Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[Lowe2guy]

I've sat here and read through this whole thread and your the first person I think has the exact same situation as me. I cannot get my e2 up regardless of what I try so I tried the Fin experiment also. Made me feel awesome. Raging libido, great workouts etc. I just kept getting scared because of the horror stories you read about e2. Clearly though we have DHT that overpowers e2 either at the number or at the receptor level. Super frustrating. I just want to make this work and feel normal. What dose of FIN were you taking 1 mg daily?

I was taking 0.25 EOD than the full 1mg at time of my injections. I quit the fin and decided to try the e2 cream which worked but stopped working . I went back on fin thinking maybe the e2 cream just wasnt enough and my dht is just to much but so far the feelings i got the first time on fin have not returned feeling like complete crap, low e2 symptoms still persist ugh.

Whats your injection protocol? Are you still on the fin or no? How are you feeling?

 

[Checkdis]

Has anyone explored NAD therapy as a possible fix to crashed e2 that hasn’t resolved itself over years?

 

[murrayhewitt]

I was taking 0.25 EOD than the full 1mg at time of my injections. I quit the fin and decided to try the e2 cream which worked but stopped working . I went back on fin thinking maybe the e2 cream just wasnt enough and my dht is just to much but so far the feelings i got the first time on fin have not returned feeling like complete crap, low e2 symptoms still persist ugh.

Whats your injection protocol? Are you still on the fin or no? How are you feeling?

I'm too scared to take FIN long term. I know it may be a temporary solution but to me does not seem like a long term solution. Most recently I was doing 20mg EOD which had me feeling okay I guess. I'm thinking about switching to 40 mg every 3.5 days to try and see if that will bring up the E2 but I doubt it. Even when I was on 100mg once a week I had crazy low e2 sides. I actually just ordered some oral estradiol valerate from an overseas pharmacy. To me this seems like the most logical solution rather than trying to sneak around and backdoor all these other options in hopes to bring it up. I feel like a microdose of it should get me to the right spot. It's going to take some trial and error to get the right dose but I've suffered from low e2 side effects for so long I don't care if I endure some high ones for a little bit. I also can take a cialis and that instantly lowers my e2 within days.

 

[swolg8r]

I'm too scared to take FIN long term. I know it may be a temporary solution but to me does not seem like a long term solution. Most recently I was doing 20mg EOD which had me feeling okay I guess. I'm thinking about switching to 40 mg every 3.5 days to try and see if that will bring up the E2 but I doubt it. Even when I was on 100mg once a week I had crazy low e2 sides. I actually just ordered some oral estradiol valerate from an overseas pharmacy. To me this seems like the most logical solution rather than trying to sneak around and backdoor all these other options in hopes to bring it up. I feel like a microdose of it should get me to the right spot. It's going to take some trial and error to get the right dose but I've suffered from low e2 side effects for so long I don't care if I endure some high ones for a little bit. I also can take a cialis and that instantly lowers my e2 within days.

I’m curious to hear how it goes with the oral valerate. A couple courses of aromasin have brought my e2 down to 18 from 39 and I am suffering. Came off test to try and recover to figure out what was going on. May try estrogen before I hop on trt. It seems testosterone supplementation may not fox my estrogen problem.

 

[Checkdis]

The worst part about severe crashes e2 is the light headed feeling. Like you are on a boat. Or in a car looking down, then thinking you are moving but you are not.

 

[swolg8r]

The worst part about severe crashes e2 is the light headed feeling. Like you are on a boat. Or in a car looking down, then thinking you are moving but you are not.

The worse part for me is libido. It’s numb and that sucks.

 

[JmarkH]

The worst part about severe crashes e2 is the light headed feeling. Like you are on a boat. Or in a car looking down, then thinking you are moving but you are not.

I had terrible vertigo last year. The room would move like water. This was before investigating low T. I had settled into an extremely sedentary lifestyle. The doctor placed me on physical therapy which motivated me to start moving. I took up TaiChi again and began light exercise. The vertigo improved after most of the year and went away. Now I'm thinking it may have been tied to low E2. As I started moving and exercising my T and E likely began to improve.

 

[Checkdis]

I had terrible vertigo last year. The room would move like water. This was before investigating low T. I had settled into an extremely sedentary lifestyle. The doctor placed me on physical therapy which motivated me to start moving. I took up TaiChi again and began light exercise. The vertigo improved after most of the year and went away. Now I'm thinking it may have been tied to low E2. As I started moving and exercising my T and E likely began to improve.

Staying active certainly helps, but there are moments like cleaning the dishes or socializing I notice the feeling. It’s certainly not vertigo, but like being on a boat. I’m on TRT so it’s not low T, but as a result of crashing e2.

The worse part for me is libido. It’s numb and that sucks.

Surprisingly I never had this issue, I feel this is all mentally. Anxiety certainly plays a role in this symptom.

What helps is I don’t think about it, just keep going on with your life.

 

[Jerajera]

Estrogen deprivation leads to permanent death of Dopamine cells in the brain if Estrogen levels are not restored within 10 days: Estrogen Deprivation Leads To Death Of Dopamine Cells In The Brain

"Estrogen deprivation leads to the death of dopamine cells in the brain, a finding by Yale researchers that could have implications for post-menopausal women. The cells can be regenerated if estrogen is administered within 10 days, but by 30 days, the cells appear to be permanently lost" said D. Eugene Redmond, Jr., professor of psychiatry and neurosurgery at Yale School of Medicine and director of the Neural Transplantation and Regeneration Program.

"Without estrogen, more than 30 percent of all the dopamine neurons disappeared in a major area of the brain that produces the neurotransmitter, dopamine".

"These observations show the essential role of estrogen in maintaining the integrity of the nigral dopamine system involved in muscle control and higher brain functions"

 

[Checkdis]

Estrogen deprivation leads to permanent death of Dopamine cells in the brain if Estrogen levels are not restored within 10 days: Estrogen Deprivation Leads To Death Of Dopamine Cells In The Brain

"Estrogen deprivation leads to the death of dopamine cells in the brain, a finding by Yale researchers that could have implications for post-menopausal women. The cells can be regenerated if estrogen is administered within 10 days, but by 30 days, the cells appear to be permanently lost" said D. Eugene Redmond, Jr., professor of psychiatry and neurosurgery at Yale School of Medicine and director of the Neural Transplantation and Regeneration Program.

"Without estrogen, more than 30 percent of all the dopamine neurons disappeared in a major area of the brain that produces the neurotransmitter, dopamine".

"These observations show the essential role of estrogen in maintaining the integrity of the nigral dopamine system involved in muscle control and higher brain functions"

So if this is really the case for some who still are experiencing sides. What next?

I don’t even believe there is a way to test dopamine levels?

 

[Checkdis]

To add, I am going to try NAD therapy soon when I have some extra funds to throw around. I’ll report back and see how this helps.

 

[Mastodont]

Does anyone have insight as to how long does estradiol stay in the system, if generated through aromatization by a bolus dose of testosterone, if similar half life to oral estradiol, one could assume infrequent injections only help a day or two after injection, for those of us who have trouble aromatizing.

 

[JustPanicNoDisco]

Does anyone have insight as to how long does estradiol stay in the system, if generated through aromatization by a bolus dose of testosterone, if similar half life to oral estradiol, one could assume infrequent injections only help a day or two after injection, for those of us who have trouble aromatizing.

likely an extremely short half life, since the estrogen is not attached to an ester (like the orals or injectables).

 

[Mastodont]

likely an extremely short half life, since the estrogen is not attached to an ester (like the orals or injectables).

I dont think oral estradiol is esterified, but it makes sense that estradiol generated through aromatase is not sticking around longer than oral e2, and this would explain feeling good for example after injection of sustanon, for a couple of days, after that the two propionates have gone and the longer esthers dont produce estradiol at nearly the same rate.

 

[Mastodont]

So i got prescribed progynova 1mg, estradiol valerate, from what i gathered the half life is little over 24h, but there is conflicting information on what the steady levels with daily admin are supposed to be, please post your levels, no matter if taking 1mg or other doses, also interested if people are doing testosterone shots frequently when supplementing estradiol, one could presume very infrequent shots would make a difference in how you feel if the e2 levels are steady, meaning the T/E ratio flucuates, then again you might not notice it if both levels are sufficient?

Also wondering if there are any concerns for long term use of e valerate, like in 10 years, any metabolites that might have negative impact on a male.
Currently i could probably get away with conservative test dose that would not raise hematocrit or cause weight gain, by adding estradiol, just one pill made me feel like i was reborn.
Going with t only, i have to use infrequent shots that result in time span under supra levels, to aromatize at any decent rate.

I guess i might continue on eod enanthate for a while(which makes me feel like shit without adding e2), while also taking progynova daily, in a week a stedy state of estradiol should be measurable. Would supplementing with progynova have an effect on the aromatase action from the exogenous t, i would think not?

Also for guys taking daily e2, are you taking it am or pm?

Edit: One option is to take a bolus dose of T, and supplement e2 when the symptoms creep in as the aromatase action declines, this would probably only make sense for some long esther like nebido, where the chenge in levels is not rapid.

 

[Flexedup]

Reading this thread during my crashed estrogen state did nothing but induce severe anxiety and instill constant fear that actually prolonged my mental/emotional recovery. I do want to remind whoever is arriving here late that the OP stated that he has successfully recovered and all symptoms of low E subsided. I do not think it was appropriate to link or attribute an actual "presumed" suicide of an individual who struggle(s)(ed) with PFS, experiments with AI's and a slew of other problems/compounds to be linked to a men's health board that some of us resort to for comfort and assurance to endure through whichever treatments we are undergoing. I can tell you that it was proven that Eunuchs had much longer lives than those with a normal endocrine systems. The body has an amazing capability to heal and having that mind power alone, can make us overcome serious ailments.

 

[Mastodont]

I got some libido and better mood from the 1mg, but after taking another on the second day my anxiety was through the roof, did this experiment twice, trying a third day was out of question. I guess smaller doses could work, but not going that route for now, that is the smallest dose available, besides cutting these coated pills that were not designed to be divided. One notable thing was that after that first dose ejaculation force and volume increased, i have not been a shooter for a long time.

 

[Simpleplan15]

Crashed my e2 almost 3 years ago(i am off armidex i have been for years) i have been on trt for same time(250 mg of test e a week ed injections i have tried every 3.5 eod etc) nothing helped

My e2 sits at 72(e2 was same before)
Dht 141
Free t 605
Total t 2231

My symptoms are just lack of dopamine light headed feeling mentally spaced out

Like e2 is still crashed

I have run a full male hormone panel with my primary physician with everything in check


All these symptoms started after crash

Wanna take 1 mg of estro val injections ed for a month to wake those receptors up would that be too much

 

[Flexedup]

As surprising as this sounds, I figured out the "feeling crashed" feeling that lingers and I truly believe it has nothing to do with the estrogen. In my case it was the rise in prolactin that my estrogen caused when it rose back-up. That under-water, wired, unmotivated, dry sensation was resolved by getting my prolactin down a little using vitamin b6. It's like my brain blossomed again.

I will never touch an AI again.

 

[simeoni]

As surprising as this sounds, I figured out the "feeling crashed" feeling that lingers and I truly believe it has nothing to do with the estrogen. In my case it was the rise in prolactin that my estrogen caused when it rose back-up. That under-water, wired, unmotivated, dry sensation was resolved by getting my prolactin down a little using vitamin b6. It's like my brain blossomed again.

I will never touch an AI again

Was your prolactin over the reference range?