My Ongoing TRT Mystery

[GreenMachineX]

This reminds me of my first foray into all of this and the STTM forums. They would tell you to take more desiccated and tell people all this stuff to keep cranking up the thyroid hormone. Then they’d say if there were side effects that they had t3 “pooling” and the answer was MORE T3. Then once people were sweating, shaking, and pooping themselves, they’d say they must have done something wrong.

I thought they said the answer to t3 pooling was more hydrocortisone...?

 

[Charliebizz]

I tried thyroid treatment a few years ago, after my second dosage, I felt like a drank way too much coffee. I was jittery and shaky.

My Free T3 was 3.6 prior to treatment, middle of the road levels. That’s why I chuckle when someone comes in here wanting to optimize thyroid levels with TSH <2.5.

Optimal range is very individual.

I have good natural thyroid numbers but all signs point to hypothyroid. Especially my low body temps and wicked cold intolerance. I’ve trialed thyroid meds in the past but never gave it long enough that said taking the medication didn’t send me hyperthyroid. So I would assume my levels could use a bump. Otherwise I would go hyper no ?

 

[Systemlord]

I have good natural thyroid numbers but all signs point to hypothyroid.

Lots of medical conditions can cause cold intolerance and low body temps. Even dehydration or poor blood flow can cause extreme coldness throughout my body.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I have good natural thyroid numbers but all signs point to hypothyroid. Especially my low body temps and wicked cold intolerance. I’ve trialed thyroid meds in the past but never gave it long enough that said taking the medication didn’t send me hyperthyroid. So I would assume my levels could use a bump. Otherwise I would go hyper no ?

I've wondered this too. Can i be hyperthyroid with normal numbers?

 

[Charliebizz]

Lots of medical conditions can cause cold intolerance and low body temps. Even dehydration or poor blood flow can cause extreme coldness throughout my body.

I know. But I haven’t been able to nail it down. All this started over 15 years ago now. My point is if my thyroid was good wouldn’t taking armour or t4 send me hyper ? It hasn’t. I was up to 1.5 grain a day of armour and no hyper symptoms at all.

also one thing I noticed my cortisol always runs on the lower end of normal but t4 mono actually raised my cortisol. Unfortunately I got in my head about being on thyroid and jumped off. I was warmer and temps did go up a bit. And my Apple Watch tracks temps and they jive with the oral thermometer. So I think I should have stayed on it. I just started t4 again today (I seem to convert fine) so I’ll keep you guys posted

 

[zancek0]

Since I’m seeing my Dr in a week, I have the following questions on what options would be viable for me.

What I know:
1. Clomid did not result in better T, LH and FH did increase, test did not.
2. Cream on body does not absorb, cream on scrotum absorbs too much and DHT goes far to high, also feel too amped up on it.
3. HCG causes anxiety and other complications
4. E2 pre trt is low, like 10 or 11 on sensitive test
5. Shots sometimes work

Untested options:
1. Xyosted
2. Nasal Gel

Would either of the two above be worth a try vs the 30-40mg Cyp IM 2x a week?

There's been a hypothesis proposed by Spyros (link) which emphasises the importance of estrogen and possibly dysfunctional ER in syndromes like PFS and PSSD.
You might benefit from trying exogenous e2 (even in pill form). Maybe it'll relieve some of your symptoms. Just a thought, seeing as you are willing to experiment.
I've replied to this specific comment because you mention that your E2 levels pre-trt are low.

 

[osirisrisen]

Further update, my other labs came in. This is 2 months off of Enclomiphene and roughly 4 months off TRT.

Total T 293ng/dl (250-1100)
Free T 40.1pg/ml (35-155)

No e2, but historically it would be between 12-18 with T at this level, so slightly on the low end.

Obviously for a 40 year old male, this explains a lot. Combined with the high Ft3, these issues also match my symptoms and complaints.

Getting back on T and then possibly adding hcg, also hoping to see an endo asap to asses hyperthyroid. Once these are dealt with and if issues persist, then exploring adding e2 as noted above by @zancek0

 

[osirisrisen]

Finally saw the Endo, she told me nothing is wrong and then walked out of the room. Basically a 5min appointment that was meaningless. She told me the ft3 test is never reliable and that is why they only use TSH and T4…fair enough.

I got back on Test today. 75mg injection 1x week is the goal. Injected today and now it’s 11:30 and I can’t sleep, so I’m up on the forums. This tends to happen each time I use Test, sleep starts off bad.

 

[Systemlord]

I got back on Test today. 75mg injection 1x week is the goal.

I had a 453 ng/dL 6 days after my 75 mg injection.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Finally saw the Endo, she told me nothing is wrong and then walked out of the room. Basically a 5min appointment that was meaningless. She told me the ft3 test is never reliable and that is why they only use TSH and T4…fair enough.

I got back on Test today. 75mg injection 1x week is the goal. Injected today and now it’s 11:30 and I can’t sleep, so I’m up on the forums. This tends to happen each time I use Test, sleep starts off bad.

If you really think the ft3 is an issue, you could try a few weeks of daily lemon balm...it blocks thyroid activity. Also, have you started taking vitamin d3 yet? Your levels are really low...

 

[Keepfit1]

Finally saw the Endo, she told me nothing is wrong and then walked out of the room. Basically a 5min appointment that was meaningless. She told me the ft3 test is never reliable and that is why they only use TSH and T4…fair enough.

I got back on Test today. 75mg injection 1x week is the goal. Injected today and now it’s 11:30 and I can’t sleep, so I’m up on the forums. This tends to happen each time I use Test, sleep starts off bad.

I’ve never heard that Ft3 is less accurate than TSH, I think this is likely BS, TSH is only rough guide and Ft3 is the player followed by Ft4, that’s my view having been on throid meds and seen many experts over 15+ years

 

[osirisrisen]

If you really think the ft3 is an issue, you could try a few weeks of daily lemon balm...it blocks thyroid activity. Also, have you started taking vitamin d3 yet? Your levels are really low...

I have lemon balm tincture for anxiety, have never tried it yet because well...of my anxiety lol. Stupid I know. How do you feel it works for you?

Also have not supplemented vit d yet. I have some 2000iu with k added.

 

[osirisrisen]

I’ve never heard that Ft3 is less accurate than TSH, I think this is likely BS, TSH is only rough guide and Ft3 is the player followed by Ft4, that’s my view having been on throid meds and seen many experts over 15+ years

Totally b.s. for sure, but I also don't feel like thyroid is the driving issue and it was probably a one time thing.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I have lemon balm tincture for anxiety, have never tried it yet because well...of my anxiety lol. Stupid I know. How do you feel it works for you?

Also have not supplemented vit d yet. I have some 2000iu with k added.

Lol I know exactly the feeling of anxiety about trying things for anxiety, but it works pretty well. But I was also just suggesting it to block the thyroid receptors to see if that helps. I'm not a doctor, but saying the ft3 test is unreliable...? Lol

Otherwise, some of your symptoms could be due to low vitamin D levels...

 

[osirisrisen]

Day 6 since first Test Cyp injection. Day 1, couldn’t sleep and had anxiety. This week at work I got into multiple arguments with people (which is something that I do not do ever). Shortness of breath has returned.

Stupidly took pregnenelone yesterday to try to help. Have had heart palps, more temper, and crying spells for the last two days. Years ago on TRT and trying things I could tolerate most anything….now I feel like I’ve fallen apart and am broken. I feel stuck and that nothing will work for me. My fiancé is supportive, but I feel bad and like I’m ruining our upcoming wedding. I just want to get back to feeling good.

Scared to take vit d due to it causing kidney stones, scared to take more T (injection at least) since it makes me now feel awful. Scared to take the 12mg of Zoloft I was prescribed just for who knows what reason. Scared to take Taurine for fear of rebound anxiety, same for Lemon Balm. Waiting to take my antibiotics for Lyme’s till after the wedding. I am stuck and lost and sorry for ranting, I just don’t have an answer anymore. A few years ago I was working out almost daily, looked great, felt pretty good and now I’m not even close to being that person. I’ve had weekly therapy for 2.5 years now and have worked my ass off in it and that has not helped either. I’m at a loss.

 

[Charliebizz]

Day 6 since first Test Cyp injection. Day 1, couldn’t sleep and had anxiety. This week at work I got into multiple arguments with people (which is something that I do not do ever). Shortness of breath has returned.

Stupidly took pregnenelone yesterday to try to help. Have had heart palps, more temper, and crying spells for the last two days. Years ago on TRT and trying things I could tolerate most anything….now I feel like I’ve fallen apart and am broken. I feel stuck and that nothing will work for me. My fiancé is supportive, but I feel bad and like I’m ruining our upcoming wedding. I just want to get back to feeling good.

Scared to take vit d due to it causing kidney stones, scared to take more T (injection at least) since it makes me now feel awful. Scared to take the 12mg of Zoloft I was prescribed just for who knows what reason. Scared to take Taurine for fear of rebound anxiety, same for Lemon Balm. Waiting to take my antibiotics for Lyme’s till after the wedding. I am stuck and lost and sorry for ranting, I just don’t have an answer anymore. A few years ago I was working out almost daily, looked great, felt pretty good and now I’m not even close to being that person. I’ve had weekly therapy for 2.5 years now and have worked my ass off in it and that has not helped either. I’m at a loss.

What were you doing when you felt good ? Trt and hormone wise ?

 

[osirisrisen]

What were you doing when you felt good ? Trt and hormone wise ?

Years ago almost anything seemed to Work fine. I was caught up back then in chasing perfection. Now, everything seems to make me an emotional wreck.

Shots of CYP used to work ok. Scrotal cream was great for a few months then too ramped up. Recently shots with cream was also too much, but started fine. Hell, one of the best periods I had was on Pharma Gel (Fortesta) and some Zoloft. 4 pumps of that had me at 1000 and top of Free T range. Back then this shortness of breath and anxiety wasn’t a thing, the test had initially fixed most of that.

 

[Charliebizz]

Years ago almost anything seemed to Work fine. I was caught up back then in chasing perfection. Now, everything seems to make me an emotional wreck.

Shots of CYP used to work ok. Scrotal cream was great for a few months then too ramped up. Recently shots with cream was also too much, but started fine. Hell, one of the best periods I had was on Pharma Gel (Fortesta) and some Zoloft. 4 pumps of that had me at 1000 and top of Free T range. Back then this shortness of breath and anxiety wasn’t a thing, the test had initially fixed most of that.

Sorry to hear that man. I wish I had some advice. I know I went through a bad period where I was just trying too much and changing everything and time I had any little side. I’ve been doing much better on cream only and 20mg of preg daily. But my preg was bottomed out In blood tests. Some say it only works if you have a true deficiency

 

[GreenMachineX]

Day 6 since first Test Cyp injection. Day 1, couldn’t sleep and had anxiety. This week at work I got into multiple arguments with people (which is something that I do not do ever). Shortness of breath has returned.

Stupidly took pregnenelone yesterday to try to help. Have had heart palps, more temper, and crying spells for the last two days. Years ago on TRT and trying things I could tolerate most anything….now I feel like I’ve fallen apart and am broken. I feel stuck and that nothing will work for me. My fiancé is supportive, but I feel bad and like I’m ruining our upcoming wedding. I just want to get back to feeling good.

Scared to take vit d due to it causing kidney stones, scared to take more T (injection at least) since it makes me now feel awful. Scared to take the 12mg of Zoloft I was prescribed just for who knows what reason. Scared to take Taurine for fear of rebound anxiety, same for Lemon Balm. Waiting to take my antibiotics for Lyme’s till after the wedding. I am stuck and lost and sorry for ranting, I just don’t have an answer anymore. A few years ago I was working out almost daily, looked great, felt pretty good and now I’m not even close to being that person. I’ve had weekly therapy for 2.5 years now and have worked my ass off in it and that has not helped either. I’m at a loss.

I know exactly how you feel being stuck and scared to trying anything new...but it was worth it. I'm still coming out of it, but so much better then I was...I just had to take that next step out of faith (for me, trust that God was going to take care of the rest).

Otherwise...
Rotating lemon balm and theanine might be good options also to treat anxiety when it happens until you figure out the true cause. Taurine never worked for me.

And do you have kidney stones, or have had them in the past? I've not heard of this, and can't imagine vit D levels within range would cause this.

And what dose of test?

 

[osirisrisen]

Sorry to hear that man. I wish I had some advice. I know I went through a bad period where I was just trying too much and changing everything and time I had any little side. I’ve been doing much better on cream only and 20mg of preg daily. But my preg was bottomed out In blood tests. Some say it only works if you have a true deficiency

Thanks man. I used to take preg and feel great on it. My recent labs show it was around 63, so within range. I only took 5mg yesterday and today and it seems to have wrecked me.