Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[nurselyfe]

nurselyfe why are you on trt if you were not hypogonadal before starting testosterone replacement?

What were your pre-trt levels? If your gonads can produce a decent amount of testosterone on their own, why dont you try the natural route and see how you feel.

For bodybuilding. I don't respond to HCG at all, and clomid and nolva make me significantly worse so that's definitely not an option. Why would my endogenous T make me feel any better if my blood work is perfect. Once again, I've ran 100mg with no AI before and felt incredible.

Ive came off testosterone with nolvadex and clomid before and felt great compared to now.

Ive ran 60, 80, 100, 120, and 140mg per week with no AI and felt great at every single dose. No difference in libido in any of those doses and definitely no hair loss and anything I have now. It's clearly a receptor issue. It's my body and I know how it is supposed to feel.

 

[at15]

For bodybuilding. I don't respond to HCG at all, and clomid and nolva make me significantly worse so that's definitely not an option. Why would my endogenous T make me feel any better if my blood work is perfect. Once again, I've ran 100mg with no AI before and felt incredible.

Ive came off testosterone with nolvadex and clomid before and felt great compared to now.

Ive ran 60, 80, 100, 120, and 140mg per week with no AI and felt great at every single dose. No difference in libido in any of those doses and definitely no hair loss and anything I have now. It's clearly a receptor issue. It's my body and I know how it is supposed to feel.

this "not responding to hcg" is very disturbing. are you 100% certain on this. this is another thing, there is no documented case of hcg desensitization in the medical literature. I would order on reliablerx 3 different brands of hcg. mix 3 vials, draw from a different one each time. increase your odds of intact hcg.

 

[nurselyfe]

this "not responding to hcg" is very disturbing. are you 100% certain on this. this is another thing, there is no documented case of hcg desensitization in the medical literature. I would order on reliablerx 3 different brands of hcg. mix 3 vials, draw from a different one each time. increase your odds of intact hcg.

I'm 1000% certain. I've tried 4 different vials, 3 different brands. Compounding pharmacy HCG 500iu x2 week. Novarel 500iu x2 per week, and then tried 1000iu x2 per week. Then even got Corion, tried 500iu x2 per week, then 1000iu x2 per week. None of these yielded any kind of result in terms of libido, increased testicle size and fullness, increased ejaculatory volume, well being, and definitely didn't get any estrogenic side effect. Might as well inject water.

 

[at15]

I'm 1000% certain. I've tried 4 different vials, 3 different brands. Compounding pharmacy HCG 500iu x2 week. Novarel 500iu x2 per week, and then tried 1000iu x2 per week. Then even got Corion, tried 500iu x2 per week, then 1000iu x2 per week. None of these yielded any kind of result in terms of libido, increased testicle size and fullness, increased ejaculatory volume, well being, and definitely didn't get any estrogenic side effect. Might as well inject water.

very mystifying man, i would be at my wits end. you should just come off cold turkey. you were not hypo-gonadal before trt. what do you have to lose at this point?

 

[nurselyfe]

very mystifying man, i would be at my wits end. you should just come off cold turkey. you were not hypo-gonadal before trt. what do you have to lose at this point?

A lot considering with a FT level of 24.5 (9-26) and an E2 of 35 (7-42) I have no libido, no morning erection, ED, dry mouth, dry skin, hair loss on entire body, dry hair, slow nail growth, no pumps, no gym performance or aggression. On the same protocol i've always felt amazing on and all symptoms emerged as soon as I over did it with the anastrazole. E2 is clearly not low and haven't used anastrazole since August.

HCG used to work for me in the past. But ever since I did that with the arimidex it doesn't work at all. Just further evidence that the ER has been functionally changed because estradiol is a key player in spermatogenssis. ERaKO mice were infertile.

Lastly, I've stated that my symptoms get worse when I increase estradiol. So, even if my testicles would work again, Dropping T thus lowering E2, then endogenous T coming back and increasing E2 would make me much worse. And at this point, considering how bad it is, I don't want to make anything worse because I am still able to function fine, still a straight A student, will be able to work, able to do things with friends and family, and most importantly able to sleep great.

I am not sure through what mechanism that coming off T wil improve symptoms but I certainly appreciate your concern and thoughtful suggestions

 

[pistolero]

It's my body and I know how it is supposed to feel.

Maybe you do and maybe you don't. You're 24? And you started injecting T at 20? The body goes through lots of changes as it ages even without artificially screwing with important stuff. You started messing with your hormones for no good reason at far too young. You refuse to stop messing with them no matter how much of a mess you create. You may never find out how you are "supposed to feel." There are consequences to our actions.

 

[nurselyfe]

Maybe you do and maybe you don't. You're 24? And you started injecting T at 20? The body goes through lots of changes as it ages even without artificially screwing with important stuff. You started messing with your hormones for no good reason at far too young. You refuse to stop messing with them no matter how much of a mess you create. You may never find out how you are "supposed to feel." There are consequences to our actions.

No I do. I have lived in it for 24 years. Not really sure who you are to say I do not? I feel bad for you if you don't know your body. Perhaps try keeping a detailed log on how you feel compared to your corresponding protocol and blood work.

Anyway, i am not supposed to feel like this off or on testosterone. I have came off TRT, and I know what that feels like. And it is NOT this. Most I noticed was lethargy and some mild strength decreases which is expected. Not arguing that I didn't need it at 20, but whether I did or did not need it, this should not be happening. Ill say it again, I felt fantastic, then a day later after taking too much Anastrazole symptoms started occurring.

Havent taken anastrazole in 5 months and I am currently on a protocol that has worked great for me in the past. I am not "messing" with anything.

Furthermore, I have never heard of TRT causing full body hair loss. You can argue that high or low E2 may cause ED and libido problems but once again I know by body. I have had incredible libido and erectile function at low, normal, or high E2. I have had libido on and off T. Never had hairloss any of these situations. No family history of MPB. Had no recession or shedding, then next day I started losing hair. Within 25 days I lost a chunk of hair. That is not gradual. The hairloss is diffuse on my entire head. Sides included. That is not MPB.

For someone to think we have discovered everything about the endocrine system, which is a lot more complicated than you can imagine, is plain ignorance. We just started using third generation AI in 5ari's in humans within the last 20 years.

 

[pistolero]

No I do. I have lived in it for 24 years.

OK, and that means what? Do you want to feel like you did at 8, 12, 15, 17? The majority of your 24 years has NOTHING to do with what you should feel like now. That's the point. It wouldn't be the same body it was even 5 years ago EVEN if you hadn't screwed with test or AIs. So, no, you really DON'T know what you're supposed to feel like.




For someone to think we have discovered everything about the endocrine system, which is a lot more complicated than you can imagine, is plain ignorance.

I'll be the first to say there is MUCH we still have to learn about ourselves. I am truly sorry for your troubles. Totally sucks for anyone to be miserable. Just seems to me like you refuse to want to take any advice given here. I am not unsympathetic even though I probably came off that way. Just trying point out that coming in here with all these unexplainable symptoms and trying to pound home "I'M 24 AND I KNOW...." is going to do nothing for your credibility. Most here are twice that age and up and have been through a lot. Again, not to discount your suffering, sounds horrible. But just step back and take a breath, everyone here is trying to help you.

.....................................

 

[pistolero]

"Not really sure who you are to say I do not?"

I'm just a tired little old man.

"I feel bad for you if you don't know your body. Perhaps try keeping a detailed log on how you feel compared to your corresponding protocol and blood work."

I know it pretty well. I'm 48. I haven't had my first shot yet. But yes, I will keep a detailed log on my protocol, how I feel in response, and lab results. I do understand there will be side effects, and some could possibly be pretty unpleasant, depending on how my individual system responds. Wish me luck.

 

[simeoni]

Well I understand that if you are convinced that anything that lowers or raises estrogen will make you worse, then you really do not want to take the natural route.

Im still interested in your past: Have I understood correctly that you had a healthy levels of testosterone and you decided to do a cycle? After that cycle you just kept on cruising with lower dosage of testosterone?

 

[at15]

I can't believe your doctor doesn't tell you to come off. I guarantee if 99% of other doctors heard your story. The first thing they would do is have you come off since there was no reason to go on in the first place. If someone is under 40 years old, the physician absolutely has to figure out if they can stimulate one's own system or they risk losing their medical license.

And i think we can be fairly certain at 24 years old you would comeback, now if this helps symptoms or not is another issue. But i doubt your going to convince a doctor to buy into the estrogen receptor desensitization theory. I truly believe this maybe your only shot at recovery and the longer you wait the chances go down as the years progress. Your 24 years old, give yourself one year off cold turkey and try to recover. I would throw away medical school and friends in a heartbeat if it meant not being impotent the rest of my life.

 

[simeoni]

I decided to update my own thread since I feel that Ive made improvements: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...nt-symptoms-of-low-dopamine&p=97545#post97545

 

[pistolero]

So, now your 30? In your update posted 2/31/18. Post 167 in this thread earlier this month you were 24. WTF? You don't know how old you are from one day to the next. No wonder your story doesn't make any sense. I think you need a kind of help that we can't give you. Please see a psychiatrist.

 

[lowe2sucks]

Do you have labs to indicate you have muscle wasting/muscle loss?

//There has to be something that happened it can't be in my head because there are also physical symptoms.//

Brain/body connection is extremely strong, have you heard of phantom or referred pain?

Don't you think its odd that the male case study who had the congenital insensitivity to estrogen didn't have any symptoms you're describing?

is the pics above good as evidence??? or do i need to do some extra labs to prove that i suffer from muscle wasting??
To pistolero
i just turned 22 on 31st of january.. in post 167 it was at least year ago honestly i just didnt want to say that i was 21 and on trt because most would just ignore all my posts probably.. so I said 24
and where did you get the info that im 30 years old??? i dont get it
post 167 is not ME!!!!
P.S sorry for exploding, didn't mean to

 

[pistolero]

Sorry, confused you with nurselyfe and simeoni.

 

[nurselyfe]

So, now your 30? In your update posted 2/31/18. Post 167 in this thread earlier this month you were 24. WTF? You don't know how old you are from one day to the next. No wonder your story doesn't make any sense. I think you need a kind of help that we can't give you. Please see a psychiatrist.

My story makes perfect sense, you just don't know how read. Saw a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Both agreed with me and just saw another endo. With my PCP, We're all now working on getting me to Baylor College of Medicine for genetic testing.

Ps. you have no place to refer people to MDs as you are not in healthcare or someone's doctor- please refrain from doing so.

 

[Vince Carter]

A couple of you appear to need some Estrogen testing, with that said, let's settle it down. Just because there's a reply and submit box doesn't mean you need to put something there.

 

[lowe2sucks]

how are you doing simeoni? can few estrogen crashes cause parkinson disease? I feel so bad since dhea crashed my estrogen I can't even function can't work cant concentrate agitated all the time.. I felt same way first year when I crashed my estrogen with arimidex.. whats going on?? symptoms of non existing dopamine... Did I caused myself to get parkinson with dhea??? I am very far from feeling normal and its been quite a time
I never had those symptoms from low estrogen I only got them when my estrogen was completely crashed but the lowest my e2 was on senstivie test was 7 so it wasnt 0 but I still got low dopamine symptoms and situation didn't improve. I've got same symptoms as simeoni stated in the beginning of the thread
https://bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2377-10-23

 

[nurselyfe]

how are you doing simeoni? can few estrogen crashes cause parkinson disease? I feel so bad since dhea crashed my estrogen I can't even function can't work cant concentrate agitated all the time.. I felt same way first year when I crashed my estrogen with arimidex.. whats going on?? symptoms of non existing dopamine... Did I caused myself to get parkinson with dhea??? I am very far from feeling normal and its been quite a time
I never had those symptoms from low estrogen I only got them when my estrogen was completely crashed but the lowest my e2 was on senstivie test was 7 so it wasnt 0 but I still got low dopamine symptoms and situation didn't improve. I've got same symptoms as simeoni stated in the beginning of the thread
https://bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2377-10-23

how is aimeoni supposed to know if estrogen crashes causes parkinson's .... or what is going on if he doesn't know himself

 

[lowe2sucks]

he stated that many of his symptoms are identical to early stages of parkinson non-motor symptoms (without tremors and so on) and we've seen study that states that estrogen deprivation causes dopamine producing neurons to die.. thats why I asked because these are serious things not to be taken lightly
but all of us (me, you and simeoni) have low dopamine symptoms lack of pleasure and low motivation and it doesnt fix itself on its own thats on top of low estrogen symptoms despite not having low estrogen anymore