T
tareload
Guest
Lol. Then some should definitely not go that route.
"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"
- Thread starter Belekas
- Start date
Hahaha, touché. Guess I should have worded that differently lol
Belekas
nobody
TRT update.
After being in MAN2MAN live meeting with Dr. Thomas O'Connor aka TheAnabolicDoc and having a talk with him I've decided to change my protocol to 100mg E5D fwiw. So had 2 shots of my last Test-E and will do Sustanon again lol till my Pharma grade Test-E arrives.
First thing he noticed my face and said that for me there is no more weight to drop lol. Also quickly running through my history of AAS use, drug use and other stuff, also my increased RHR and bit elevated BP starting mid-day, he said that we two are very much alike, as I'm always moving, sometimes restless, he is the same. Thats a good problem to have compared to the lazy ones right, but also a double edged sword as we are more prone to anxiety and BP spikes, as far as I understood. I don't remeber how exactly he said but thats what I've got from it. Anyway I agree with him, we need stuff to calm us down, thats why I smoked a lot of weed since my childhood.
So considering I have all the boxes ticked like eating right, working out, maintaining a healthy weight, and been like that for a long time, he suggested to try a small dose of Nebivolol in combination with a small dose of Telmisartan to see if it calms me down and does its job. Can I tolerate it? Fuck knows, but we will see. I have them both comming to me as well with lots of other meds/supps. I was always against any meds but since I'm taking exogenous testosterone for many years I'll pay attention to what hes saying as well. If it makes me feel like a million bucks then be it. As we all one way or another have to pay to play.
Now the main thing that struck with me was when he asked how much I'm injecting...I said 0.15ml 2x week...he was like how much? lol He's taking 0.4ml (100mg) e5d fwiw. Now he said a very interesting thing that I didn't knew. The muscles and brain/cognitive health need different amounts of test to function. What he ment, as I understood was that even though my muscles look a lot better and all body composition a lot better @ 80mg/week, brain and cognitive health might need more to function the way it has to. As I understood he suggested indirectly that I bump my dose up and experiment a bit with higher levels like at least 100-125mg. This was new to me and very interesting so here I am. Will see what happens and will give you guys updates on the progress and experiments I'm doing in my little lab ,)
After being in MAN2MAN live meeting with Dr. Thomas O'Connor aka TheAnabolicDoc and having a talk with him I've decided to change my protocol to 100mg E5D fwiw. So had 2 shots of my last Test-E and will do Sustanon again lol till my Pharma grade Test-E arrives.
First thing he noticed my face and said that for me there is no more weight to drop lol. Also quickly running through my history of AAS use, drug use and other stuff, also my increased RHR and bit elevated BP starting mid-day, he said that we two are very much alike, as I'm always moving, sometimes restless, he is the same. Thats a good problem to have compared to the lazy ones right, but also a double edged sword as we are more prone to anxiety and BP spikes, as far as I understood. I don't remeber how exactly he said but thats what I've got from it. Anyway I agree with him, we need stuff to calm us down, thats why I smoked a lot of weed since my childhood.
So considering I have all the boxes ticked like eating right, working out, maintaining a healthy weight, and been like that for a long time, he suggested to try a small dose of Nebivolol in combination with a small dose of Telmisartan to see if it calms me down and does its job. Can I tolerate it? Fuck knows, but we will see. I have them both comming to me as well with lots of other meds/supps. I was always against any meds but since I'm taking exogenous testosterone for many years I'll pay attention to what hes saying as well. If it makes me feel like a million bucks then be it. As we all one way or another have to pay to play.
Now the main thing that struck with me was when he asked how much I'm injecting...I said 0.15ml 2x week...he was like how much? lol He's taking 0.4ml (100mg) e5d fwiw. Now he said a very interesting thing that I didn't knew. The muscles and brain/cognitive health need different amounts of test to function. What he ment, as I understood was that even though my muscles look a lot better and all body composition a lot better @ 80mg/week, brain and cognitive health might need more to function the way it has to. As I understood he suggested indirectly that I bump my dose up and experiment a bit with higher levels like at least 100-125mg. This was new to me and very interesting so here I am. Will see what happens and will give you guys updates on the progress and experiments I'm doing in my little lab ,)
Belekas
nobody
Hey fam and hope you doing good.
I know some really smart men follow my journal and I'd like to ask your opinion/experience on the following topic. TheAnabolicDoc recommends everyone to follow the DASH diet. I have been eating pretty much like this for the past 20 years or so. A mix of DASH diet and Mediterenian diet with my own personal twists of whatever I thought was healthy at that point in time, but I always kept it LOW FAT FWIW.
Now my question is this. Do you think eating more fattier meats like Beef say 20% coupled with some carb source that you can digest, say its potatoes, or white rice, or whatever raises BP and impacts RHR more then eating lean meats like 5% Beef, or Chicken/Turkey breast or Pork Tenderloin together with same carb source? I know this will vary from person to person but I'm interested in everyones experience and thoughts about this. The Doc strongly advocates against eatint lots of meat and especially as I understood keeping the saturated fats low and increasing the healthy fats. Thats pretty much the standart way of thinking. Also he pays attention to keeping his LDL as low as possible, takes multiply statins, as goes by traditional medicine saying that Cholesterol is the root of all evil. Eat more vegs, more fruit, more healthy fats, etc. Prof Bart goes stronly against this and is at the opposite side of the spectrum with meat only diet which by him is human species specific and the onyl way humans should ever eat, but then again he is retired and can say exactly what he wants without compromising his job or licence if they have one or whatever. I can't get a Coronary Calcium Test Score done here in the UK unless I go by payed route and its like 600-1000gbp lol which is crazy compared to the US, where Dr. O Connor recommends every man from 35 years have it done to see if we have plaque in our arteries. Especially for those who have histpory of stress, alchohol, drugs and ofc the AAS.
We must be on top of our heart health no matter what and thats why this topic is so important IMHO.
What do you guys think and what is your personal experience with all this? I'm more interested about the BP then Cholesterol FWIW but all thoughts are welcome.
Best regards,
Bel
I know some really smart men follow my journal and I'd like to ask your opinion/experience on the following topic. TheAnabolicDoc recommends everyone to follow the DASH diet. I have been eating pretty much like this for the past 20 years or so. A mix of DASH diet and Mediterenian diet with my own personal twists of whatever I thought was healthy at that point in time, but I always kept it LOW FAT FWIW.
Now my question is this. Do you think eating more fattier meats like Beef say 20% coupled with some carb source that you can digest, say its potatoes, or white rice, or whatever raises BP and impacts RHR more then eating lean meats like 5% Beef, or Chicken/Turkey breast or Pork Tenderloin together with same carb source? I know this will vary from person to person but I'm interested in everyones experience and thoughts about this. The Doc strongly advocates against eatint lots of meat and especially as I understood keeping the saturated fats low and increasing the healthy fats. Thats pretty much the standart way of thinking. Also he pays attention to keeping his LDL as low as possible, takes multiply statins, as goes by traditional medicine saying that Cholesterol is the root of all evil. Eat more vegs, more fruit, more healthy fats, etc. Prof Bart goes stronly against this and is at the opposite side of the spectrum with meat only diet which by him is human species specific and the onyl way humans should ever eat, but then again he is retired and can say exactly what he wants without compromising his job or licence if they have one or whatever. I can't get a Coronary Calcium Test Score done here in the UK unless I go by payed route and its like 600-1000gbp lol which is crazy compared to the US, where Dr. O Connor recommends every man from 35 years have it done to see if we have plaque in our arteries. Especially for those who have histpory of stress, alchohol, drugs and ofc the AAS.
We must be on top of our heart health no matter what and thats why this topic is so important IMHO.
What do you guys think and what is your personal experience with all this? I'm more interested about the BP then Cholesterol FWIW but all thoughts are welcome.
Best regards,
Bel
T
tareload
Guest
I have shared my dietary intake and am betting my health that no sugar diet is way to go. Very low carb (I have poor insulin sensitivity) and used to do keto now it is like 50/50 protein/fat. Sometimes more like 70/25/5 (p/f/c).
Cholesterol runs 200 (us units) /hdl 60 to 70 / trig 30. I do well on higher fat diet so must have inuit genes. I think we are still learning so much around what intake individuals do best with.
BP 120 / 75
RHR 50
About 246 lb currently. I think AnaDoc means well but driving your LDL down to 50....I am not convinced. My NMR lipoprotein is excellent with cholesterol-c stats above. I don't eat much fruit and some veggies.
On a traditional higher carb diet my trig/hdl-c ratio definitely takes a hit.
Great post @Belekas. Thank you.
T
tareload
Guest
While I appreciate the effort Bart puts in his message while mechanistic probably correct misses the forest for the trees. He argues about causation which is fine but realistically all of us have some endothelial damage. The barn door is open so to speak. So what to do....?
IMO keep your lipid particle counts and sizes in the excellent range (trig/hdl-c ratio is cheap proxy) and total Cholesterol reasonable. This requires functional insulin response and well managed fasting glucose and fasting insulin levels.
I have no problem eating beef but eat a shitload of sardines, tuna, salmon. Yes I am probably a heavy metal depository. Gotta die of something.
At least the human race has served its purpose...the earth needed plastic.
Belekas
nobody
Thanks for your thoughts and reply brother. It's interesting re Sugar but probably I agree on this one. Ray Peat wouldn't if he was still alive I believe as from what I've read his philosophy was different. But to each his own and like you say we are still learning as we are still in the dark when it comes to this. I believe a huge part of it is hidden from us because of the big corruption in this field. Like I've read about statins that you can't get the research and experimental data going back years which considers the side effects, but you can easily get the data for the benefits. I will try to find and post the source fwiw.
Interesting that you have a nice HDL but also you were eating a lot of stuff that suppose to raise it I believe as well? Ofc genetics play a large role here as well. For example I pretty much always had HDL around 1mmol/L which I believe converts to sub 40 or 38.67mg/dL to be precise. I've tried every diet manipulation I could think off over the course of 20 years and it never went higher. No bueno. Last year my Total Cholesterol was 135 / LDL 73 / HDL 36.73 / TRIG 54 FWIW eating a high-card diet and not fasted as I had no idea they will test Lipids and GP didnt tell me about the tests we gonna run. Now since I eat only Beef and minimal carbs if any at all some days my Total is higher at 166 / HDL 37.51 / Serum Cholesterol/HDL ratio: 4.4 and Se non HDL cholesterol 3.3mmol/L FWIW and also not fasted lol Unbelievable how they run tests and doesn't even care for fasted/non fasted state at the NHS. So anyway thats the data I have but need to run proper tests in fasted state so will do them in the future. And not much I can take home from all this TBF. Maybe anything you got to add or suggest?
You're a big fella compared to me and your numbers look good so kudos. Keep doing what you doing brother. Regarding driving LDL < 50 I'm not sure as well. AnaBolicDoc looks to be very serious and caring for his patients. I talked with him only once but it was a great experience. I like him
Will try talking with him more in the next MAN2MAN meetings when time allows.Always happy to read your thoughts and looking forward in many more great discussions.
Regards,
Bel
Belekas
nobody
Yes agree we probably all do, realistically talking. Also trig/hdl-c ratio below 2 must be there as well.
My HbA1c is 4.7 and Fasting Clucose is 86 and less FWIW.
But I'm also very light at the moment just 76kg. Still hold a decent amount of muscle. But have a bit elevated BP and elevated RHR. I can push even lower my BF% but I think its counterproductive at this point because at this weight and leannes my BP was always good when not on TRT. This is why Dr Thomas O Connor suggested a low dose of Bystolic and low dose of Telmisartan to see if they synergetically calm me down and lower my RHR and BP thus making me more relaxed, unwired, not that edgy and jumping around.
But its hard to say whats giving me this because I still have H Pylori and waiting for my meds to arrive to start treatment. So perhaps this issue effects RHR and BP and anxiety, one way or another. I have to take it step by step else I won't know what is effecting what and still. Also still get weird aches in my chest here and there from time to time. So will push my GP to run as much tests on the heart/cardiovascular system as possible going forward.
I can tolerate beef but cant tolerate sardines or salmon, get straight chest pain. Also no chicken and fattier pork for me as well. Used to love chicken and some pork tenderloins but these days its only beef, all else - fuck all and wrecks me for the day.
I'm a weird motherfucker thats for sure but considered the amounts of drugs and vodka, coming from the Eastern Europe block, I've ingested in my youth thats pretty much whats expected LOL
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
Not that you should dismiss a person's approach based on just their n=1 outcome, but Ray Peat's death at 84 would be considered premature and a data point against his high thyroid, high sugar lifestyle. An educated, affluent, white male in a developed country that takes good care of themselves should be living into their 90's.
T
tareload
Guest
Height/weight and waist circumference for this dude?
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
Actually he died at 86 but my point still stands. I can't find any stats on his height and weight. If you look at videos I'd say about average height and slim build.
T
tareload
Guest
Orange juice with every meal? Sounds like a winner!
T
tareload
Guest
Thanks for mentioning this dude @Belekas. I had never looked him up. My great grandmother easily takes him. She lived to 96 smoking 2 packs of Kools every day since they came out.
Dammit, now I gotta go get me orange juice and a fructose iv.
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Just looked it up and if this is what the dash diet actually actually advocates, this definitely falls under one of the worst diets a person can do, imo. Obv much better than the SAD, but still a horrible diet overall.
I personally wouldn’t take a lick of advice from Dr O’Connor as far as his diet recommendations go. He clearly has done no research into diet, and is just regurgitating what he was taught in medical school, which as we all should know by now is completely outdated nonsense. When it comes to diagnosing disorders and prescribing medications, yes, Dr O’Connor is going to be great at this, due to this being 99% of what he was taught in medical school. The fact that he think cholesterol is the cause of cardiovascular disease, and advocates so highly for statin use, in 2023, is honestly scary, considering cardiovascular disease is his specialty, and life’s work.
im not saying everything professor Bart Kay says is gospel, but he’s got the closest grasp on how the body actually works, when it comes to cardiovascular disease, that I’ve come across to date. Was just watching this earlier this morning
At least 90. With the proper diet, sleep, and lifestyle, as well as a good ability to minimize stress, humans, on an average, should be consistently living until 120. Now that we understand the benefits of eating carnivore (our ancestrally appropriate diet) and understand the dangers of insulin resistance/ inflammation, and importance of exercise (specifically lifting weights), and it being very common to see this current generation working out in gyms, and hormone therapy becoming more and more accepted and talked about, we’re eventually gonna see a large spike in centenarians, and a large spike in people living to around 120. Mark my words. We’re gonna look back at people living to only 80 or 90 like we currently view someone passing away in their 50’s or 60’s
Belekas
nobody
Yeah I agree. Even though a lot of dudes eat like shit so transitioning into the DASH diet will make them a lot more healthier then their KFC's after 9-5 on the daily. But then again any diet which reduces the harmful stuff will be healthier so you know. Also we all so different that still even if you know what to eat you gotta experiment and see what works for you without any Joe Schmoe telling you this or that. Some people can eat whatever, probably even wood and be fucking fine, others can't eat shit as their guts are destroyed over the years from different substance abuse and high stress levels. But now as we know that Beef/Carnivore heals, we are really, IMO, on the right track to heal ourselfs and have some great new infromation going forward. Even though as Prof Bart Kay says there has been absolutely zero studies that show cause and effect of any diet alone as it would be close to impossible to make such study. He explains that clearly in some of his videos.
About statin use in 2023 with all the information that has come to light that is indeed scary. I've read some crazy things about the statin cartels and how they patented and hid the research results on the side effects and nobody can check them not even another researcher or whoever. But you can always check the benefits. That says a lot. But Dr Thomas O Connor is a doctor and probably can't go the other way as many doctors, even though some really want to treat their patients, I really hope, but they just can't because of the medical system design and the influence of Big Pharma cartels. Bart mentioned that now that hes retired he can talk freely and when he was working that wasn't the case.
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
I use the book The Perfect Health Diet as my dietary home base. Although it came out around 2011 and never got a lot of hype (likely because it is not extreme in any direction other than eliminating high-risk foods like wheat and seed oils) it has stood the test of time and is likely more relevant now than ever given the increasing realization that a lot of people don't do well with very low carb, likely due to the stress response. There is also a very good blog that is free at Perfect Health Diet - A diet for healing chronic disease, restoring youthful vitality, and achieving long life | Perfect Health Diet . . I am a hard NO on statins, low-salt, and seed oils (if the Dr. thinks saturated fat is bad then he must think that seed oils are good..huge red flag.) I would also work your way through Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's blog series What Causes Heart Disease. It not only has a lot of great information but it is a great template for how to think about complex problems.
Belekas
nobody
Absolutely agree. Considering the time he put into the research etc, etc living to 84 is def not great. I believe he has some interesting thoughts and maybe ideas but I never took time to read and study his work.
Belekas
nobody
Thank you for chimming in GBV. I value your experience and been enjoying your posts with great attention. I'll get the book, have a read and read the blog as well. Agree re low-carbs not working for many people. Been experimenting with low-carb lately after all my gut issues and like what I see. Always been a high-carb person fwiw. Agree on the last phrase as well but think that with salt there should be more individual testing, basically like with anything. I've done up to 16g/day of sea/himalayan salt when I was mad into bodybuilding back in the day. That was too much but performance and pumps were ridiculous. Might have done some endothelial damage, who knows. Seed oils - huge red flag indeed. Talked with a smart bb mate today and on the same matter he said how flaxseed oil is detrimental to the stomach linning as I understood when taking on an empty stomach...
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
PHD is basically carnivore plus "safe" starches and fruit. This is how I eat when I am experimenting with higher carb or just fall off the carnivore wagon and start binging on my daughter's fruit while packing her lunch. It is probably not as good as pure carnivore when it comes to minimizing inflammation, putting autoimmunity into remission, etc, however it is a million times better than the SAD and I'm sure most people would be healthy on it. And as you mention, there are some people that seem to have trouble fully adapting to a keto diet and have persistently elevated RHR, reduced HRV, and other signs of stress who may do better with a bit of carbs.
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