My daily Testosterone Propionate diary

[JV63]

what signs you use to decide if you need to take an AI?

The best sign would be the sensitive e2 test on your labs showing a value higher than desired.

 

[Tom Larabee]

We continued my AI at .25mg EOD because I've got a long history of over converting and...I'm having some problems with this switch @ 10 days in to it. Im reaching out to Jill @ Defy for advice before I post details about it but its the kind of problem if doesn't get fixed, right away, I'm going to abandon Propionate. Too coincidental the timing here with the switch to Prop and this new very bothersome problem.

Hope you are able to get it fixed quickly. I am sure Jill will reach out and solve it if able to. I am following this since I am on Test E daily and while it seems to be helping get the E down, I am still wondering if Test P will do it even better. Labs are due now and I will see once we have those.

 

[Zooka15]

What is the cost of prop vs cyp?

 

[Vince Carter]

What is the cost of prop vs cyp?

I replied to your PM

 

[Vince Carter]

So here's the update:
10 days in and this is just "OK", at best, I don't feel better. It appears that I'm suffering thru a bout of carpal tunnel like symptoms that may be water retention. Nurse and Dr advise me that could be an IGF1 spike. This would coincide with my previous ~45 day experimentation with HGH Secretetagogues/peptides GHRP 2/6 and 1295 w/DAC, I stopped use after waking at night in pain, this exact same hand/forearm numb/tingly/pain. I was leaning on water retention before the IGF1 was brought up in discussion as I have some midsection bloat though I have (unintentionally) dropped ~2lbs since the change.

The first few days I was noticeably less tolerable of my GF's...nuanced behaviors...guys you know what I'm talking about.

I don't like shooting .5mL of oil though it is not intolerable at all, and I'm not experiencing any pain on injection that Propionate may be known for.

Prop costs more than Cyp, a 10mL supply costs less than Cyp, yes, but the vial strength @ 50mg/mL means I'm using A LOT more per day for the same mg dose. Notice Cyp I was shooting .14mL/28mg/D, but with Prop I'm shooting .5mL/25mg/D...you go thru 10mL's rather quickly that way so in a months time or whatever its significantly more expensive than Cyp.

So far the verdict: not worth it as it stands with the side effect, and then the cost.

 

[miked123]

It appears that I'm suffering thru a bout of carpal tunnel like symptoms that may be water retention. Nurse and Dr advise me that could be an IGF1 spike. This would coincide with my previous ~45 day experimentation with HGH Secretetagogues/peptides GHRP 2/6 and 1295 w/DAC, I stopped use after waking at night in pain, this exact same hand/forearm numb/tingly/pain. I was leaning on water retention before the IGF1 was brought up in discussion as I have some midsection bloat though I have (unintentionally) dropped ~2lbs since the change.

Sorry to hear your experiment is not working out. This was my experience with Prop too, crazy paraesthesia that only got worse and it made sleep nearly impossible. The prop I used was underground. Tried 2 different experiments with 2 different brands, 175mg per week and 105mg per week respectively, and both produced the symptoms. I experienced intense water retention as well, which is odd as I had always heard the opposite about Prop.

Will you be going back to Cyp or are you planning on giving Prop a few more days?

 

[Vince Carter]

The Prop experiment is over, Defy is taking the unused vials back and I'm returning to Cypionate.

Yesterday the CTS was pretty bad even during the day, overnight it was worse to the point of becoming angry about it and being up half the night in pain.

No way I could continue this and/or ride it out and hope it subsided.

 

[Tom Larabee]

The Prop experiment is over, Defy is taking the unused vials back and I'm returning to Cypionate.

Yesterday the CTS was pretty bad even during the day, overnight it was worse to the point of becoming angry about it and being up half the night in pain.

No way I could continue this and/or ride it out and hope it subsided.

Will you still be doing daily Cyp?

I hope your CTS ends quickly given the short half life of Prop.

 

[Vince Carter]

Yeah I'll go right back to 28mg/D Cyp where I was before.

I was hovering around water retention but my body weight was actually down 2lbs so I steered away from water retention as the thing.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

How could using a different ester of testosterone cause paresthesia or nerve compression? I do know that those are symptoms of GH use (and possibly other peptides as well) but I think it's strange that any ester of any androgen would have that effect.

 

[Vince]

VC, thanks for telling us about your trials and errors with Prop experiment. This is one thread I was very interested in.

 

[Vince Carter]

with no tests Dr Saya remarked that it could be prompting an IGF1 spike, water retention wasnt much of a theory on my part, and this does mimic almost exactly my experiments with GH Peptides. I thought there was interesting reading here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...rome..69i57.4255j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Smetry]

I switched from 8 Months using Cyp and feeling Literally nothing , Defy put me on Propionate for 50mg EOD and so far i got the fourth injection and feeling literally nothing also im very frustrated and don really know what to do next

 

[Vince Carter]

Started back on 28mg/D Cyp today.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Thanks for logging your experience VC. I’ve been on Test prop for a little over a year, and I’ll make the same comment here that I think I made elsewhere, which is that for me at least, the dosages being discussed here are fairly astronomical. I tried dosages like that, but for whatever reason, I feel better at a dosage of 10-12 per day which puts my blood levels in the 600-800 range. So for anyone contemplating trying prop or daily injections I would at least trial lower dosages and see if you are someone that responds well to them. I tried higher dosages and EOD and E3D injections but a small amount every day seems to be best for me for now.

 

[Vince Carter]

I certainly considered that it was too much and actually, what I used daily was less than was prescribed by a little bit. But then I gauged it by other factors...did I feel better? nope. Was I hornier? nope. It was otherwise no different than Cyp for me. I could have thought about riding it out or adjusting doses but that carpal tunnel like symptom was makin me miserable and just wasn't worth it in any other way.

 

[Vince Carter]

little over two weeks back on Cyp @ 28mg/D and the Carpal Tunnel like symptoms have receded quite a bit, is no longer waking me up at night, in pain, but numb/tingly fingers persist.

 

[BillyJ03z]

little over two weeks back on Cyp @ 28mg/D and the Carpal Tunnel like symptoms have receded quite a bit, is no longer waking me up at night, in pain, but numb/tingly fingers persist.

I was just reading over your comments on your Prop experiment and the sides you experienced with carpal tunnel, tingling, numbness in arms/hands... I just started on Test Prop @ 25mg ed SQ on June 28, 18... I too am experiencing tingling, numbness in arms, my elbows are soar/achy, I especially have experienced waking up at night with my arms feeling asleep/tingling/prickly... I intensely experienced all this the first 3 weeks but it has since subsided.. the only thing that really lingers is the sore elbows.. It's not like a dried out low e2 soreness as it doesn't hurt when lifting, it's like annoying sharp achy soreness when I'm doing random things like reaching for a coffee cup, etc... I also started HCG at roughly the same time (about 3 weeks prior) and I attributed the soreness, numbness, tingling to the HCG increasing GH as I have used Test Prop at a lot higher dosages many years ago when I had a few cycles and I never had any side effects like these.. Anyway, like I said these issues seem to be subsiding other than the sore elbows at this point, and I have stopped the HCG as I feel I wasn't getting any benefit and it seemed to kill my libido...

 

[madman]

I was just reading over your comments on your Prop experiment and the sides you experienced with carpal tunnel, tingling, numbness in arms/hands... I just started on Test Prop @ 25mg ed SQ on June 28, 18... I too am experiencing tingling, numbness in arms, my elbows are soar/achy, I especially have experienced waking up at night with my arms feeling asleep/tingling/prickly... I intensely experienced all this the first 3 weeks but it has since subsided.. the only thing that really lingers is the sore elbows.. It's not like a dried out low e2 soreness as it doesn't hurt when lifting, it's like annoying sharp achy soreness when I'm doing random things like reaching for a coffee cup, etc... I also started HCG at roughly the same time (about 3 weeks prior) and I attributed the soreness, numbness, tingling to the HCG increasing GH as I have used Test Prop at a lot higher dosages many years ago when I had a few cycles and I never had any side effects like these.. Anyway, like I said these issues seem to be subsiding other than the sore elbows at this point, and I have stopped the HCG as I feel I wasn't getting any benefit and it seemed to kill my libido...

25mg prop daily is a high weekly dose of testosterone (175mg/week).....especially if one has low SHBG.

100mg cypionate=70mg active testosterone.....so if one were injecting 25mg cypionate daily (175mg/week) that would be 122.5mg testosterone/week minus the ester

100mg propionate=83mg active testosterone.....you are injecting 25mg propionate daily (175mg/week) that is 145.2mg testosterone/week minus the ester



200mg cypionate/week is 140mg testosterone minus the ester.....175mg propionate/week is 145.2mg testosterone minus the ester

You are basically injecting the equivalent of 200mg cypionate a week.....very high dose for trt and god forbid one has low SHBG as FT will be through the roof!

 

[Vince Carter]

I know now the dose was way too high but I'd never try it again