don't take. The urge is always there but I can't be bothered now. Ofc I would want my EQ and sex drive be higher so what, sacrifice overall health for this doesn't make any sense to me, but then again, we all have different goals and visions. Probably as Kafka said- find what makes you happy and let it kill you: )

 

[Gman86]

Yo brother.

Remember, he might be one of the unlucky ones that no matter what he does he will never get that BP in good range and even if it does it will require so much from him that he will get exhausted from all that and will just hang the gloves. Some just can't handle any AAS even with proper diets, hydration, cardio and sleep regimes. And you know I don't fuck around. This is not to discourage him or anything just to spark some reallity into it.

BUUUT. There also might be a different component into this like overstimulation from something else thats lost in the context and whats being done on the regular. And by getting rid of it, whatever that might be, will help fixing the issue. For example now that I'm off TRT I don't take any vitamins, minerals, antioxidants or whatever else I used to take and I'm feeling solid with solid BP that stays where it needs to be even going into mid-day and evening when it used to spike for me.

Nothing is for sure, except one thing- the more variables, the more drugs, the more supps, the more moving parts- the worse outcome you are most likely to get and it will be pretty much impossible to figure out what works and what not as each day is different in our lifes and we ain't robots. The more thinking about it, the more reading, the more trying to figure it out will just put extra pressure and increase the symptoms IME.

Anyway, whatever happens and whatever the outcome is- life doesn't end there, but one has to be very smart and strategic about all this going forward and just be reasonable about it. I still have tons of Sustanon, some Deca, some Prop, tons of supplements and drugs that I don't take. The urge is always there but I can't be bothered now. Ofc I would want my EQ and sex drive be higher so what, sacrifice overall health for this doesn't make any sense to me, but then again, we all have different goals and visions. Probably as Kafka said- find what makes you happy and let it kill you: )

Ur definitely right, there’s always outliers in this world. The thing is, I like to think of things as critically, logically, and pragmatically as possible. Like increased blood pressure has to have a cause. Like what about the addition of the 30mg of test could have caused his blood pressure to increase? Is it his arterial walls being stiffer? I doubt that is the cause. Could it be due to an increase in RBC’s, and therefore making his blood more viscous, and his heart having to pump it a bit harder through his blood vessels to have proper circulation? Did the test increase blood volume, via some water retention mechanism, thus increasing the amount of pressure during each heart beat, again due to the increase in blood volume? Like what exactly could be going on here, is what I want to know. Once u know the exact mechanism that’s causing the issue, it obv becomes a lot clearer, in regards to how to resolve the issue.

I do still believe that 99.99% of people that implement my strategies, to lower BP, will see success, if they do pretty much all the things I recommend. Anyone that doesn’t, I put in the same category as people that say “I eat healthy” or “my labs look good”. Aka, anyone that didn’t see improvements in BP, after implementing my strategies, simply didn’t implement them correctly/ consistently, and/ or didn’t implement all of them. But like u said, implementing all of them is obv easier said than done, and might not be worth it for some people, even if they do ultimately see their BP fall into a healthy range. So I definitely get what ur saying, and u do have a valid point

 

[Belekas]

Ur definitely right, there’s always outliers in this world. The thing is, I like to think of things as critically, logically, and pragmatically as possible. Like increased blood pressure has to have a cause. Like what about the addition of the 30mg of test could have caused his blood pressure to increase? Is it his arterial walls being stiffer? I doubt that is the cause. Could it be due to an increase in RBC’s, and therefore making his blood more viscous, and his heart having to pump it a bit harder through his blood vessels to have proper circulation? Did the test increase blood volume, via some water retention mechanism, thus increasing the amount of pressure during each heart beat, again due to the increase in blood volume? Like what exactly could be going on here, is what I want to know. Once u know the exact mechanism that’s causing the issue, it obv becomes a lot clearer, in regards to how to resolve the issue.

I do still believe that 99.99% of people that implement my strategies, to lower BP, will see success, if they do pretty much all the things I recommend. Anyone that doesn’t, I put in the same category as people that say “I eat healthy” or “my labs look good”. Aka, anyone that didn’t see improvements in BP, after implementing my strategies, simply didn’t implement them correctly/ consistently, and/ or didn’t implement all of them. But like u said, implementing all of them is obv easier said than done, and might not be worth it for some people, even if they do ultimately see their BP fall into a healthy range. So I definitely get what ur saying, and u do have a valid point

You have a fair point as well. But lets not forget that even doing all the supplement regime and cardio regime there are other things that influence like stress. And some of us can't mitigate current stress for various different reasons and then no matter what you do things won't get better doing the generic protocols and strategies implemented. We can argue both points into the ground but the fact that stress is a major key player will stay. If supplements, cardio regimes and all don't work then def meditation is the way to go or at least to give it a fair try. It's not about this, or maybe it is? The best CFS and Adrenal fatigue docs in the USA swear that meditation is 50% or even more of success plus 1 main supplement and a few other simple ones. So like I said, if implementing your strategies, shit don't work, it's time to be a bit more open minded and do what you don't want to do as meditating 3x/day sounds funny af, but trust me it works wonders and everyone who is into it knows the deal. Simple YT beach sounds 20-30mins 3x day with eyes closed, earbuds on and in comfy position. It goes way beyond what an average person would imagine

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Generally, I agree with Gman that there is some mechanism for the BP increase, and you can test different solutions that are associated with those different causes. There's no way you could fail to control BP on TRT if you are determined to, the only question is what it will take in terms of interventions. If protocol adjustments don't work, and if the lifestyle and supplement interventions don't work, some combination of drugs will. If it's water retention, diuretic. If its adrenergic vasoconstriction, nebivolol. If its the RAS system, ARBs / ACEs.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Belekas]

Generally, I agree with Gman that there is some mechanism for the BP increase, and you can test different solutions that are associated with those different causes. There's no way you could fail to control BP on TRT if you are determined to, the only question is what it will take in terms of interventions. If protocol adjustments don't work, and if the lifestyle and supplement interventions don't work, some combination of drugs will. If it's water retention, diuretic. If its adrenergic vasoconstriction, nebivolol. If its the RAS system, ARBs / ACEs.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Agreed but not everyone can change their life situation and not everyone should even be touching TRT let alone take drugs to counter its side effects when in reallity a high % of people never needed it in first place. I will rest my case here and will just wish good luck to those who struggle.