Been on TRT w HCG since 2017-04. No benefits?

[Lonestar71]

Afternoon Guys!

Well, I'm now considering dropping TRT since I honestly feel no different when my T was rock bottom. My libido has been MIA since 2017-Jan. I was really hoping to get that back from TRT but nope!

I've been fishing through the threads on quitting TRT. Can anyone share some useful threads that pertain to this topic? Maybe some PROS / CONS?

As always, thanks!

 

[Vince Carter]

A restart isn't going to do much for besides ease the way in which you return your previous low T numbers. You could just quit cold turkey. Think of it as a gradual slow down than a sudden stop, that's my opinion though.

 

[Vince Carter]

are you low SHBG guy?

 

[Lonestar71]

I am......Last test SHBG was 18.

 

[HarryCat2]

I was 6 years on TRT and felt nothing the whole time. 12 weeks ago I tapered my dose to 40mg/wk for 6 weeks, felt no different, 6 weeks ago I stopped entirely, and feel no different. I'm going to go for labs the end of this week, I am hoping to be back where I started at about 250 total T.

I do recognize that there could be long term health consequences of low T so maybe I'll try it again at some low dose just to keep my level off rock bottom, but for now I'm taking a break.

 

[Lonestar71]

I thought I'd update this posting rather than starting a new thread.....

I had my first appointment with (Houston's) MenCenters, Dr. Russel H. Williams Urologist. Donated my full lab workup this AM. Will post results as soon as I get them. They are weaning me off the Cypionate and going with a Clomid/HCG protocol. (1) 50mg Clomid daily along with 1500IUs HCG @ 3x a week. We're going with this protocol for three months. He also mentioned a hybrid Clomid/HCG/Cypionate that he will fine tune if needed. He also prescribed wellbutrin in hopes to restore my libido.

Oh, and it appears my only benefit from TRT was stage 1 hypertension. I've never had HBP. I'm 46 YO.

Does anyone have experience with this center/protocol? Any thoughts?

As always, many thanks!

 

[Vince]

That's just way too high of dose of clomid, the normal dose is 12.5 mg every day, every other day, or even twice a week. Your estrogen is going to skyrocket

 

[Vince Carter]

That's just way too high of dose of clomid, the normal dose is 12.5 mg every day, every other day, or even twice a week. Your estrogen is going to skyrocket

Yeah...hello ESTROGEN.

 

[Vince Carter]

I am......Last test SHBG was 18.

Id bet no one gave you a real protocol to work within the SHBG. Not that that would have worked but you probably didn't have something that could work within that.

 

[Evilwhitey]

I thought I'd update this posting rather than starting a new thread.....

I had my first appointment with (Houston's) MenCenters, Dr. Russel H. Williams Urologist. Donated my full lab workup this AM. Will post results as soon as I get them. They are weaning me off the Cypionate and going with a Clomid/HCG protocol. (1) 50mg Clomid daily along with 1500IUs HCG @ 3x a week. We're going with this protocol for three months. He also mentioned a hybrid Clomid/HCG/Cypionate that he will fine tune if needed. He also prescribed wellbutrin in hopes to restore my libido.

Oh, and it appears my only benefit from TRT was stage 1 hypertension. I've never had HBP. I'm 46 YO.

Does anyone have experience with this center/protocol? Any thoughts?

As always, many thanks!

What was your protocol like?

 

[Tman]

Don't give up...try the gels. I used Fortesta initially 9 (now on shots) with much better results. I only switched to shots looking for stability. I am a low SHBG guy, and I had too much up and down in the same 24 hour period. I've been on the shots for two months, and I am considering switching back to the gel.

 

[lowe2sucks]

That's just way too high of dose of clomid, the normal dose is 12.5 mg every day, every other day, or even twice a week. Your estrogen is going to skyrocket

isn't clomid an actual estrogen blocker?

 

[sh1973]

It only blocks the action of estrogen at the hypothalamus. The zuclomiphene half of the drug basically is an estrogen and has a substantially longer half life than does the enclomiphene half of the drug. The problems arise with higher doses due to the estrogenic half of the drug basically overshadows the good half because the levels of zuclomiphene keep building. This is why smaller doses make the side effects more manageable. In theory in only takes a small amount of the enclomiphene half of the drug to do what's needed.

 

[Vince]

isn't clomid an actual estrogen blocker?

It can raise testosterone levels by blocking estrogen receptors that inhibit release of LH, the pituitary hormone that drive testosterone production.

 

[ERO]

I have lower SHBG than you, and I too feel nothing from TRT. Best way to describe it is that it feels like injecting water. Gels felt the same.

Daily injections are often tried with low SHBG guys and you might want to try that if you have not already. It did nothing for me, but you may be one of the lucky ones.

 

[Lonestar71]

Morning Guys! Here are my lab results taken on 2018-11-14

It appears I am no longer a low SHBG guy?!?!?!!?! So confusing.



Ordered Items

CBC With Differential/Platelet; Comp. Metabolic Panel (14); Urinalysis, Complete; Lipid Panel; Hepatic Function Panel (7); Thyroid

Panel With TSH; Vitamin B12 and Folate; FSH and LH; Hemoglobin A1c; Cortisol; Testosterone, Serum; Prolactin; Estradiol;

Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum; Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy; Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum; Venipuncture



TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB

CBC With Differential/Platelet

WBC 9.1 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 01

RBC 5.21 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 01

Hemoglobin 17.5 g/dL 13.0 - 17.7 01

Hematocrit 50.1 % 37.5 - 51.0 01

MCV 96 fL 79 - 97 01

MCH 33.6 High pg 26.6 - 33.0 01

MCHC 34.9 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 01

RDW 14.7 % 12.3 - 15.4 01

Platelets 260 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 01

Neutrophils 63 % Not Estab. 01

Lymphs 23 % Not Estab. 01

Monocytes 8 % Not Estab. 01

Eos 5 % Not Estab. 01

Basos 1 % Not Estab. 01

Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.8 x10E3/uL 1.4 - 7.0 01

Lymphs (Absolute) 2.1 x10E3/uL 0.7 - 3.1 01

Monocytes(Absolute) 0.7 x10E3/uL 0.1 - 0.9 01

Eos (Absolute) 0.5 High x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.4 01

Baso (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.2 01

Immature Granulocytes 0 % Not Estab. 01

Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.1 01



Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)

Glucose 93 mg/dL 65 - 99 01

BUN 11 mg/dL 6 - 24 01

Creatinine 1.01 mg/dL 0.76 - 1.27 01

eGFR If NonAfricn Am 89 mL/min/1.73 >59

eGFR If Africn Am 103 mL/min/1.73 >59





TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 11 9 - 20

Sodium 141 mmol/L 134 - 144 01

Potassium 4.7 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 01

Chloride 98 mmol/L 96 - 106 01

Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 mmol/L 20 - 29 01

Calcium 9.3 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 01

Protein, Total 6.5 g/dL 6.0 - 8.5 01

Albumin 4.2 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5 01

Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL 1.5 - 4.5

A/G Ratio 1.8 1.2 - 2.2

Bilirubin, Total 0.6 mg/dL 0.0 - 1.2 01

Alkaline Phosphatase 56 IU/L 39 - 117 01

AST (SGOT) 22 IU/L 0 - 40 01

ALT (SGPT) 24 IU/L 0 - 44 01



Urinalysis, Complete

Urinalysis Gross Exam 01

Specific Gravity 1.024 1.005 - 1.030 01

pH 7.5 5.0 - 7.5 01

Urine-Color Yellow Yellow 01

Appearance Clear Clear 01

WBC Esterase Trace Abnormal Negative 01

Protein Negative Negative/Trace 01

Glucose Negative Negative 01

Ketones Negative Negative 01

Occult Blood Negative Negative 01

Bilirubin Negative Negative 01

Urobilinogen,Semi-Qn 1.0 mg/dL 0.2 - 1.0 01

Nitrite, Urine Negative Negative 01

Microscopic Examination

See below: 01

Microscopic was indicated and was performed.

WBC 0-5 /hpf 0 - 5 01

RBC 0-2 /hpf 0 - 2 01

Epithelial Cells (non renal)

None seen /hpf 0 - 10 01

Mucus Threads Present Not Estab. 01

Bacteria None seen None seen/Few 01



Lipid Panel

Cholesterol, Total 211 High mg/dL 100 - 199 01

Triglycerides 148 mg/dL 0 - 149 01

HDL Cholesterol 43 mg/dL >39 01





TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB

VLDL Cholesterol Cal 30 mg/dL 5 - 40

LDL Cholesterol Calc 138 High mg/dL 0 - 99



Hepatic Function Panel (7)

Bilirubin, Direct 0.17 mg/dL 0.00 - 0.40 01



Thyroid Panel With TSH

TSH 1.020 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01

Thyroxine (T4) 8.1 ug/dL 4.5 - 12.0 01

T3 Uptake 36 % 24 - 39 01

Free Thyroxine Index 2.9 1.2 - 4.9



Vitamin B12 and Folate

Vitamin B12 443 pg/mL 232 - 1245 01

Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 7.1 ng/mL >3.0 01



Note: 01

A serum folate concentration of less than 3.1 ng/mL is

considered to represent clinical deficiency.



FSH and LH

LH 0.1 Low mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6 01

FSH <0.2 Low mIU/mL 1.5 - 12.4 01



Hemoglobin A1c

Hemoglobin A1c 5.2 % 4.8 - 5.6 01



Please Note: 01

Prediabetes: 5.7 - 6.4

Diabetes: >6.4

Glycemic control for adults with diabetes: <7.0



Cortisol 15.4 ug/dL 01

Cortisol AM 6.2 - 19.4

Cortisol PM 2.3 - 11.9



Testosterone, Serum 739 ng/dL 264 - 916 01

Adult male reference interval is based on a population of

healthy nonobese males (BMI <30) between 19 and 39 years old.

Travison, et.al. JCEM 2017,102;1161-1173. PMID: 28324103.



Prolactin 6.2 ng/mL 4.0 - 15.2 01



Estradiol 37.5 pg/mL 7.6 - 42.6 01

Roche ECLIA methodology



Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.5 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 01

Roche ECLIA methodology.

According to the American Urological Association, Serum PSA should





TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB



Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 35.4 ng/mL 30.0 - 100.0 01



Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 21.1 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9 01

 

[ERO]

Your SHBG went up a couple of points, but its still lower than optimal. Not trying to be a downer, but just having your SHBG go up a tiny bit wont really change anything.

If you went from say, an SHBG of 18 to a 30, that would be significant, but going from 18 to 21.1 is unlikely to leave you feeling any difference.

I am the same way, only lower - my SHBG would need to go up by like 300% in order to be at a good level.

 

[eli]

Your SHBG went up a couple of points, but its still lower than optimal. Not trying to be a downer, but just having your SHBG go up a tiny bit wont really change anything.

If you went from say, an SHBG of 18 to a 30, that would be significant, but going from 18 to 21.1 is unlikely to leave you feeling any difference.

I am the same way, only lower - my SHBG would need to go up by like 300% in order to be at a good level.

ERO have you tried transdermals ?

 

[ERO]

ERO have you tried transdermals ?

Yes, and sadly that feels like water as well. I have no idea what TRT feels like because I have never felt anything from it.

 

[Vince Carter]

Your SHBG went up a couple of points, but its still lower than optimal. Not trying to be a downer, but just having your SHBG go up a tiny bit wont really change anything.

If you went from say, an SHBG of 18 to a 30, that would be significant, but going from 18 to 21.1 is unlikely to leave you feeling any difference.

I am the same way, only lower - my SHBG would need to go up by like 300% in order to be at a good level.

I agree a swing of a couple of points can be just a daily up and down change and doesn't amount to anything that is significant.