What dose for me?

[Verdilo]

And for that matter Dostinex is very strong stuff and can **** with dopamine and other neurotransmitters as well. That could be the reason you feel like shit as well..

Thats why i took only 1/4 tablets and it dropped my prolactin from 26 to 8, very strong stuff. When took 1/2 before it dropped from 25 to 4 and i never felt that bad my entire life. I just couldnt move. Sitting on chair was too tiring, my eyes were closing and have to sleep for 1-2 hours to get some energy for living. With some days and time it went back to normal levels.

 

[Verdilo]

My aromatase is insane... Still on 2x70 mg protocol. Slowly ending my 4th week. Maybe at week nr 5 i am gonna do blood work for total and free testosterone? Maybe wait a little bit longer?

This is my blood work and look how much i am aromatasing, it was about 4 days between both results:

18.12.2017:

Estradiol - 37.49 pg/ml [7.62 - 42.60]
Prolactin - 13.90 ng/ml [4.04 - 15.20]

22.12.2017:

Estradiol - 97.01 pg/ml [7.62 - 42.60]
Prolactin - 25.59 ng/ml [4.04 - 15.20]

Blood work on 18 december was done just before my first 70 mg injection in this week and blood work on 22 december was after my second injection. Another injection will be in next week.

I also did glucose, was curious:

glucose 79.5 mg/dl [74.0 - 106.0]

 

[Vince Carter]

You're just beating yourself to death here, labs every other day, there's no stability in your protocol, you're shotgunning different AI's based on this/that/the other, this entire thread should be the prototype of what not to do in TRT. They'd eat you up over at PeakT forum they love this seat of the pants appraoch to TRT.

You wonder why you're failing out.

 

[Systemlord]

Oh my god dude you need to stop this madness of doing labs in this fashion, you make a protocol change and do labs 6 weeks later. It take this long for your bloods to stabilize, it's like trying to eat a turkey long before it's fully cooked. You're never going to succeed like this and eventually you'll get it.

 

[Verdilo]

Thanks for advices. I am a beginner and dont know a good doctor even though i was looking for a looong time so i am trying by my self and its normal that i am failing, its a new world for me, its not that easy on your own, without anyone who know about it much more than me.

Well, i am keeping my self on the same protocol, without changing anything. In a few days i will be in my 5th week of 2x70mg e3.5d.

I just wonder why i should do nothing with my e2 and prolactin high levels during this time of stabilize? With my aromatase and doing nothing i would end after 6 weeks (without arimidex and dostinex) with a big gyno. My estradiol would be probably much more higher than 100++ and prolactin same. I should just wait and get boobs?

 

[Verdilo]

I am currently ending my 6th week on trt protocol 2x70mg every 3.5 day. Feel no improvements at all. Tomorrow i am doing blood work and was wondering what i should check?

This is my list:

Test
Free Test
Estradiol
Prolactin
DHT
DHEA

Anything else i should add?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Systemlord]

I think you dosages are too high and infrequent enough based off your low SHBG. You need to lower your dosage and inject EOD, start injecting 20mg EOD. That's my protocol and all with no AI.

 

[Verdilo]

Thank You very much for help Systemlord. This is what i checked today after my 6 week trt journey:

Total Test
Free Test
Estradiol
Prolactin
SHBG
DHEA

Wanted to check DHT also because i never did it in my life but it was too much for me. (270$ for DHT only)

So starting today i will go on 20 mg EOD as You sad. Also i will start soon working with doctor as my family know someone who is maybe good at this things, we will see.

Last question. As EOD is more frequent injection, what is the smallest possible needle to inject on trt? Currently using 23G (0.60x30) and it will be too painful for me to inject with this size EOD i guess...

 

[HealthMan]

Thank You very much for help Systemlord. This is what i checked today after my 6 week trt journey:

Total Test
Free Test
Estradiol
Prolactin
SHBG
DHEA

Wanted to check DHT also because i never did it in my life but it was too much for me. (270$ for DHT only)

So starting today i will go on 20 mg EOD as You sad. Also i will start soon working with doctor as my family know someone who is maybe good at this things, we will see.

Last question. As EOD is more frequent injection, what is the smallest possible needle to inject on trt? Currently using 23G (0.60x30) and it will be too painful for me to inject with this size EOD i guess...

I currently use 27G 1/2 inch shallow IM. But i used as small as 30G 1/2 and 5/16 (for subq). No need to use a 23G.

 

[Verdilo]

Here in Poland i got 27 g but its pretty short to be honest - 0,4 x 12. Will it be enough?

 

[HealthMan]

Here in Poland i got 27 g but its pretty short to be honest - 0,4 x 12. Will it be enough?

For shallow IM half a inch (approx 1.25cm) is appropriate if you are lean enough. Or you can try subq which doesn’t work well for me but for some people works great.

 

[Systemlord]

I use 27 gauge 1/2 syringes and inject in my shoulders since I got plenty of muscle low fat there, not sure what measurement you're using. We low SHBG guys tend to have higher FT than most, higher FT means higher E2 unless you're one of those lucky guys who clears out most of his E2 quickly.

 

[Verdilo]

Thanks for replies and help.

Well, i guess i will stick to what got now, 23g (0,6 mm x 30 mm). Maybe it wont be that painful for EOD injections... Will see.

I got results from my blood work which i did today. List is not full, for the rest i will have to wait for about 1-2 weeks.

Total T: 8.87 ng/ml [2.80 - 8.80]
Estradiol: 70 pg/ml [7.63 - 42.60]
Prolactin: 17.20 ng/ml [4.04 - 15.20]

If i got 8.87 with 2x70 mg protocol after 6 weeks so maybe i should try change to EOD but 30 mg? It will be still reduced to 120 mg/week...

And i shouldnt use any AI for my very high estradiol or prolactin?

 

[Systemlord]

What you need to understand is when you inject more frequenty your levels don't have much time to drop before you next injection injecting EOD, that's where I ran into problems. You need to start out lower otherwise in 6 weeks little will have changed and you already contemplating giving up. Start at 20mg EOD, you can also increase it at a later date.

 

[Verdilo]

To be honest i didnt see your reply and 2 days ago did 30 mg injection thinking thats not a big deal but if You are telling me its better to start with 20 mg EOD, i will trust someone who knows much more about it. Lets see how this will go for me.

Thank You once again for helping me in my journey. Love this forum.

 

[Verdilo]

I dont understand this.

Started 100mg/week procotol - first 1-4 days starting to feel a little bit better and then all went down and felt nothing
Started 2x70mg e3.5d - first 1-4 days starting to feel a little bit better and then all went down and felt nothing
Now starting 20 mg eod - first 1-4 days starting to feel a little bit better and now again its all going down and i am feeling like a crap...

Ofcourse i wont stop this 20 mg eod protocol and will continue for 6 weeks but probably know how its going to end...

Same situations in the past i got with hcg monotherapy and clomid - first 1-6 days felt a little bit better and then everything went down again.

 

[Verdilo]

Well, i found something new which i didnt suspect, checked again my thyroid and results are bad. Its something new because i checked my thyroid year ago, then few months ago when was in hospital and it was always ok. Could it be that trt is affecting my thyroid or i should look somewhere else?

Results:

TSH 4.68 * [0.27 - 4.20]
FT3 3.52 pg/ml [2.00 - 4.40]
FT4 1.04 ng/dl [0.90 - 1.70]
anty-TG 10.00 [4.50 - 115.00]
anty-TPO 13.77 [0.00 - 35.00]

Estradiol - 70 pg/ml [7.63 - 42.60]
Prolactin - 24.16 ng/ml [4.04 - 15.20]

Any thoughts?

And another question, could it be because of my thyroid that i am not feeling better on trt?

 

[Verdilo]

In the next week i am going to a new doctor in case of my thyroid. Its something new for me as in the past my thyroid results were always ok. Should i do blood work for something more before i will meet with him?

Also, can thyroid block my trt and this is maybe why i couldnt get anything good from testosterone?

 

[CoastWatcher]

In the next week i am going to a new doctor in case of my thyroid. Its something new for me as in the past my thyroid results were always ok. Should i do blood work for something more before i will meet with him?

Also, can thyroid block my trt and this is maybe why i couldnt get anything good from testosterone?

If you suspect a thyroid issue it would be wise to run TSH, ft3, ft4, and both antibody panels (rt3 is very important as well, but moe expensive) so as to have them when you meet with your doctor. Thyroid issues certainly impact one's efforts to deal with hypogonadism.

 

[Vince Carter]

With your Thyroid you really need to be evaluated for what is called Hashi's or Hashimoto's disease as the two antibodies are showing something when they should be a relative zero. Im curuious if that's causing your TSH to be so high as your FT3 the active thyroid hormone really isn't bad, less than optimal perhaps but it's not bad, esp given the FT4 is poor.