OK, this might need some more context. Because of a varied lifestyle, there are some days when I'm unable to apply a pm dose so I do both doses am. I can't tell the difference the additional two clicks on my forearms makes. I'm confident the overdosing and resulting jitters were coming from higher absorption through my scrotal tissue either am or pm. I think I was looking subconsciously for the worst case on how high my DHT would go. I don't have the means to do hourly tests of my DHT through the day, but i understand the leaders of this forum are intent on looking into this topic and giving members some much needed information. The encouraging part of the story is that scrotal application might be a way to find my dialed in zone (eg 1 click scrotal pm or EOD) that avoids a needle and mainlining who knows what awful carrier + T directly into my bloodstream. We just need to be aware of this additional androgen compound, and more research is needed on what adverse effects out of range levels might cause especially to heart function.
OK, this might need some more context. Because of a varied lifestyle, there are some days when I'm unable to apply a pm dose so I do both doses am. I can't tell the difference the additional two clicks on my forearms makes. I'm confident the overdosing and resulting jitters were coming from higher absorption through my scrotal tissue either am or pm. I think I was looking subconsciously for the worst case on how high my DHT would go. I don't have the means to do hourly tests of my DHT through the day, but i understand the leaders of this forum are intent on looking into this topic and giving members some much needed information. The encouraging part of the story is that scrotal application might be a way to find my dialed in zone (eg 1 click scrotal pm or EOD) that avoids a needle and mainlining who knows what awful carrier + T directly into my bloodstream. We just need to be aware of this additional androgen compound, and more research is needed on what adverse effects out of range levels might cause especially to heart function.
As opposed to those dubious cream chemicals, which may be absorbed through the scrotal skin. Injectables are usually just a testosterone ester, oil and benzyl alcohol.
Vince Carter
Banned
...you've no idea what youre talking about here.
Vince Carter
Banned
I got an ingredient list from a compounder for an insurance claim and there was at least 10+ ingredients in their Cyp, nothing of any substance, like drugs or amino's but def more than ester/oil/alc.
Look at the granddaddy, Depo-Testosterone. The only ingredient I didn't mention is benzyl benzoate. Ditto for a compounded product from Empower. A generic product I've used has only T cypionate, benzyl benzoate, and cottonseed oil.
bbex2014
Active Member
I know dr Keith Nichols isn’t taken very seriously here at EM, but he talks of how better the creams are verses injections in regards to lipids. I’ve also heard dr Jim Meehan say cottonseed oil is terrible and to try to get test with grapeseed if possible
I just went through YouTube and watched as many videos about creams as I could find. One of the videos reported that for whatever reason, injections seem to have a tendency to lower HDL, and creams have a tendency to increase HDL. Not sure if that’s true or not. Would love to see a study done on it.
madman
Super Moderator
Nonsense!
Cypionate Carrier Oil Allergy?
Tell me how much of the oily solution is a person on trt injecting weekly?
Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are the two most commonly prescribed esters.
200 mg/ml or 100 mg/ml.....and 200 mg/ml strength is used far more often.
On average most men on trt are injecting 100-150 mg/week and some up to 200 mg/week (not needed by most).
Whether injecting once weekly, twice weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, EOD or daily.
Using the more common 200 mg/ml strength most are injecting .50--->.75 ml weekly or at most 1 ml weekly of the oily solution.
Miniscule fu**ing amounts!
DEPO-Testosterone Injection is available in two strengths, 100 mg/mL and 200 mg/mL testosterone cypionate.
Each mL of the 100 mg/mL solution contains:
Testosterone cypionate 100 mg
Benzyl benzoate 0.1 mL
Cottonseed oil 736 mg
Benzyl alcohol (as preservative) 9.45 mg
Each mL of the 200 mg/mL solution contains:
Testosterone cypionate 200 mg
Benzyl benzoate 0.2 mL
Cottonseed oil 560 mg
Benzyl alcohol (as preservative) 9.45 mg
DELATESTRYL is a sterile, oily testosterone enanthate solution for intramuscular use. It is available in a potency of 200 mg per mL formulated in sesame oil with 0.5% chlorobutanol as a preservative. It is available in glass vials containing 5 mL, sealed with latex free stoppers.
Clinical safety and efficacy of DELATESTRYL (testosterone enanthate injection) is supported by clinical use with Canadian patients since 1956 without incidence.
* I would be far more concerned with the excess amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids one consumes through dietary sources as in tablespoons (15 ml +) worth.
Or better yet foods laden with trans fatty acids!
Joe Sixpack
Active Member
Amen to that
Update: T-Cream at 4 clicks, 100 mg / day on forearms only seems to work for me.
After the initial episode results:
9/9/19 (Two clicks forearms AM, 2 clicks scrotum PM)
Testosterone, Free + Total, LC/MS >1500 (Ref. 264.0-916.0 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone >50 (Ref. 6.6-18.1 pg/mL)
Estradiol Sensitive 49.8 (Ref. 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Dyhydrotestosterone 579 (Ref. 30-85 ng/100ml)
I returned to 4 clicks on my forearms only, and now my numbers are more in line:
11/1/19 (Two clicks forearms AM, 2 clicks scrotum PM)
Testosterone, Free + Total, LC/MS 668 (Ref. 264.0-916.0 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone 18.1 (Ref. 6.6-18.1 pg/mL)
Estradiol Sensitive 16.3 (Ref. 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Dyhydrotestosterone 181 (Ref. 30-85 ng/100ml)
My DHT is still on the high side, but the jitters, over-the-top libido, and blood pressure spikes are gone. Male Sexual Functioning (ED) is still borderline, but improving. Should I try to raise E2 a bit higher in the "sweet spot" of 20-30 by applying a click to the scrotal area EOD? I don't think so, with DHT that high, and knowing what a higher number might do. It seems like my body type favors conversion of T to DHT (reductase/androgenic) vs E2 (aromatase/Estrogen).
I asked my Doctor about my high Thyroid Antibody numbers (Hashimotos?). I would paraphrase his response as follows:
"The numbers say you have something attacking your thyroid and it's producing antibodies. You can use the label Hashimotos disease or thyroiditis, but labels can be misleading and overused in medicine today. I've seen others with much higher numbers."
He further went on to postulate that many such conditions allowing foreign materials to come in contact with your critical systems result from poor gut health ("leaky gut"). He fully embraces Dr Steven R Gundry's Plant Paradox approach to maintaining a healthy digestion biome (including avoiding certain grains, especially wheat, minimizing dairy, and in some cases, cooking foods with a pressure cooker to destroy the lechtin compounds in so many foods that cause inflammation). Bone broth can be helpful. There are industries popping up constantly that claim their products can address this issue ( Welcome to RESTORE™ | RESTORE ; just an example, not an endorsement).
I've been following the Plant Paradox food guidelines since I started my TRT program with this doctor, and based on how well I feel, I'm gradually growing to embrace it. I still need to keep vigilant about my thyroid functioning.
After the initial episode results:
9/9/19 (Two clicks forearms AM, 2 clicks scrotum PM)
Testosterone, Free + Total, LC/MS >1500 (Ref. 264.0-916.0 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone >50 (Ref. 6.6-18.1 pg/mL)
Estradiol Sensitive 49.8 (Ref. 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Dyhydrotestosterone 579 (Ref. 30-85 ng/100ml)
I returned to 4 clicks on my forearms only, and now my numbers are more in line:
11/1/19 (Two clicks forearms AM, 2 clicks scrotum PM)
Testosterone, Free + Total, LC/MS 668 (Ref. 264.0-916.0 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone 18.1 (Ref. 6.6-18.1 pg/mL)
Estradiol Sensitive 16.3 (Ref. 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Dyhydrotestosterone 181 (Ref. 30-85 ng/100ml)
My DHT is still on the high side, but the jitters, over-the-top libido, and blood pressure spikes are gone. Male Sexual Functioning (ED) is still borderline, but improving. Should I try to raise E2 a bit higher in the "sweet spot" of 20-30 by applying a click to the scrotal area EOD? I don't think so, with DHT that high, and knowing what a higher number might do. It seems like my body type favors conversion of T to DHT (reductase/androgenic) vs E2 (aromatase/Estrogen).
I asked my Doctor about my high Thyroid Antibody numbers (Hashimotos?). I would paraphrase his response as follows:
"The numbers say you have something attacking your thyroid and it's producing antibodies. You can use the label Hashimotos disease or thyroiditis, but labels can be misleading and overused in medicine today. I've seen others with much higher numbers."
He further went on to postulate that many such conditions allowing foreign materials to come in contact with your critical systems result from poor gut health ("leaky gut"). He fully embraces Dr Steven R Gundry's Plant Paradox approach to maintaining a healthy digestion biome (including avoiding certain grains, especially wheat, minimizing dairy, and in some cases, cooking foods with a pressure cooker to destroy the lechtin compounds in so many foods that cause inflammation). Bone broth can be helpful. There are industries popping up constantly that claim their products can address this issue ( Welcome to RESTORE™ | RESTORE ; just an example, not an endorsement).
I've been following the Plant Paradox food guidelines since I started my TRT program with this doctor, and based on how well I feel, I'm gradually growing to embrace it. I still need to keep vigilant about my thyroid functioning.
antelopers
Active Member
I've seen him mention in interviews and articles that he preferred transdermal because it most closely mimics natural t fluctuations compared to other methods
Yes, I recall that statement in his book, and that seems to be the case for me.
Those are some amazing results on just 4 clicks in your initial labs. Where is your cream from?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
What dr crisler wrote and actually practiced are two different things. I was a patient of his
antelopers
Active Member
Would you mind sharing the differences? I'm curious
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
In my 7 years as a patient of his he never once offered me t gel. And when I asked he told me no shots are better. Maybe he meant it for a guy in my situation but I don’t see why we wouldn’t try when nothing else worked for me
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