What is the testosterone dose for muscle gain?

[Josh Randall]

I have noticed the difference between 90 mg and 110 mg once per week. My energy is much better when dose is higher. So, you noticed more strength and size? My libido has been great, but I’m not sure I want it to be any higher. How did the higher dose impact size, strength and libido?

Size and strength definitely went up. Can't really put a number on it but weight used on all exercises increased, everything felt lighter definitely had more energy in the gym. My whole life I kept workouts to one hour, on the higher dose I just wanted to keep training going for an hour and 15 sometimes an hour and a half workouts
As far as libido I never had any problems in that department with ED or anything like that. I didn't see any major difference while on the higher dose, had good erections, good morning wood which everyone seems to be concerned with

 

[AH2261]

Hi

UOTE=Gene Devine;86997]30 mg injected twice a week is only going to suppress HPTA and not provide enough supplementation for you to see any benefit from TRT whatsoever.

At the very least 50 mg twice weekly would serve you much better and healthier as well.[/QUOTE]


Hi gene..new to site and tried to private message you, but had trouble finding option. Could you message me when you have a moment..assuming that's an option on the site.

 

[madman]

Interesting.I'm the same age and hive toyed with trying this. Did you experience any side effects or problem? I do 100 mg weekly. Results have been good, but hard not to consider pushing it a bit.

Also remember when one uses higher doses of testosterone to accelerate the rate at which one attains increases in muscle fiber (actin/myosin) depending on the degree of muscle gain beyond what one could naturally attain due to genetics one would than require higher testosterone levels to maintain those gains permanently hence one could apply the blast/cruise analogy but for a majority that are using/abusing testosterone/aas for the sole purpose of increased muscle/strength gains higher cruise doses (more than average trt dose 100mg/week) are usually required if one has gained a significant amount of muscle. The main reason aside from health reasons (giving the body a break from supra-physiological levels of testosterone) when cycling is that cycling allows on to continue to make/attain gains beyond ones natural genetic potential (of course with implementing a proper pct protocol), those that choose not to cycle due to the ups/downs of cycling/coming off tend to either blast/cruise (eliminating post cycle pct) or stay on long term without coming off.

 

[Milad Zadeh]

The first time I was placed on TRT my protocol was 200mg of test + 1500IU HCG once a week. I was consuming 6 meals a day and worked out 5 days a week. Managed to go from 155lbs to 189lbs in 6 months. It was absolutely incredible. All muscle and no fat gains, I was having my body fat % measured every month.
This time around I’m on 80mg test TWICE a week and 500IU HCG TWICE a week and have gone from 155lbs to 170lbs in 3 months. Will definitely look into increasing my dosage during my next consult.

 

[S1W]

125 mg per week was found to make significant muscle gains in young men
Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.

I wonder if injection frequency has any effects at this dose. Would less frequent doses that result in higher peaks that are supraphysiologic for a day or two have a different effect than say ED or EOD injection protocols where the peaks are lower? Assuming the same 125mg weekly dosage, in one injection frequency better than another when it comes to gains?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Good question. No one has done a study measuring lean body mass using twice per week versus once per week dosing. My gut tells me that what matters is the "area under the curve" in T blood levels and not the "peak concentration".

 

[Systemlord]

I wonder if injection frequency has any effects at this dose. Would less frequent doses that result in higher peaks that are supraphysiologic for a day or two have a different effect than say ED or EOD injection protocols where the peaks are lower? Assuming the same 125mg weekly dosage, in one injection frequency better than another when it comes to gains?

EOD or ED dosing produces virtually static levels with the very little fluctuations. You need to decrease the dosage a little when moving injections closer together.

 

[S1W]

My gut tells me that what matters is the "area under the curve" in T blood levels and not the "peak concentration".

Thanks for your response, Nelson. Could you please clarify what you mean by that statement? I'm not sure that I follow. Of course I know you mentioned that it's just your gut feeling, but I'm certainly interested in your opinions.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Weekly injections have larger peaks (Cmax) than injections every two weeks (split dose). However, the total drug coverage (area under the curve or AUC) may be the same using either regimen. Does 125 mg once per week work better for muscle than 62.5 mg twice per week? No one knows. We have no data.

 

[BenM]

Personally, to answer that question I'd refer to a podcast I heard recently with Broderick Chavez (a sports performance specialist who specialises in enhanced athletes). He suggested that it's the levels over time that matter, for an extreme example if two people each had a bottle of 100 pills of an AAS (say Stanozolol) - one guy takes the 100 in one hit, the other takes 1 per day for 100 days, who is going to see the biggest gains?

Assuming your average circulating test over time is the same, I think logically a similar thing would apply to injection frequency. Higher peaks and lower troughs potentially means less gains than keeping levels more stable, there must come a point where all the inputs (training/available calories/hormonal milieu in the body) can only produce a certain amount of muscle protein synthesis, so those higher peaks are going to waste and the lower troughs result in less MPS. It's the same as setting a calorie surplus for bulking, if you eat at a 20% surplus, you'll probably gain as much muscle as your body can make, if you increase that to 30% or 40% you may gain more weight but it probably won't be lean mass!

 

[arizonajack]

I'm 48 yo, just found out I have low T, and based on symptoms, I'm guessing it's been low for the last ten years. I lift regularly and am not able to add muscle, but I've been pretty static in terms of retaining the muscle I added prior to 10 years or so.

I'm starting TRT and assuming I won't be able to add muscle mass. Maybe some modest gains if any. Let's say theoretically, I doubled my dose, it seems the general consensus would be that I could pack on muscle, maybe another 10 lbs within 2-3 months. But it also sounds like, as soon as I went back to normal T dose, I'd lose all the muscle.

Based on my experience the last ten years of not being able to gain muscle, but being successful at keeping the muscle I have, that doesn't seem right. Seems like it would be possible to maintain the muscle at lower T, just that you wouldn't be able to keep adding.

Am I off? I guess I probably am based on what I've read. But what is the science and why is it different than my experience?

 

[fifty]

Add calories and lift hard. You’ll gain muscle.
Why do you think that you won’t be able to gain muscle even on trt???

 

[arizonajack]

Add calories and lift hard. You’ll gain muscle.
Why do you think that you won’t be able to gain muscle even on trt???

That's just my gathering based on modest level of research. Mostly on this forum. I'm not an expert. I'll find out soon. It would be nice to add 10 lbs of muscle.

I'm more curious about the idea of a high dose TRT/low dose cycle of T to pack on some muscle and the ability to maintain it long term at regular TRT levels.

 

[fifty]

There is a thread on here comparing different doses of T and fat/muscle % changes. Compared 25/50/125/300/600mg test. I can’t find it right now. Nelson would probably know where it is. Anything 125mg and above was beneficial for muscle gain.

Edit: it’s already linked in this thread
Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.

 

[arizonajack]

Great study. I think I saw that before. This is the question I have. Let's say one was on 100 mg per week. Bumped it up to 200 and packed on the muscle that study suggests. Then went back to 100. Could he maintain the new muscle mass at the 100?

 

[BenM]

That's just my gathering based on modest level of research. Mostly on this forum. I'm not an expert. I'll find out soon. It would be nice to add 10 lbs of muscle.

I'm more curious about the idea of a high dose TRT/low dose cycle of T to pack on some muscle and the ability to maintain it long term at regular TRT levels.

Of course you can gain muscle. Even at your age. I've seen plenty of people (including myself) manage to gain muscle in their middle age even with low T, if you get your T levels optimal you'll be able to do it, you just have to train and eat.

I'm only a couple of months into my TRT journey, and I'm a little younger than you at 42, but I have started to see muscle gain even in a slight calorie deficit which is something I couldn't achieve before. It's amazing what having decent levels of testosterone floating around can do for you. And I've been training for a couple of years now so my noobie gains are gone, but adding TRT has made it like being a noob all over again. I probably need to eat more and make the most of it in case it doesn't last.

 

[Systemlord]

I noticed body composition changes at 376 ng/dL Free T 15.1, even more at 496 with Free T at the top of the ranges (80mg weekly).

 

[lowe2sucks]

200mg
im ex bodybuilder
200mg it's noticable for muscles but not everybody can handle this dose for long enough to see results
100mg not really but i think if you were really low T for long time maybe it will work good because androgen receptors are fresh

 

[JTaylor]

The first time I was placed on TRT my protocol was 200mg of test + 1500IU HCG once a week. I was consuming 6 meals a day and worked out 5 days a week. Managed to go from 155lbs to 189lbs in 6 months. It was absolutely incredible. All muscle and no fat gains, I was having my body fat % measured every month.
This time around I’m on 80mg test TWICE a week and 500IU HCG TWICE a week and have gone from 155lbs to 170lbs in 3 months. Will definitely look into increasing my dosage during my next consult.

Have any of you guys that take hcg along with the test c had any problems with nausea? I started my injections last Friday night 100mg test c (sesame oil) and 500mg of hcg both sub q. During the night early Sunday morning I woke up with severe diarrhea and was nauseous all day. Thought, maybe it was a bug(and still maybe) bc another guy was sick from work over the weekend. Took my monday injections and had a slight headache today and a little nauseous but not too bad at supper today. Im switching from the cream to injections bc i have a 5 month old and donth want to get any on her. I have never been allergic to any medication or ever had an allergic reaction to anything. Does my body need to just get used to the switch or all coincidence?

 

[Leesto]

I have not had any nausea or diarrhea though I always combine HCG and T.