I've averaged 25-35 mcg per day of anastrozole.
Ditch your AI now - you don't need it!
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The problem is that people have taken a position that AIs are the devils candy. They make these statements about them being toxic with no proof to back it up. We all agree that walking around with an E2 of 0 is dangerous. But no one can show any evidence where using whatever dose of AI keeps your E2 levels normal (15-30) does any harm at all.
And yes some guys like myself are gyno prone and if I need to have a 1100 T level to be symptom free and this pushes my E2 to a level where I will have Gynecomastia growth then please show me where an AI keeping my E2 at 25 is harmful.
I am not at all fat. I am 6’1” and weight 195 with a nice amount of muscle. I eat clean. Never drink alcohol, never smoke anything.
If I am harming myself then show me proof. I can’t find a single piece of it.
And yes some guys like myself are gyno prone and if I need to have a 1100 T level to be symptom free and this pushes my E2 to a level where I will have Gynecomastia growth then please show me where an AI keeping my E2 at 25 is harmful.
I am not at all fat. I am 6’1” and weight 195 with a nice amount of muscle. I eat clean. Never drink alcohol, never smoke anything.
If I am harming myself then show me proof. I can’t find a single piece of it.
Stop it...no doctors are letting guys walk around with E2 less than 10.
So my brother has a natural T level of 900. His E2 level was 15. Should he be supplementing with estrogen now? What is this balance nonsense. Your bones don’t know care what your T levels are when determining if they are strong enough from the healthy E2 supply.
Honestly, if you're not here to argue then why would you say something absurd like this? It's inflammatory and obviously false. Even cyanide is harmless if you ingest only a few molecules. And water is toxic if you ingest too much.
Agree. But that was not what you said. You were not able to find a single study that shows that the use of an AI that keeps E2 in a healthy range is detrimental to someone’s health (or a poison using your own words). And now you say you are not here to argue after telling everyone that you know everything and we don’t and that you would show proof (medical studies) but you couldn’t.
I just hope you learned something out of this. Wish you best of luck
Guys, forgive me for my oversight, but I just realized something. Isn't this Nelson Vergel's site? Isn't he totally against using an AI? Or did he change his position on this?
If you think doctor's aren't letting guys walk around with an E2 of less than 10, think again. I know of one famous doctor that had guys under 5! Taking 3mg of Arimidex a week!
@Cataceous I can promise you that if I gave you a few molecules of cyanide you wouldn't ingest them if I paid you. None of us would.
I challenge anyone here to try what I suggested, to get off the AI for a bit, let the body adjust, and then tell me whether or not I was wrong.
If you think doctor's aren't letting guys walk around with an E2 of less than 10, think again. I know of one famous doctor that had guys under 5! Taking 3mg of Arimidex a week!
@Cataceous I can promise you that if I gave you a few molecules of cyanide you wouldn't ingest them if I paid you. None of us would.
I challenge anyone here to try what I suggested, to get off the AI for a bit, let the body adjust, and then tell me whether or not I was wrong.
@HealthMan go back and see the links I posted. Keeping E2 that low eliminates all of the benefits that E2 has to offer in the first place.
Now you are trying to change the subject. You said AI is a poison and that no one should use it. You were not talking about tanking someone estradiol. Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself
@HealthMan I can say the same. Keeping E2 low is BAD. Taking an AI is toxic no matter the dose and it's BAD.
Does that simplify things? I have not changed the subject.
Does that simplify things? I have not changed the subject.
No one here ever said that too low of e2 levels is healthy. Quite the contrary including myself. Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself.
AI are overly prescribed yes. There are doctors out there that are clueless and over prescribe AI yes. Are there other strategies other than taking an AI to control high e2 symptoms yes. The use of an AI in some cases is warranted yes.
Cool. Show us the 1000 studies you said prove AI are poison (when keeping e2 levels at healthy ranges). We are all waiting.
Taking AI to decrease your gyno is ok for that, for GYNO, but not good for anything else, regarding your bones, heart, brain. The only solution to get rid of bitch tits is a surgery and we all know that.... You can keep using AI to suppress tissue growth, it works great, but at what cost ?
Like Nelson said, in a decade or two, we will see a victims of AI generation.
All of you that keeps you e2 even in range with Arimidex, should do a Dexa scan, and report here with your results. Decrease of HDL is a sign that AIs are not good for my health, even on TINY dose of only 0.25mg a week, it drops more than 30% compared to OFF
When people start to die from cardivascular diseases in a future, they will blame T on that, not AIs that steal the protective effect of TRT
Like Nelson said, in a decade or two, we will see a victims of AI generation.
All of you that keeps you e2 even in range with Arimidex, should do a Dexa scan, and report here with your results. Decrease of HDL is a sign that AIs are not good for my health, even on TINY dose of only 0.25mg a week, it drops more than 30% compared to OFF
When people start to die from cardivascular diseases in a future, they will blame T on that, not AIs that steal the protective effect of TRT
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Ignorance again. There are other “solutions” for gyno. For example the use of SERMs like tamoxifen (many medical studies showing that just google). Breast tissue will develop in most men at certain E2 levels. Sometimes dosage reduction etc is not enough to avoid that without negating all the benefits of TRR. In that case a small AI dosage is warranted. Not to reverse gyno but to avoid it developing in the first place.
Show us a study proving that the use of an AI where the subject e2 levels are kept at healthy ranges causes problems with bones, heart, brain. A different story would be keeping someone e2 levels way low for a long period of time. This is medical malpractice and unfortunately it happens a lot out there.
So around a 1/4 tab per week. So when you don’t use this, you feel negative symptoms? And you’ve gone more than 2-3 weeks off of the ai?
If guys take a small dose of ai, to keep his E2 say between 35-60, there should be no risk of harm. If there was, what about 20 year old men with a total testosterone of 1000, and E2 of 40 naturally? You’re saying they are at risk due to having “low estrogen” and should take supplemental estrogen to raise it? How is a guy on TRT with 1000 total, and E2 of 40, any different than a healthy boy/ young man with the same numbers?
So what part of an AI is going to cause bone loss?
If my E2 levels are healthy and I take an AI then somehow the AI is going to hurt my bones?
Your argument is illogical.
It’s not the AI that harms anyone it’s the side effects of too low E2.
But I don’t have low E2 even with an AI.
So explain that one to me.
You AI haters would be better suited just warning people about AI abuse. Not use. Your hurting what could be a good message.
@HealthMan if you think that SERMS eliminate all gyno I would have to say you are the ignorant one. I'd had mild gyno since I was a teen and I've tried EVERYTHING. Tamoxifen, getting lean, weight training, diet changes, lowering E2 to drastic levels... the gyno is still there. The only thing that will fix it is surgery.
Everything that goes against what you say and it's "Ignorance". You're like a horse with blinders on.
@Speed I agree with you.
@tmaxey1 it's not just the low E2!! It's the AI itself that is TOXIC!
When some of you guys start dropping dead due to AI use I hope someone resurrects this thread. AI's cause micro blisters along capillary walls. Peace!!
Everything that goes against what you say and it's "Ignorance". You're like a horse with blinders on.
@Speed I agree with you.
@tmaxey1 it's not just the low E2!! It's the AI itself that is TOXIC!
When some of you guys start dropping dead due to AI use I hope someone resurrects this thread. AI's cause micro blisters along capillary walls. Peace!!
@HealthMan if you think that SERMS eliminate all gyno I would have to say you are the ignorant one. I'd had mild gyno since I was a teen and I've tried EVERYTHING. Tamoxifen, getting lean, weight training, diet changes, lowering E2 to drastic levels... the gyno is still there. The only thing that will fix it is surgery.
Everything that goes against what you say and it's "Ignorance". You're like a horse with blinders on.
@Speed I agree with you.
@tmaxey1 it's not just the low E2!! It's the AI itself that is TOXIC!
When some of you guys start dropping dead due to AI use I hope someone resurrects this thread. AI's cause micro blisters along capillary walls. Peace!!
Healthman is one of the most logical members on this forum. Degrading him is just taking away from the valid points that you have in your argument. I would refrain from taking stabs at guys here, especially ones that have been here for a while. Just some friendly words of advice. Just stick to trying to get your message and anectodal experience across. That’s what this forum is here for. Not to put down others or call them ignorant.
That’s interesting about ai’s causing micro blisters along capillary walls though. I’ve never heard that one before. I really hope that’s not true. How confident are you that this may be the case?
The only permanent solution for Gyno is a surgery, Tamoxifen is not that....
Like I said, I don't need a study to see HDL drops on any dose of AI, even if e2 is in a "healthy range"
Also, ALL of the studies that shows protective effects of TRT are WITHOUT AIs (no micro dosing here) and even if there is NO study that micro dosing is bad, you KNOW 100% (based on studies) that protective effect of T is ACTIVE in NO AI patients. Using AIs is only a guessing game, and I would use it only short term for symptom resolution like gyno or obesity before he lose fat, but ONLY SHORT TERM. Because, despite decreasing e2, AIs has side effects unrelated to blocking only aromatase
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