Been on TRT w HCG since 2017-04. No benefits?

[GeauxBears]

Your T/E2 ratio is low, IMO (meaning E2 too high relative to T). I’ve found if that ratio isn’t finely tuned, it can really offset the subjective benefits of TRT (libido, sense of well being, energy, etc.), ESPECIALLY in a low SHBG guy.

It’s different for everyone, but I’ve found that with a T level similar to yours, I need to have E2 around 20-25 to feel good. Lower and I am irritable and have ED & libido issues; higher and I am emotional, flushed and bloated with libido issues.

For us low SHBG guys, E2 really is a challenge because while we do have a lot of free T, we also have a lot of free E2 as well. I’ve worked with Saya to get to a highly customized anastrozole dosage (0.07mg ED) to go along with my 30mg/day of T to dial it in perfectly.

Are you on HCG? I’ve found that I get the most libido under my current protocol about a day after my BIW HCG shot of 500ius.

This took a lot of time and focus on subjective symptoms to get right...let me know if you have questions.

 

[Lonestar71]

Morning and Happy New Year! I thought I would bump my thread instead of creating a new post/start over.

So, I've been off T since 28-Nov and taking HCG 3000 IUs/3x a week along with Clomid (25mg) @ 5 days a week.

In short, the little libido I had is now completely gone. No morning wood either? I'm also an emotional wreck. I want to get another blood draw this week before I consider jumping back on the T wagon.

Is this normal or to be expected? Suggestions?

Thanks for the input.

 

[BigBamBoo]

At 9000 IU of HCG a week I would guess your E2 is pretty high. That could make you fell bad. And from what I read about clomid, some guys feel like crap on it. So...maybe you are one of those guys as well.

I stopped TRT coming on 7 weeks now. I did it cold turkey. No crash, no sides, and feel WAY better than I did the entire time on TRT.

I understand everyone is different, but my way of thinking is the sooner you get all that stuff out of your system, the sooner you will recover.
Just keep focused on getting through it. If you have the mental fortitude, it should not be an issue.

Good luck to you. Hope you feel better.

Happy New Year.

 

[Gman86]

Ya definitely no mystery why you lost your libido completely. 9.000iu’s of HCG per week???? That’s insane. Plus, why do they have you on HCG and clomid together? That makes no sense to me. HCG is suppressive. Yes, it stimulates the Leydig cells in the testicles, but it shuts down your HPTA. It shuts down your endogenous LH and FSH production. Clomid, on the other hand, stimulates your pituitary to produce LH and FSH. Telling your pituitary to shut down, and to also be stimulated by clomid makes no sense. You should only be on one or the other.

If you want to be on HCG monotherapy, I would do around 2,000iu per week. When I was using that dose, by total testosterone came back at 1200. If you want to be on clomid monotherapy, I would start with 12.5mg ED. I was on clomid monotherapy at 50mg/ day and my total testosterone came back at 1500, but my SHBG was through the roof and I felt suicidal. I am doing much better on testosterone and HCG together.

 

[Lonestar71]

Ya definitely no mystery why you lost your libido completely. 9.000iu’s of HCG per week???? That’s insane. Plus, why do they have you on HCG and clomid together? That makes no sense to me. HCG is suppressive. Yes, it stimulates the Leydig cells in the testicles, but it shuts down your HPTA. It shuts down your endogenous LH and FSH production. Clomid, on the other hand, stimulates your pituitary to produce LH and FSH. Telling your pituitary to shut down, and to also be stimulated by clomid makes no sense. You should only be on one or the other.

If you want to be on HCG monotherapy, I would do around 2,000iu per week. When I was using that dose, by total testosterone came back at 1200. If you want to be on clomid monotherapy, I would start with 12.5mg ED. I was on clomid monotherapy at 50mg/ day and my total testosterone came back at 1500, but my SHBG was through the roof and I felt suicidal. I am doing much better on testosterone and HCG together.

Many thanks for all the input. I'm giving TRT one last shot but will be going through DEFY.

 

[Gman86]

Many thanks for all the input. I'm giving TRT one last shot but will be going through DEFY.

Smart choice in both respects. Defy has exceeded my expectations. I literally couldn’t be happier with them as a TRT provider. Just wish I would of found them sooner.

And if this is your last shot, you want to make sure you do it right. Just start off with testosterone alone. Nothing else. And start off at a low dose. 80-100mg/ week. And inject EOD, or E3.5D if EOD is too frequent. Then get labs done in 6 weeks, and see where your numbers are, and how you feel. Increase dose slightly if needed, and then get labs done in another 6-8 weeks. Just keep repeating this cycle until you hit a spot where you feel better. If you start low, and go slow, you will do just fine. If you start at too high of a dose, or start with too many compounds, or make big adjustments, or make adjustments too frequently, you’re setting yourself up for failure. So if this is the last time you’re giving TRT a chance, make sure you do it the right way. Testosterone only to start, and at a very low dose. You always want to start low and titrate up. You never want to start too high, and have to lower your dose.

 

[Systemlord]

Many thanks for all the input. I'm giving TRT one last shot but will be going through DEFY.

Daily injections is you best chance at lowering estrogen and getting testosterone higher in relation to estrogen, it could also lessen the need for an AI. I felt best on daily injections, SHBG is 22 and have always had problems with estrogen.

I feel much better taking 1/10 aromasin vs anastrozole, I feel terrible on anastrozole.

 

[Gman86]

Daily injections is you best chance at lowering estrogen and getting testosterone higher in relation to estrogen, it could also lessen the need for an AI. I felt best on daily injections, SHBG is 22 and have always had problems with estrogen.

I feel much better taking 1/10 aromasin vs anastrozole, I feel terrible on anastrozole.

How often do you take the 1/10 dose of aromasin? And how did you get it down to that low of a dose, dissolving it in alcohol?

 

[Systemlord]

How often do you take the 1/10 dose of aromasin? And how did you get it down to that low of a dose, dissolving it in alcohol?

I take it once weekly, I'm going to attempt 1/20th pieces and do twice weekly.

I use a pill cutter and one of those old fashioned thin razor blade that slide out of the cartridge. These skills were learned when I was withdrawing off of 30 year Klonopin use.

I try my best to keep consistent sizes, they look like crumbs.

 

[Lonestar71]

Your T/E2 ratio is low, IMO (meaning E2 too high relative to T). I’ve found if that ratio isn’t finely tuned, it can really offset the subjective benefits of TRT (libido, sense of well being, energy, etc.), ESPECIALLY in a low SHBG guy.

It’s different for everyone, but I’ve found that with a T level similar to yours, I need to have E2 around 20-25 to feel good. Lower and I am irritable and have ED & libido issues; higher and I am emotional, flushed and bloated with libido issues.

For us low SHBG guys, E2 really is a challenge because while we do have a lot of free T, we also have a lot of free E2 as well. I’ve worked with Saya to get to a highly customized anastrozole dosage (0.07mg ED) to go along with my 30mg/day of T to dial it in perfectly.

Are you on HCG? I’ve found that I get the most libido under my current protocol about a day after my BIW HCG shot of 500ius.

This took a lot of time and focus on subjective symptoms to get right...let me know if you have questions.

Thanks GB! Would you mind sharing your protocol and yes, I am currently on HCG. Thanks again!

 

[trt reznor]

You’re taking seriously high doses of clomid and hCG. It’s no surprise you feel bad on this protocol, your E2 is likely sky high.