Ditch your AI now - you don't need it!

[HealthMan]

@Cataceous I wouldn't accept your unverified claims also so no worries there. Replying to everyone here and then I will send the links in a separate post. The mods can delete them if they see fit. I'm not here to cause any trouble with anyone. Driving estrogen too low is terrible (which is another subject) and you are asking for links of how AI isn't good for you. Those are the links I will provide.

@Gman86 You will feel worse because the body had a substance being given to it that was preventing something from occurring (aromatisation). When you stop the AI it takes awhile for the body to adjust to the 'new normal'. Most men feel worse during that period before they feel better. I do SubQ, to answer your question. Some guys prefer shallow IM. Why is everyone hung up on needle size?? 27's 1/2" make the injections easier but I find some of the oil seeps out of the injection site afterwards. 30's take longer but everything stays inside.

@madman I do enanthate also (it's just what is prescribed where I'm from). Try moving to daily shots. I absolutely promise you it is completely worth the extra hassle. Again, it's not the just low E2 levels that aren't good for you. The AI itself is toxic! It doesn't matter how small the dose is! Crisler was also using HCG and high dose DHEA. If I get back on DHEA my gyno will flare up like crazy. However, I already have high normal levels of DHEA so why take more if I don't need it?

@Speed That message from Crisler was due to something else entirely... and maybe not for the reasons you think....

@tmaxey1 who are you referring to? I'm not loyal to any one particular site. I get info from lots of places. There's a great big Internet outside this one site you know ;-)

@HealthMan you're back! Welcome! Though I thought this was the end of the discussion? ;-)

If you're taking an AI and really think you need it, it's probably because you are obese. If your bodyfat is 15% or less... maybe even as high as 20% or less, you don't need it. If you are over 15%, get yourself under and you definitely won't need it.

Everyone here starts taking T and immediately wants to add other shit to the mix. WHY?? Take JUST the T and nothing else. Figure how the dose that makes you feel the best. Screw the numbers on paper. If you take 10mg daily and feel amazing with a 600ng/dl but then take 20mg daily and feel like shit with a 950ng/dl then what fucking difference does the lab report make? Which dose MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER??

Here's the part that really makes me giggle. And trust me, I laugh at myself because I didn't realize this until recently:

EVERYTHING is BALANCE. We are here to BALANCE and OPTIMIZE. There is a BALANCE between testosterone and estrogen. I'm sure you can all agree on that one. But, even though you might agree, your critical thinking goes down the porcelain when we boost our testosterone to supra optimal levels but try to keep E2 at super low levels. That isn't balance. That's insanity. My E2 levels could be 90 right now for all I know. Who cares? I feel BETTER than I ever felt before and all the weird side effects I used to have while taking an AI are gone.

I will now compile the links. Do as you wish with them.

Ignorance is a bliss!

 

[dbossa]

It's 'Ignorance is bliss'. If you're going to use it, at least get it right ;-)

 

[HealthMan]

It's 'Ignorance is bliss'. If you're going to use it, at least get it right ;-)

Ok doctor TRT. I just came back to this thread because your ignorance is just bad information for the rest of the people here that are looking for good information. But like Vince said. Better just close this. Nothing anyone says will overcome your lack of knowledge and spreading bad info does no good to this forum.

 

[Gman86]

Lock it down because your opinion is different ? What is this?

Ya I’d have to agree. I understand what Vince is saying, but if you don’t like what is being said on a certain thread, just turn off notifications for it and don’t look at it. The lack of free speech on here is a bit annoying. Just because a thread is saying similar things to another dead thread, doesn’t mean it should be shut down. This thread could have completely different people in it than the other thread, which could lead to completely new and interesting opinions/ info, that we wouldn’t get to hear if it gets shut down for no reason. I just personally feel there is a lot more positives to keeping it open, than there are to closing it. That’s my opinion on 99% of the threads that prematurely get closed because of a moderator’s opinion on that specific thread. All due respect obviously.

 

[dbossa]

@HealthMan if everyone ended a conversation anytime someone made a statement that others disagreed with, we would still be living in caves. Nobody is forcing you to be here. You keep coming back on your own. If I strike you as someone 'unknowledgeable' with everything I just shared then I really don't know what to say. You have a right to your opinion

By the way, there are more than 1000 studies on Medline/PubMed with regard to using an AI and not a single one shows anything good or beneficial.

Here's one I read lately that was good with tons of links to studies at the bottom. For some reason the page was taking long to load just now so be patient if it happens to you as well. It was posted just a few days ago and covered

 

[dbossa]

Here's one I read lately that was good with tons of links to studies at the bottom. For some reason the page was taking long to load just now so be patient if it happens to you as well. It was posted just a few days ago and covered:

https://educationbuzz.net/2019/02/2...know-about-testosterone-optimization-therapy/

 

[HealthMan]

@HealthMan if everyone ended a conversation anytime someone made a statement that others disagreed with, we would still be living in caves. Nobody is forcing you to be here. You keep coming back on your own. If I strike you as someone 'unknowledgeable' with everything I just shared then I really don't know what to say. You have a right to your opinion

By the way, there are more than 1000 studies on Medline/PubMed with regard to using an AI and not a single one shows anything good or beneficial.

Here's one I read lately that was good with tons of links to studies at the bottom. For some reason the page was taking long to load just now so be patient if it happens to you as well. It was posted just a few days ago and covered

Difference of opinion is one thing. Bad and dangerous recommendations like yours is a different thing. To say that your experience is replicable to every single men is ignorance. All I am trying to do is protect people that will read this forum and think that no one needs an AI. That AI is poison. And that to control gyno you simply have to lower your dosage and then double it slowly. Bro science.

 

[dbossa]

There is quite a bit of content by Dr Neal Rouzier. Too many to link here. There was one I caught a few weeks ago where he discussed Estrogen in men and talked about AI use:

Mods, again, delete as necessary I don't want to link to anything you guys don't like for any reason I don't know about.

 

[Cataceous]

...
If you're taking an AI and really think you need it, it's probably because you are obese. If your bodyfat is 15% or less... maybe even as high as 20% or less, you don't need it. If you are over 15%, get yourself under and you definitely won't need it.

Everyone here starts taking T and immediately wants to add other shit to the mix. WHY?? Take JUST the T and nothing else. Figure how the dose that makes you feel the best. Screw the numbers on paper. If you take 10mg daily and feel amazing with a 600ng/dl but then take 20mg daily and feel like shit with a 950ng/dl then what fucking difference does the lab report make? Which dose MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER??
...

No, no and more "no"s to all the purported wrongs. Slender, competitive athlete, small EOD dosing, normal SHBG, not overly sensitive to hCG.

Also no need for a straw-man argument. How many are really saying to immediately "add other" stuff to the mix? I went without an AI for over two years. Now I've gone a year with micro-dosing. It's been a useful comparison.

 

[dbossa]

So just to confirm, you're taking a drug that I'm not taking. Yet my recommendation is dangerous?

This is dangerous:

Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[Gman86]

@HealthMan if everyone ended a conversation anytime someone made a statement that others disagreed with, we would still be living in caves. Nobody is forcing you to be here. You keep coming back on your own. If I strike you as someone 'unknowledgeable' with everything I just shared then I really don't know what to say. You have a right to your opinion

By the way, there are more than 1000 studies on Medline/PubMed with regard to using an AI and not a single one shows anything good or beneficial.

Here's one I read lately that was good with tons of links to studies at the bottom. For some reason the page was taking long to load just now so be patient if it happens to you as well. It was posted just a few days ago and covered

Did any one of those thousand studies use extremely low dose ai and keep men’s FREE E2 in the normal range? If not, I think it’s safe to say all 1000 studies do not pertain to what we’re talking about. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there are zero studies using low dose ai to keep a man’s TOTAL E2 within the normal range, let alone FREE E2, which is what matters, and what would be of importance.

 

[HealthMan]

So just to confirm, you're taking a drug that I'm not taking. Yet my recommendation is dangerous?

This is dangerous:

Medscape: Medscape Access

I dont take an AI fyi.

 

[Gman86]

No, no and more "no"s to all the purported wrongs. Slender, competitive athlete, small EOD dosing, normal SHBG, not overly sensitive to hCG.

Also no need for a straw-man argument. How many are really saying to immediately "add other" stuff to the mix? I went without an AI for over two years. Now I've gone a year with micro-dosing. It's been a useful comparison.

So you feel better micro dosing an ai? What do you consider a micro dosage?

 

[tmaxey1]

Here's one I read lately that was good with tons of links to studies at the bottom. For some reason the page was taking long to load just now so be patient if it happens to you as well. It was posted just a few days ago and covered:

https://educationbuzz.net/2019/02/2...know-about-testosterone-optimization-therapy/

This is a link to an opinion piece by Jay Campbell.
This isn’t a study that proves AI is toxic to biological systems or shows a man using an AI to keep his E2 at a healthy 15-30 level.

 

[HealthMan]

There is quite a bit of content by Dr Neal Rouzier. Too many to link here. There was one I caught a few weeks ago where he discussed Estrogen in men and talked about AI use:

Mods, again, delete as necessary I don't want to link to anything you guys don't like for any reason I don't know about.

I have read Dr Rouzier book have you? Do you know he recommends an AI in cases like gyno while on TRT? Oh well he does

 

[dbossa]

I was micro dosing as well. 0.25mg twice a week. Sometimes only once a week. Then I started reading stuff outside the forums like this:

Testosterone inhibits early atherogenesis by conversion to estradiol: Critical role of aromatase

 

[dbossa]

And this:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...DUvdjUesurNr5g0U68w7qvvZ4jxP_Jln0QnOxDNzY00lk

 

[HealthMan]

And this:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.10...DUvdjUesurNr5g0U68w7qvvZ4jxP_Jln0QnOxDNzY00lk

Yea estrogen at certain levels is protective. No one here is saying to tank you E2 with an AI.

 

[dbossa]

Anyway guys. Not here to argue. You can do as you wish with what I shared. I will never go back to using an AI. In fact, I can almost swear that I feel like my body is healing from the damage the stuff did to it... and feeling better and better with every passing day.

This is knowledge like anything else. You can disregard it, try it out for yourself, agree with it, or say that it's all bullshit. I do the exact same thing with everything I read and you should too.

 

[dbossa]

@HealthMan there are guys here that keep there E2 below 10 for crissakes. Even below 30 with high T... it just doesn't make sense as the balance between the two no longer exists. It gets completely out of whack.