Ditch your AI now - you don't need it!

[Cataceous]

...
The following excerpt is from a study published in 2010:

The clinical consequences of higher E2 levels and higher E2:T ratios in older men remain poorly understood. In longitudinal studies in older men, higher E2 levels have been associated with adverse outcomes such as stroke (38) and cognitive decline (39). In cross-sectional studies, higher E2 levels have been associated with the increased risk of metabolic syndrome (40) and type 2 diabetes mellitus.
...

In fairness we need to examine underlying studies for at least two confounding factors: First, did they measure estradiol with minimal cross-reactivity? Any study that's measuring C-reactive protein along with estradiol is going to make higher levels look bad. Second, did they account for those who are overweight or obese? These conditions raise estradiol through higher aromatase, but they will correlate independently with higher mortality.

 

[Dansk]

I smell a troll

 

[user_joe]

I’m coming around to the idea that symptoms associated with high e2 are temporary as well. I personally required about .5-.7g/wk for 2-3 years to feel optimal on 200mg/wk.

I was always just going be feel as I always ended up too low on any steady regimen.

I’m currently on 300/wk dosed daily along with 1000mg/wk hcg dosed daily as well. Bloods on 2-1 showed 9ng/dl on a range of 0.5-5. I was dosing tiny bits of ai about e7d a couple months prior. I’ve had none in the past month and feel great. TT is like 1800. Topped the 1600 limit dosing daily. Was around 1200 on e3.5 day same dose.

If I was starting all over again or treating a friend I’d use as little ai as I possibly could with the end game being no ai at same test dose or lowering the dose.

Damn ai has been more trouble than it’s worth, but I’ll be damned if I would have done well in the beginning without it. I used to retain water and feel “off.” Without it.

 

[dbossa]

No troll... I absolutely assure you. Should you watch it, and disagree with the whole thing, by all means say so. No harm done.

 

[rafapark]

A tip of the hat to the late Curt Moyer for his page on normal estradiol levels in non-obese males. The underlying reference is here.
Age range: Average estradiol measured by RIA

Looking at the reference we find that the standard deviation for the youngest cohort—with the highest estradiol—is 6.4 pg/mL. So how many men are expected to be above three standard deviations from the average, meaning above 47 pg/mL? The answer, about one in 740. What about four standard deviations, above 54 pg/mL? Answer: about one in 31,574. So you can see that's getting pretty far away from what's expected in healthy young men, whose physiologies we are generally trying to reproduce.

I am new to this but I thought that Estradiol, just as Testosterone binds to SHBG.I assume "in range" estradiol depends on the person SHBG so not sure how somebody came up with those "normal ranges". So a person with high SHBG is "allowed" higher estradiol. My SHBG is 53 and my E2 is 41 and I feel much better now than when my E2 was at 25 for example. I reduced my AI to 0.125 from 0.5 twice a week and will eliminate it to see what happens.

 

[Gman86]

I am new to this but I thought that Estradiol, just as Testosterone binds to SHBG.I assume "in range" estradiol depends on the person SHBG so not sure how somebody came up with those "normal ranges". So a person with high SHBG is "allowed" higher estradiol. My SHBG is 53 and my E2 is 41 and I feel much better now than when my E2 was at 25 for example. I reduced my AI to 0.125 from 0.5 twice a week and will eliminate it to see what happens.

Yup, you’re 100% spot on. It’s all about free E2. When talking about a person’s total E2, you really need factor in their SHBG and albumin levels. Both of them bind to sex hormones. I also like to see where a person’s free T is compared to his total. That will also tell you roughly how much free E2 he should have compared to total E2. You also have to factor in that some people have stickier SHBG and Albumin than others. For example, there was a guy that had basically the same total T as me, same SHBG, and a little higher Albumin than me. So theoretically he should of had around the same free T as me, or slightly lower since his Albumin was higher. But he actually had a free T quite higher than mine. Like 30% higher. So how much your SHBG and Albumin bind, have to be taken into consideration as well, not just the numbers themselves. Again, after you’ve seen enough labs, seeing how much free T compared to their total T will give you a good idea where someone’s free E2 is, compared to their total E2.

 

[Gman86]

I’m coming around to the idea that symptoms associated with high e2 are temporary as well. I personally required about .5-.7g/wk for 2-3 years to feel optimal on 200mg/wk.

I was always just going be feel as I always ended up too low on any steady regimen.

I’m currently on 300/wk dosed daily along with 1000mg/wk hcg dosed daily as well. Bloods on 2-1 showed 9ng/dl on a range of 0.5-5. I was dosing tiny bits of ai about e7d a couple months prior. I’ve had none in the past month and feel great. TT is like 1800. Topped the 1600 limit dosing daily. Was around 1200 on e3.5 day same dose.

If I was starting all over again or treating a friend I’d use as little ai as I possibly could with the end game being no ai at same test dose or lowering the dose.

Damn ai has been more trouble than it’s worth, but I’ll be damned if I would have done well in the beginning without it. I used to retain water and feel “off.” Without it.

At the beginning when you felt “off” how long did you go while feeling like this before you implemented an ai? Maybe you’re onto something, maybe for some guys, the high E2 symptoms are only temporary.

Also, when you stopped your ai a month ago, was there a week or so period where you felt pretty bad, or did you immediately go to how you’re feeling now?

 

[dbossa]

Equel, learn how to spell.

If I had seen this prior to starting this thread, I would have posted it. I literally just saw it today. Again, Jay barely says a word during this lecture. The doc does all the talking. Forget about Jay. I'm interested in learning more about this topic and this video was really good so I shared it. If you watch the video and disagree with it, say so. I'm interested in what people think of this lecture. Jay is irrelevant here.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Nelson has directed the podcasts referenced in the thread to be deleted. Because of unfortunate, recent history, it is in the best interest of Excelmale that material generated by the host and guests of these podcasts not appear on the site.

This thread is also now closed.