Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[JustPanicNoDisco]

@Coconutz did you have any erections issues prior to starting exogenous estradiol? I know some guys have reported ED while others just report low libido and feeling like shit. It's a wide spectrum.

From what I've read, it appears estrogen receptors (specifically, ER-alpha receptors) have some governance over the expression of androgen receptors, so without the former, the latter can definitely not work optimally. Potentially this is why guys report not "feeling" testosterone and other androgenics/anabolics when their estro signaling is impaired.

 

[Coconutz]

@Coconutz did you have any erections issues prior to starting exogenous estradiol? I know some guys have reported ED while others just report low libido and feeling like shit. It's a wide spectrum.

From what I've read, it appears estrogen receptors (specifically, ER-alpha receptors) have some governance over the expression of androgen receptors, so without the former, the latter can definitely not work optimally. Potentially this is why guys report not "feeling" testosterone and other androgenics/anabolics when their estro signaling is impaired.

I've always been able to get it up and keep it up, that's why I never really knew what the problem was at first. I'd even have an unhealthy HYPER High uncontrollable libido when I'd crash estrogen. Super anxious, super jealous and just stupid compulsive paranoid thoughts like everyone was out to get me. My erections are much much more full now. Orgasms way more sensitive, balls more full too and hang better. Little sore too. I kinda feel like I'm taking HCG. Now that I look back, I guess my erections have been about 80% compared to now.

I read somewhere about giving schizophrenic men estradiol injections. Kinda makes me wonder if a lot of those issues are low estrogen. Because i sure as shit thought I was losing my mind.

 

[Gman86]

I've always been able to get it up and keep it up, that's why I never really knew what the problem was at first. I'd even have an unhealthy HYPER High uncontrollable libido when I'd crash estrogen. Super anxious, super jealous and just stupid compulsive paranoid thoughts like everyone was out to get me. My erections are much much more full now. Orgasms way more sensitive, balls more full too and hang better. Little sore too. I kinda feel like I'm taking HCG. Now that I look back, I guess my erections have been about 80% compared to now.

I read somewhere about giving schizophrenic men estradiol injections. Kinda makes me wonder if a lot of those issues are low estrogen. Because i sure as shit thought I was losing my mind.

This is all so interesting. I always thought too high of E2 would cause the penis and scrotum to retract. So it’s interesting that taking exogenous E2 is doing the complete opposite.

Did taking oral E2 increase penile sensitivity, or just improve ur orgasms?

Do u get the oral E2 valerate prescribed? Was it covered by insurance (if prescribed obv)

Why do u think exogenous oral E2 is working for u and raising ur E2 with more test didn’t?

Any long term downsides to using oral E2 over injectable?

Back when u were testing ur E2, would it come back low? Or would it come back normal, yet u would still feel low E2 symptoms?

 

[Gman86]

For those of u suffering with low E2 symptoms, do u all have low E2 serum levels, or normal E2 levels on labs, but still have low E2 symptoms? Basically indicating issues at the estrogen receptor

 

[Lowe2guy]

What dose were you using and where were you applying it?

What was your TRT protocol when using the e2 cream?

Dosing 1mg every night before bed, on my inner arms. My current protocol is 150mg a week split into EOD injections but Im going to move to E5D to hopefully scew the ratio of T to E in favor of E of course without the use of the cream.This cream is seriously working though.My libido is now going up and I now have morning wood again. Never in a million years would I think estrogen would be the missing link. Crazy…

 

[Lowe2guy]

For those of u suffering with low E2 symptoms, do u all have low E2 serum levels, or normal E2 levels on labs, but still have low E2 symptoms? Basically indicating issues at the estrogen receptor

I had borderline “high” e2 on bloodwork but all low e2 symptoms although I cant get the sensitive estradiol test in Canada. Im guessing the standard test is grossly overestimating my e2 because it apparently cross reacts with CRP and I have elevated CRP.

 

[Bmac]

It's night and day supplementing estrogen. I can't believe I'm saying that lol. Care to share your protocol?

I think a lot of bodybuilders need to be warned not touch aromasin. It worked amazing in my 20s while bodybuilding and blasting a gram plus of test plus whatever else.. but It seems to permanently disable the aromatase enzyme, or close to it for years and years after discontinuation. If notpermanently. I literally took that shit for probably 5-6 years straight, and 12 years total off and on. I'm 40 now.

My sleeps been amazing, and what I thought was eczema that I've had for years is going away. Ive tried posting this on bodybuilding forums, and got completely flamed. Soooo. Fuck em. One day when they are in our shoes they'll understand.

Testosterone cypionate at 100mg a week split into two doses. My first experiment with oral e2 was 1mg daily for 2 months. Had stopped for about 4 months to see if any of my symptoms would return, which they did. I’m now taking .5mg daily and possibly trying a EoD dosing schedule as I’m looking for the lowest but effective dose for me. Just to clarify are you taking 2mg daily or is it 2mg total a week?

 

[Tommy5454]

Testosterone cypionate at 100mg a week split into two doses. My first experiment with oral e2 was 1mg daily for 2 months. Had stopped for about 4 months to see if any of my symptoms would return, which they did. I’m now taking .5mg daily and possibly trying a EoD dosing schedule as I’m looking for the lowest but effective dose for me. Just to clarify are you taking 2mg daily or is it 2mg total a week?

Hey, I tried to PM you but probably better here. @Coconutz @Bmac
I’ve been following your posts and I had been communicating with chroniclowe before he left the form a few months ago too. I took an Anastrazole For three weeks almost 2 years ago. It destroyed me. I have been on HCG for 9 months and I feel better but my bloodwork numbers will swing wildly and I will go from feeling good to feeling horrible again. Like others have said I will have a month or two where i can work out again hard, have drive at work, then another where i feel like shit. I feel like diet will impact me massively, ie a little chocolate or ibuprofen shuts down my aromatase again. I have done bloodwork monthly for 7 months now. One of the weird things I noticed is that I got gyno when my e2 dropped to the lowest it had been on HCG while taking a T pro-hormone. But I also felt best with very high T and high e2. Your thread on valerate seems to make sense in these contexts.

Can you help me? Chroniclowe did infrequent t injections to increase aromatase Activity. You have gone straight to valerate. What did you notice that made you go this way, how long did it take to see improvement? How long are you still improved and are you past the honeymoon phase? Any other info worth noting?

Thanks.

 

[MIP1950]

Hey, I tried to PM you but probably better here. @Coconutz @Bmac
I’ve been following your posts and I had been communicating with chroniclowe before he left the form a few months ago too. I took an Anastrazole For three weeks almost 2 years ago. It destroyed me. I have been on HCG for 9 months and I feel better but my bloodwork numbers will swing wildly and I will go from feeling good to feeling horrible again. Like others have said I will have a month or two where i can work out again hard, have drive at work, then another where i feel like shit. I feel like diet will impact me massively, ie a little chocolate or ibuprofen shuts down my aromatase again. I have done bloodwork monthly for 7 months now. One of the weird things I noticed is that I got gyno when my e2 dropped to the lowest it had been on HCG while taking a T pro-hormone. But I also felt best with very high T and high e2. Your thread on valerate seems to make sense in these contexts.

Can you help me? Chroniclowe did infrequent t injections to increase aromatase Activity. You have gone straight to valerate. What did you notice that made you go this way, how long did it take to see improvement? How long are you still improved and are you past the honeymoon phase? Any other info worth noting?

Thanks.

Ever try large weekly injections(200, 250 or 300 mg, either in one shot or split 2x weekly? Just a thought based on reading on another site. No expert, here, but, if the aromotase enzyme is functioning, though not efficiently, higher dosing of T, IMO, would kick it into gear. Perhaps simplistic, mechanistic analysis but it's the underlying principle for the management of cellular resistance to thyroid, as well as testosterone.

 

[Bmac]

Hey, I tried to PM you but probably better here. @Coconutz @Bmac
I’ve been following your posts and I had been communicating with chroniclowe before he left the form a few months ago too. I took an Anastrazole For three weeks almost 2 years ago. It destroyed me. I have been on HCG for 9 months and I feel better but my bloodwork numbers will swing wildly and I will go from feeling good to feeling horrible again. Like others have said I will have a month or two where i can work out again hard, have drive at work, then another where i feel like shit. I feel like diet will impact me massively, ie a little chocolate or ibuprofen shuts down my aromatase again. I have done bloodwork monthly for 7 months now. One of the weird things I noticed is that I got gyno when my e2 dropped to the lowest it had been on HCG while taking a T pro-hormone. But I also felt best with very high T and high e2. Your thread on valerate seems to make sense in these contexts.

Can you help me? Chroniclowe did infrequent t injections to increase aromatase Activity. You have gone straight to valerate. What did you notice that made you go this way, how long did it take to see improvement? How long are you still improved and are you past the honeymoon phase? Any other info worth noting?

Thanks.

I will say my decision to try estradiol valerate came after years of trying various trt protocols. I would try each different protocol for months to let everything stabilize. Which would let me get more accurate blood work and a better sense of how each protocol made me feel. I wanted to directly supplement with e2 to really see how elevated e2 made me feel and affect my body. I still feel good, especially physically. The benefits came on quickly. Roughly a week to notice better mobility and a week after that my libido increased significantly.

Now unfortunately I don’t know if I have anything else to share that might help your situation. I’m happy to share my anecdotal experience for others to read, but I’m not comfortable giving others recommendations for their health.

 

[Tommy5454]

I will say my decision to try estradiol valerate came after years of trying various trt protocols. I would try each different protocol for months to let everything stabilize. Which would let me get more accurate blood work and a better sense of how each protocol made me feel. I wanted to directly supplement with e2 to really see how elevated e2 made me feel and affect my body. I still feel good, especially physically. The benefits came on quickly. Roughly a week to notice better mobility and a week after that my libido increased significantly.

Now unfortunately I don’t know if I have anything else to share that might help your situation. I’m happy to share my anecdotal experience for others to read, but I’m not comfortable giving others recommendations for their health.

I really appreciate this insight. I see your dosing on the last page. Is that the same? Where are your e2 and T sitting on recent bloodwork?

 

[JA Battle]

I will say my decision to try estradiol valerate came after years of trying various trt protocols. I would try each different protocol for months to let everything stabilize. Which would let me get more accurate blood work and a better sense of how each protocol made me feel. I wanted to directly supplement with e2 to really see how elevated e2 made me feel and affect my body. I still feel good, especially physically. The benefits came on quickly. Roughly a week to notice better mobility and a week after that my libido increased significantly.

Now unfortunately I don’t know if I have anything else to share that might help your situation. I’m happy to share my anecdotal experience for others to read, but I’m not comfortable giving others recommendations for their health.

How much valerate do you choose to use?

 

[Bmac]

I really appreciate this insight. I see your dosing on the last page. Is that the same? Where are your e2 and T sitting on recent bloodwork?

My e2 was 58 pg/ml and my total T was 859 nd/ml, this was on 1mg of oral e2 valerate per day, I have lowered my dose to .5mg EoD. Test dose has stayed the same.

 

[Bmac]

How much valerate do you choose to use?

.5mg EoD, I originally stared at 1mg every day. While this provided benefits I did experience very oily skin and hair.

 

[Tommy5454]

My e2 was 58 pg/ml and my total T was 859 nd/ml, this was on 1mg of oral e2 valerate per day, I have lowered my dose to .5mg EoD. Test dose has stayed the same.

While on HCG I have T that varies from about 900 to 1200 and E that goes from 48 to 78 most recently. I still don’t have full symptom resolution and I have fall backs constantly. I am willing to believe that it isn’t all about what appears on bloodwork though and a new drug can change things.

Did you ever have high E, higher than now, on other treatments (like TRT alone) without the same benefits as valerate? Can you describe what those symptoms were like and what it was like without valerate but high E?

I’m just looking for a perspective, not guidance. I need to try something else, but on HCG my testes are creating massive amounts of E2 on their own, on top of what gets aromatized along the normal T>E route.

 

[Tommy5454]

I will say my decision to try estradiol valerate came after years of trying various trt protocols. I would try each different protocol for months to let everything stabilize. Which would let me get more accurate blood work and a better sense of how each protocol made me feel. I wanted to directly supplement with e2 to really see how elevated e2 made me feel and affect my body. I still feel good, especially physically. The benefits came on quickly. Roughly a week to notice better mobility and a week after that my libido increased significantly.

Now unfortunately I don’t know if I have anything else to share that might help your situation. I’m happy to share my anecdotal experience for others to read, but I’m not comfortable giving others recommendations for their health.

What other site? Can you direct me to that so I can research? Thanks.

 

[Tommy5454]

I was suffering from low e2 for years from abusing exemestane while bodybuilding. . I've been experimenting with injectable and oral estradiol valerate for the last 2 months
Holy shit. Thats was the missing piece. It's like a light just switched on in my brain. No more night sweats, libido waaaaaaay back. I dropped 10lbs of water weight in a week and am lean as I've been for a while. And get this! My minor gyno lumps are slowly going away. From taking ESTROGEN!!. I literally feel like I'm on cycle on my usual 200mg test E. My muscles are so full all the time, and all I've been doing for 6 months is cardio and yoga. Im still trying to find my perfect dose, as I feel I can use WAY less test now. I've kept my trt as high as 300 just to try to get more estradiol in my system. I'm not touching anything for a while. I feel too good to try to change anything right now.

I think yall should just find some estrogen and Give it a try. Its cheap and.nothing to lose at this point. It aint gonna hurt ya with such a short half life. 2mg oral EV for 200mg of test E works for me. Didn't take the injection long enough to let it build up in my blood to form a concrete opinion.

Hey Coconutz, what were your numbers and symptoms before valerate usage? Did you ever have high E2 before valerate without the same symptom improvements?

 

[JA Battle]

Dosing 1mg every night before bed, on my inner arms. My current protocol is 150mg a week split into EOD injections but Im going to move to E5D to hopefully scew the ratio of T to E in favor of E of course without the use of the cream.This cream is seriously working though.My libido is now going up and I now have morning wood again. Never in a million years would I think estrogen would be the missing link. Crazy…

How are things going with the cream? Still taking the same amount? What is the product you use?

 

[murrayhewitt]

Yup crazy anxiety 24/7 lol , I just deal with it unfortunately. Funny thing I forgot to mention finasteride fixed that as well super bizarre nobody believed I responded to Fin that way on forums.

I've sat here and read through this whole thread and your the first person I think has the exact same situation as me. I cannot get my e2 up regardless of what I try so I tried the Fin experiment also. Made me feel awesome. Raging libido, great workouts etc. I just kept getting scared because of the horror stories you read about e2. Clearly though we have DHT that overpowers e2 either at the number or at the receptor level. Super frustrating. I just want to make this work and feel normal. What dose of FIN were you taking 1 mg daily?

 

[Lowe2guy]

How are things going with the cream? Still taking the same amount? What is the product you use?

back to feeling like crap. The cream stopped working im not sure why. Libido is completely gone again. My joints ache even more now. I dont remember the name of it I’ll check when I get home it was off amazon though.