Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate

[CKO]

I went through this several times with nandrolone. Admittedly, with each trial of nandrolone my test dose was such that my E2 was already high before adding nandrolone. Interestingly, each time I have added nandrolone I always feel fantastic for the first week or two. Then at about 3 or 4 weeks, I start to get intrusive thoughts, etc. Nothing psycho, but just irrational jealousies and insecurities. At that point I discontinue nandrolone, and gradually things go back to normal in several weeks.

Something I would like to try would be to either significantly reduce my test dose, then add a low dose of nandrolone, or try the nandrolone based protocol that you have discussed here (though I have my concerns about the long term viability of such a protocol).

Hilarious and accurate description. Irrational insecurities and jealousy hits me pretty bad with nandrolone. I have to take less than 50mg a week and take a week off every couple months to avoid.

I tried running nandrolone solo and with a low dose test cyp. My motivation went to zero, so that's not for me either.

 

[Gman86]

Hilarious and accurate description. Irrational insecurities and jealousy hits me pretty bad with nandrolone. I have to take less than 50mg a week and take a week off every couple months to avoid.

I tried running nandrolone solo and with a low dose test cyp. My motivation went to zero, so that's not for me either.

What were ur deca and test cyp dosages when running the nandrolone base with test?

And what was ur deca solo dose?

 

[Gman86]

I went through this several times with nandrolone. Admittedly, with each trial of nandrolone my test dose was such that my E2 was already high before adding nandrolone. Interestingly, each time I have added nandrolone I always feel fantastic for the first week or two. Then at about 3 or 4 weeks, I start to get intrusive thoughts, etc. Nothing psycho, but just irrational jealousies and insecurities. At that point I discontinue nandrolone, and gradually things go back to normal in several weeks.

Something I would like to try would be to either significantly reduce my test dose, then add a low dose of nandrolone, or try the nandrolone based protocol that you have discussed here (though I have my concerns about the long term viability of such a protocol).

Were u using deca or NPP?

And what dosages of test and nandrolone were u using each time u tried the combo?

What are ur concerns, in regards to the long term viability of a nandrolone base, with low dose test?

 

[HSLD]

Were u using deca or NPP?

And what dosages of test and nandrolone were u using each time u tried the combo?

What are ur concerns, in regards to the long term viability of a nandrolone base, with low dose test?

Nandrolone Decanoate.

I tried a lot of different combos. 150 TE 100 ND, 100 TE 100 ND, 120 TE 60 TE, 90 TE 50 ND, etc.

My concerns are mainly that it doesn't seem healthy or natural (yes, I'm aware that "natural" is loosely defined when we're replacing our hormones lol). My more immediate concern is that ND just doesn't seem to agree with me.

 

[CKO]

Nandrolone only 180mg a week. Nandrolone with test cyp: 150/25 a week.

Nandrolone is amazing for joints and anti inflammatory. I can feel the benefits, but you have to watch the mental sides.

 

[Seagal]

Has any of you tried HGH instead of nandro for joint pain/healing? I know, in terms of costs it is not an equal alternative.

 

[USMC]

Sounds like everything is going pretty well for u, so if u can get some joint pain reduction from the nandrolone, and notice no other changes, I’d say that’s a win!

Welp, this all started as a "log," so listing the good and bad for information:

I'm thinking I shouldn't have added the Adex to the mix. I'm having a slight issue with maintaining an erection Without testing, I'm just guessing but I think my estradiol has tanked. Some muscle and joint pain along with the above. Or, could it be the "decadick?" I'm doubting that as my 2:1 protocol is supposed to prevent that.. right? I'm stopping the Adex and will report back.

 

[Gman86]

Welp, this all started as a "log," so listing the good and bad for information:

I'm thinking I shouldn't have added the Adex to the mix. I'm having a slight issue with maintaining an erection Without testing, I'm just guessing but I think my estradiol has tanked. Some muscle and joint pain along with the above. Or, could it be the "decadick?" I'm doubting that as my 2:1 protocol is supposed to prevent that.. right? I'm stopping the Adex and will report back.

1.5mg of adex per week is way too high, imo. I personally don’t mess with AI’s at all anymore, simply because I could never get consistently dialed in on them. And that included EQ. It was just not reliable what I was gonna consistently get. But I did use them for years. Adex and exemestane. Have had more labs on them than I can count. And throughout the time I was on them, I realized they are really powerful. 1.5mg of adex per week would crush most people’s E2. Men on HRT, at least. I would say the average dose, that would work for most men on HRT, if the need it, would be around 0.5mg/ week. So either drop it completely, which I would probably recommend, or lower it dose to around 0.5mg/ week, or less. I always advocate for using DHT derivatives, to control estrogen, over AI’s tho. Things always feel way more consistent, using dht derivatives, vs AI’s, to control estrogen

One of the reasons I switched to a nandrolone based protocol is so I didn’t have to use anything to control estrogen. To control estrogen, on a nandrolone base, all u have to do is increase or decrease ur test dose. Doing that is what controls ur E2, DHT and prolactin levels. Which is nice, because there’s no need for AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and/ or prolactin controlling meds

 

[USMC]

1.5mg of adex per week is way too high, imo. I personally don’t mess with AI’s at all anymore, simply because I could never get consistently dialed in on them. And that included EQ. It was just not reliable what I was gonna consistently get. But I did use them for years. Adex and exemestane. Have had more labs on them than I can count. And throughout the time I was on them, I realized they are really powerful. 1.5mg of adex per week would crush most people’s E2. Men on HRT, at least. I would say the average dose, that would work for most men on HRT, if the need it, would be around 0.5mg/ week. So either drop it completely, which I would probably recommend, or lower it dose to around 0.5mg/ week, or less. I always advocate for using DHT derivatives, to control estrogen, over AI’s tho. Things always feel way more consistent, using dht derivatives, vs AI’s, to control estrogen

One of the reasons I switched to a nandrolone based protocol is so I didn’t have to use anything to control estrogen. To control estrogen, on a nandrolone base, all u have to do is increase or decrease ur test dose. Doing that is what controls ur E2, DHT and prolactin levels. Which is nice, because there’s no need for AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and/ or prolactin controlling meds

Yep, great stuff! Such a learning curve. I'm going to drop it completely! Lesson learned How long before estradiol comes back? Days, weeks, months?

 

[Seagal]

Yep, great stuff! Such a learning curve. I'm going to drop it completely! Lesson learned How long before estradiol comes back? Days, weeks, months?

Seems you are more of a hands-on guy. Be more careful in future. I once thought to just give deca base a try. Big mistake for me; took me almost two weeks with proviron to get my 'androgens' back to feel normal again.

 

[USMC]

Seems you are more of a hands-on guy. Be more careful in future. I once thought to just give deca base a try. Big mistake for me; took me almost two weeks with proviron to get my 'androgens' back to feel normal again.

Yeah, there is so much info to weed through. Some of which works for some, and not for others. I've read that an AI is needed on my protocol, and I've read that an AI isn't. So for "safety," I figured I would add it Looking back I see that those that use an AI are also using MUCH higher doses than I am. Hoping my mistake helps others that are traversing this road.

 

[Seagal]

Yeah, there is so much info to weed through. Some of which works for some, and not for others. I've read that an AI is needed on my protocol, and I've read that an AI isn't. So for "safety," I figured I would add it Looking back I see that those that use an AI are also using MUCH higher doses than I am. Hoping my mistake helps others that are traversing this road.

Everyone has his own way of learning. And afterwards it's always easy to comment on. Btw. 100T+50N is also a 2:1 ratio

 

[USMC]

1.5mg of adex per week is way too high, imo. I personally don’t mess with AI’s at all anymore, simply because I could never get consistently dialed in on them. And that included EQ. It was just not reliable what I was gonna consistently get. But I did use them for years. Adex and exemestane. Have had more labs on them than I can count. And throughout the time I was on them, I realized they are really powerful. 1.5mg of adex per week would crush most people’s E2. Men on HRT, at least. I would say the average dose, that would work for most men on HRT, if the need it, would be around 0.5mg/ week. So either drop it completely, which I would probably recommend, or lower it dose to around 0.5mg/ week, or less. I always advocate for using DHT derivatives, to control estrogen, over AI’s tho. Things always feel way more consistent, using dht derivatives, vs AI’s, to control estrogen

One of the reasons I switched to a nandrolone based protocol is so I didn’t have to use anything to control estrogen. To control estrogen, on a nandrolone base, all u have to do is increase or decrease ur test dose. Doing that is what controls ur E2, DHT and prolactin levels. Which is nice, because there’s no need for AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and/ or prolactin controlling meds

Was readying your other post and I may try reversing and making Nandrolone my base. Say 200 ND and 80 Test C.. No AI needed but do you worry about Progesterone?

 

[JMP]

Been on TRT at 150mg/wk for 3 yrs and 170mg/wk for the next 4yrs. Puts me around 800 at my trough. All was going well and never felt the need to change protocols. My only complaint has been joint pain, so 6 moths ago I switched to 120mg T and 80 Nandrolone and I have never felt better. Joint pain mostly gone and sexual function a bit better than it was. No mental or other sides. I always had good luck with TRT and I know that's not the case for everyone, but I (so far) am a believer in adding Nandrolone in the traditional way (approx. 2:1) to a protocol. When I started I was at a 240 level and had most of the low T symptoms. TRT has been a huge benefit to my life over the last number of yrs.

 

[Gman86]

Was readying your other post and I may try reversing and making Nandrolone my base. Say 200 ND and 80 Test C.. No AI needed but do you worry about Progesterone?

Definitely start way lower with ur test dose. U don’t want to overshoot ur sweetspot for E2, dht and prolactin. Starting too high and overshooting the sweetspot with everything is one of the worst mistakes u can make, with any protocol. I would recommend starting with nandrolone at 200, and test around 20mg/ week. 30mg at most.

And I don’t worry about prog, on a nandrolone base, but I do think about it a lot. I just wish we knew, definitively, how progestins reacted with actual prog receptors. Maybe the info is out there, I’ve just never come across it, or have found anyone that definitively knows. Like does it act on the prog receptor similar to bio-identical prog? Does it fill the prog receptors, but not carry out the actions that bio-identical prog does, and also block bio-identical prog from getting into the prog receptors? I want answers to these questions more than u could imagine! lol. What I do know, is some guys feel way better on a nandrolone base, than on a test best, which is why I don’t worry too much about it. Whatever is actually going on, seems to work well for some guys, and I think it’s important to listen to the body. If u feel and function good, in all areas, that’s probably a good sign that things in ur body are working well. Obv there’s exceptions to this. Like if a bodybuilder is on 1000mg of gear, and feels awesome, that doesn’t necessarily mean his body is in a state of optimal health. But in general, I personally don’t worry too much about prog, on a nandrolone base, if everything is going well subjectively and objectively.

And ya, that’s the best part of a nandrolone base. Instead of getting ur androgens up with exogenous test, and then possibly needing to lower E2, dht, and/ or prolactin, while trying to keep androgens the same, it’s the opposite with a nandrolone base. U keep androgens high with the nandrolone, and then u have to raise up ur E2, dht and prolactin, with the test. But it’s awesome, because all ur androgen needs are covered with the nandrolone, so u simply start as low as possible with the test, and titrate it up until u find ur sweetspot. And test is bio-identical, no need to worry about sides from it. Unlike meds that one would need to take to lower E2, dht, and/or prolactin, such as AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and meds to lower prolactin, such as cabergoline, pramipexole and bromocriptine.

 

[Gman86]

Yep, great stuff! Such a learning curve. I'm going to drop it completely! Lesson learned How long before estradiol comes back? Days, weeks, months?

Not long. Would imagine ur E2 would regulate in a week or two. Half life of arimidex is short

 

[Mr_Fusion]

Definitely start way lower with ur test dose. U don’t want to overshoot ur sweetspot for E2, dht and prolactin. Starting too high and overshooting the sweetspot with everything is one of the worst mistakes u can make, with any protocol. I would recommend starting with nandrolone at 200, and test around 20mg/ week. 30mg at most.

And I don’t worry about prog, on a nandrolone base, but I do think about it a lot. I just wish we knew, definitively, how progestins reacted with actual prog receptors. Maybe the info is out there, I’ve just never come across it, or have found anyone that definitively knows. Like does it act on the prog receptor similar to bio-identical prog? Does it fill the prog receptors, but not carry out the actions that bio-identical prog does, and also block bio-identical prog from getting into the prog receptors? I want answers to these questions more than u could imagine! lol. What I do know, is some guys feel way better on a nandrolone base, than on a test best, which is why I don’t worry too much about it. Whatever is actually going on, seems to work well for some guys, and I think it’s important to listen to the body. If u feel and function good, in all areas, that’s probably a good sign that things in ur body are working well. Obv there’s exceptions to this. Like if a bodybuilder is on 1000mg of gear, and feels awesome, that doesn’t necessarily mean his body is in a state of optimal health. But in general, I personally don’t worry too much about prog, on a nandrolone base, if everything is going well subjectively and objectively.

And ya, that’s the best part of a nandrolone base. Instead of getting ur androgens up with exogenous test, and then possibly needing to lower E2, dht, and/ or prolactin, while trying to keep androgens the same, it’s the opposite with a nandrolone base. U keep androgens high with the nandrolone, and then u have to raise up ur E2, dht and prolactin, with the test. But it’s awesome, because all ur androgen needs are covered with the nandrolone, so u simply start as low as possible with the test, and titrate it up until u find ur sweetspot. And test is bio-identical, no need to worry about sides from it. Unlike meds that one would need to take to lower E2, dht, and/or prolactin, such as AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and meds to lower prolactin, such as cabergoline, pramipexole and bromocriptine.

I am very interested in staring a nandrolone base and you seem quite knowledgable on the subject. What would be a good expectation for my total-t level to look like at 200mg nandrolone/20mg test per week?

 

[Gman86]

I am very interested in staring a nandrolone base and you seem quite knowledgable on the subject. What would be a good expectation for my total-t level to look like at 200mg nandrolone/20mg test per week?

I mean everyone is different, in regards to where their test levels will fall on a certain amount of exogenous testosterone, but I think u could probably expect to see a total T level of around 200-300. I personally seem to get a total T level that’s 10x whatever my test dose is. For instance, when I was on a nandrolone base, back in 2020, I kept my nandrolone dose at 200mg the whole time, but used test dosages from 40-100mg/ week with it. When I was on 200mg of deca, and 80mg of test, my total T level came back at 780. And just throughout the years, I seem to get test levels around 10x my test dosage. So 100mg of test results in around 1000 total, for me personally. Again, everyone is different tho

Just remember that if u get the sensitive version of the total testosterone panel, it will only pickup whatever test ur on. U could take 1000mg of nandrolone, and none of it will increase ur total T level. Nandrolone will only increase ur total T level on a non sensitive total T panel, because it’s not sensitive enough to know the difference between nandrolone and testosterone molecules, so it just adds them together. So make sure u always get a total T panel with LC/MS or LC/MS-MS after it, while on a nandrolone base. Unless u want the nandrolone to show up as test or something. Like if u try a nandrolone base on ur own, u can have ur test levels show up at like 200-300. Ur doctor will be like wtf is going on here lol. So just get the panel done that works best for u. Just always remember the sensitive version will only pickup whatever test ur on, and the non sensitive version will add the nandrolone and test together, making ur test level look way higher than it actually is

So just to make it clear, incase I didn’t already, nandrolone doesn’t increase ur actual testosterone levels at all

 

[USMC]

Definitely start way lower with ur test dose. U don’t want to overshoot ur sweetspot for E2, dht and prolactin. Starting too high and overshooting the sweetspot with everything is one of the worst mistakes u can make, with any protocol. I would recommend starting with nandrolone at 200, and test around 20mg/ week. 30mg at most.

And I don’t worry about prog, on a nandrolone base, but I do think about it a lot. I just wish we knew, definitively, how progestins reacted with actual prog receptors. Maybe the info is out there, I’ve just never come across it, or have found anyone that definitively knows. Like does it act on the prog receptor similar to bio-identical prog? Does it fill the prog receptors, but not carry out the actions that bio-identical prog does, and also block bio-identical prog from getting into the prog receptors? I want answers to these questions more than u could imagine! lol. What I do know, is some guys feel way better on a nandrolone base, than on a test best, which is why I don’t worry too much about it. Whatever is actually going on, seems to work well for some guys, and I think it’s important to listen to the body. If u feel and function good, in all areas, that’s probably a good sign that things in ur body are working well. Obv there’s exceptions to this. Like if a bodybuilder is on 1000mg of gear, and feels awesome, that doesn’t necessarily mean his body is in a state of optimal health. But in general, I personally don’t worry too much about prog, on a nandrolone base, if everything is going well subjectively and objectively.

And ya, that’s the best part of a nandrolone base. Instead of getting ur androgens up with exogenous test, and then possibly needing to lower E2, dht, and/ or prolactin, while trying to keep androgens the same, it’s the opposite with a nandrolone base. U keep androgens high with the nandrolone, and then u have to raise up ur E2, dht and prolactin, with the test. But it’s awesome, because all ur androgen needs are covered with the nandrolone, so u simply start as low as possible with the test, and titrate it up until u find ur sweetspot. And test is bio-identical, no need to worry about sides from it. Unlike meds that one would need to take to lower E2, dht, and/or prolactin, such as AI’s, 5ar enzyme inhibitors, and meds to lower prolactin, such as cabergoline, pramipexole and bromocriptine.

I'm starting to see improvement in my E2 and ED I may wait for all that to sort out before I change everything around. I may even finish off this cycle before I change it up to see how it works and then try the other way around. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Gman86]

I'm starting to see improvement in my E2 and ED I may wait for all that to sort out before I change everything around. I may even finish off this cycle before I change it up to see how it works and then try the other way around. Thanks for all the advice!

Glad to hear it! And anytime brotha