"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[FunkOdyssey]

Some people can eat whatever, probably even wood and be fucking fine, others can't eat shit as their guts are destroyed over the years from different substance abuse and high stress levels.

You mean fiber? Fiber=wood! Wood is composed of cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which are the same insoluble fibers found in plant foods. When you think about it this way, it seems preposterous that we are being asked to consume more wood to improve our digestive health. No wonder it rarely works for anyone.

Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms - PMC

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation. METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[tareload]

You mean fiber? Fiber=wood! Wood is composed of cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which are the same insoluble fibers found in plant foods. When you think about it this way, it seems preposterous that we are being asked to consume more wood to improve our digestive health. No wonder it rarely works for anyone.

Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms - PMC

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation. METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dietary fiber - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Belekas]

You mean fiber? Fiber=wood! Wood is composed of cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which are the same insoluble fibers found in plant foods. When you think about it this way, it seems preposterous that we are being asked to consume more wood to improve our digestive health. No wonder it rarely works for anyone.

Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms - PMC

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation. METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I ment that some folks can "chew" logs lol and eat whatever they want no issues. But fiber yeah i agree, we both tried with girl increasing fiber and that never helped her neither me it seems. Now she eats raw beef with some cheese and few green leaves on the side and all her gut issues are gone. Ofc we do some more stuff but thats another story.

 

[tareload]

Yummy.

The Real Problem With Wood Pulp in Cheese

Separating the curds from the wood

www.eater.com

In more than you may think.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/329767647/from-mcdonalds-to-organic-valley-youre-probably-eating-wood-pulp

Cellulose from wood to be accurate

Some companies have also found cellulose to be a useful filler, allowing them to cut costs and sometimes run afoul of regulations. Parmesan cheese is a particularly common offender. It’s more expensive to produce than other common cheeses, and Bloomberg found some brands promising “pure” parm are actually hawking products with up to 8.8 percent cellulose. Some didn’t even contain Parmesan.

 

[tareload]

Gimme that "keto" bread from wood ...oh yeah.

A Brief History of Wood Pulp in Food - Cornucopia Institute

Cornucopia’s Take: Cellulose from wood pulp has no nutritional benefit, but it is used in many foods as a filler or to keep cheese shreds, for example,

www.cornucopia.org

You are starting to see this dirty keto modified wheat starch shit popping up all over. My dog won't touch it.

 

[Belekas]

I use the book The Perfect Health Diet as my dietary home base. Although it came out around 2011 and never got a lot of hype (likely because it is not extreme in any direction other than eliminating high-risk foods like wheat and seed oils) it has stood the test of time and is likely more relevant now than ever given the increasing realization that a lot of people don't do well with very low carb, likely due to the stress response. There is also a very good blog that is free at Perfect Health Diet - A diet for healing chronic disease, restoring youthful vitality, and achieving long life | Perfect Health Diet . . I am a hard NO on statins, low-salt, and seed oils (if the Dr. thinks saturated fat is bad then he must think that seed oils are good..huge red flag.) I would also work your way through Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's blog series What Causes Heart Disease. It not only has a lot of great information but it is a great template for how to think about complex problems.

I've got the book, read some and really like the charts as I work with charts myself, so great to have some statistical significance fwiw. Love it. Will read it all going forward. Also will study Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's blog and What Causes Heart Disease especially as you suggested. Also will read his blog with time as well as I never heard about him. So again thanks for posting and looking forward in more healthy discussion.

Regards,
Bel

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I've got the book, read some and really like the charts as I work with charts myself, so great to have some statistical significance fwiw. Love it. Will read it all going forward. Also will study Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's blog and What Causes Heart Disease especially as you suggested. Also will read his blog with time as well as I never heard about him. So again thanks for posting and looking forward in more healthy discussion.

Regards,
Bel

Also, you mentioned the CAC score. I am not a big fan of it because it seems that the action afterward is always the same, which is to try to protect your heart. Calcification is an advanced stage of disease, so you could still have a developing issue even with a low score. Dr. Kendrick did a post about it as well. Those who advocate for it often use it to judge aggressiveness of statin therapy, but statins have not been shown to reverse calcification and have severe issues of their own, especially since they give a false sense of confidence and distract from things that actually do help.

 

[Gman86]

I ment that some folks can "chew" logs lol and eat whatever they want no issues. But fiber yeah i agree, we both tried with girl increasing fiber and that never helped her neither me it seems. Now she eats raw beef with some cheese and few green leaves on the side and all her gut issues are gone. Ofc we do some more stuff but thats another story.

Same exact thing with my ex. She had GI issues for years, and throughout part of the time we were together. After explaining to her enough times that veggies are bad for us, and fiber can only make GI issues worse, she eventually tried cutting out veggies, and all her GI issues disappeared like magic. Pretty sure to this day she doesn’t touch any vegetables. I’m a nurse, as most people here know, and i find it extremely comical anytime a fiber supplement is prescribed/ recommended for a patient with constipation. It blows my mind that in 2023 doctors/ the general population still thinks fiber will improve bowel motility. When it’s the complete opposite. Literally one of the best things u can do for constipation is avoid all fiber. It’s one of the best things u can do for ur gut in general

 

[Gman86]

You mean fiber? Fiber=wood! Wood is composed of cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which are the same insoluble fibers found in plant foods. When you think about it this way, it seems preposterous that we are being asked to consume more wood to improve our digestive health. No wonder it rarely works for anyone.

Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms - PMC

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation. METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Blows my mind

 

[Belekas]

Also, you mentioned the CAC score. I am not a big fan of it because it seems that the action afterward is always the same, which is to try to protect your heart. Calcification is an advanced stage of disease, so you could still have a developing issue even with a low score. Dr. Kendrick did a post about it as well. Those who advocate for it often use it to judge aggressiveness of statin therapy, but statins have not been shown to reverse calcification and have severe issues of their own, especially since they give a false sense of confidence and distract from things that actually do help.

Yeah I mentioned it as Dr. Thomas O'Connor advocates every men on his AnabolicDocApp to go and get it done. He also preaches the DASH diet for better BP and lipid control. Himself takes statins and a few but won't go into exact kinds as think theres a youtube video where he shows what he's taking. He had CAC score test done in his late 30s and had a score of 37 IIRC. So his logic is that he must use them and also his clients, if they have a skewed lipid profile, as well. Mind you most his clients are pushing heavy PED doses like bodybuilders, powerlifters, and just men who love androgens. That being said I'm also against statins as I've read enough material to see that they do fuck all and even more harm then good. So I agree with you on this one as well. But if we had it here in the UK for the price as in the USA I would go and do it because I have an extensive history of alcohol, drug and AAS abuse FWIW. I have my own gut issues that I'm treating for a long time, esp the active H-Pylori and its induced chronic gastritis which gives me chest pains here and there. So I'd be happy to be sure that no arteries in my chest are blocked and that the pain is from the chronic bacteria and its created issues that I'm battling.

 

[Belekas]

Same exact thing with my ex. She had GI issues for years, and throughout part of the time we were together. After explaining to her enough times that veggies are bad for us, and fiber can only make GI issues worse, she eventually tried cutting out veggies, and all her GI issues disappeared like magic. Pretty sure to this day she doesn’t touch any vegetables. I’m a nurse, as most people here know, and i find it extremely comical anytime a fiber supplement is prescribed/ recommended for a patient with constipation. It blows my mind that in 2023 doctors/ the general population still thinks fiber will improve bowel motility. When it’s the complete opposite. Literally one of the best things u can do for constipation is avoid all fiber. It’s one of the best things u can do for ur gut in general

Absolutely agree and the proof is in the pudding. My girls IBS or whatever the fuck she had was so severe she was running to the toilet every time post meal pretty much. Was eating fiber at that time and even supplementing Psylium Husk IIRC. Although she was also a chronic coffee drinker all her life and would run to get the cup of coffee straight out of bed, which is the worst idea you can think of, if you are having such severe gut issues. Coffee is a relaxant. So I fucked her brain for many years really good and she started to listen, finally. Gave up coffee, started drinking water, ticking all the required boxes, started eating more red meat but raw as she can't eat cooked due to the smell, but loves raw. Low carb, more cheese, a bit of leafy greens that she likes. And what do you know- her gut has never been like this in a long long time. No IBS, no diarhea, no bloat, etc, if she follows the plan and eats and does whats needed. Plus shes anemic from the birth so eating red meat is very beneficial to her as well. I'm happy with her progress so far considering her gut issues. Next will come the hormones but thats for another time.

 

[Gman86]

Absolutely agree and the proof is in the pudding. My girls IBS or whatever the fuck she had was so severe she was running to the toilet every time post meal pretty much. Was eating fiber at that time and even supplementing Psylium Husk IIRC. Although she was also a chronic coffee drinker all her life and would run to get the cup of coffee straight out of bed, which is the worst idea you can think of, if you are having such severe gut issues. Coffee is a relaxant. So I fucked her brain for many years really good and she started to listen, finally. Gave up coffee, started drinking water, ticking all the required boxes, started eating more red meat but raw as she can't eat cooked due to the smell, but loves raw. Low carb, more cheese, a bit of leafy greens that she likes. And what do you know- her gut has never been like this in a long long time. No IBS, no diarhea, no bloat, etc, if she follows the plan and eats and does whats needed. Plus shes anemic from the birth so eating red meat is very beneficial to her as well. I'm happy with her progress so far considering her gut issues. Next will come the hormones but thats for another time.

Wow, ur girl sounds awesome, as far as doing what she needs to do to optimize her health and happiness. She also sounds pretty open minded. I find those qualities very attractive in a significant other

and raw meat is better for us than cooked meat, and is digested better than cooked meat, so she’s actually doing herself a great service by not cooking the meat she eats. I would eat all my meat raw too if I didn’t prefer the flavor, taste and texture of cooked meat so much compared to raw meat

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Wow, ur girl sounds awesome, as far as doing what she needs to do to optimize her health and happiness. She also sounds pretty open minded. I find those qualities very attractive in a significant other

and raw meat is better for us than cooked meat, and is digested better than cooked meat, so she’s actually doing herself a great service by not cooking the meat she eats. I would eat all my meat raw too if I didn’t prefer the flavor, taste and texture of cooked meat so much compared to raw meat

I don't think it is true that raw meat is digested better. There are many studies that look at the effect of cooking temperature on protein digestibility, speed of absorption and there is basically an inverted U-shape curve, where there's an optimal amount of cooking and too little and too much are worse.

Here is a good review of strategies to improve digestion of protein, which summarizes what we know about how cooking (not too much, not too little) improves digestion:

Methods for improving meat protein digestibility in older adults - PMC

This review explores the factors that improve meat protein digestibility and applies the findings to the development of home meal replacements with improved protein digestion rates in older adults. Various methods improve the digestion rate of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Kehlet et al. reported that cooking at 70°C increases protein digestibility due to denaturation increasing the approachability of cleavage sites to gastrointestinal enzymes compared to 100°C or above [104]. However, cooking at high temperatures or for a prolonged time can induce protein-protein interactions, leading to aggregation [103,104]. Protein aggregation limits the accessibility of enzymes during digestion and thus may slow the digestibility of oven-cooked pork [104]. Kehlet et al. concluded that the gastric digestion of meat proteins in vitro was faster after 72 min at 58°C compared to oven cooking at 160°C and a longer low-temperature holding time of 17 h [104]. The general temperature and time recommended by chefs for sous vide cooking beef, pork, and lamb range from 58°C to 63°C for 10–48 h [105,106]. Numerous connective tissues in muscles require longer sous vide times than tender meat cuts. Baldwin reported that cooking at temperatures between 55°C and 60°C for 24–48 h was suitable for softening tough meat cuts (pork shoulders and beef chuck) [105,107]. Summarizing the mechanisms for increasing protein digestion by thermal treatments, it was found that thermal treatments destroyed the primary and secondary structures of the protein, and the digestion rate of the protein was increased due to α-helix reduction and β-sheet increase (Fig. 4).

Basically, if it seems to anyone that raw meat is digesting better than cooked meat, they were likely overcooking their meat.

 

[Belekas]

Wow, ur girl sounds awesome, as far as doing what she needs to do to optimize her health and happiness. She also sounds pretty open minded. I find those qualities very attractive in a significant other

and raw meat is better for us than cooked meat, and is digested better than cooked meat, so she’s actually doing herself a great service by not cooking the meat she eats. I would eat all my meat raw too if I didn’t prefer the flavor, taste and texture of cooked meat so much compared to raw meat

I tried some raw beef but nah not for me either at least not now lol.

She has eaten raw meat in episodes when was living in the farm, used to drink raw milk, eat pastured eggs, raw cheese, chicken, pork, beef, whatever they had there back then. That was pretty much how all my country lived back in the day. Country side. Had not much but real, fresh food(animals), their own grown vegetables and fruit. Now we fucking live in the city town right above the busiest spot lol in a foreign country...and miss our country side so so much. We will travel and live somewhere alone when the time and rhyme be right.

 

[Belekas]

Started watching Q & A by Taeian Clark.

 

[Gman86]

I don't think it is true that raw meat is digested better. There are many studies that look at the effect of cooking temperature on protein digestibility, speed of absorption and there is basically an inverted U-shape curve, where there's an optimal amount of cooking and too little and too much are worse.

Here is a good review of strategies to improve digestion of protein, which summarizes what we know about how cooking (not too much, not too little) improves digestion:

Methods for improving meat protein digestibility in older adults - PMC

This review explores the factors that improve meat protein digestibility and applies the findings to the development of home meal replacements with improved protein digestion rates in older adults. Various methods improve the digestion rate of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 35720

Basically, if it seems to anyone that raw meat is digesting better than cooked meat, they were likely overcooking their meat.

Ya idk, the whole killing meat with heat making it better for us just triggers all sorts of bullshit alarms in my brain lol. When u cook something, ur literally destroying it. Whether that be just a little, or a lot. It’s still destroying it to a degree. Just doesn’t make sense how destroying something makes it more nutritious

From what I’m seeing, cooking breaks down the fibers and connective tissue in the meat, making it easier to chew, and therefore easier to breakdown into smaller parts before entering the stomach, and therefore allowing for more nutrient absorption. Couldn’t this same thing be achieved from just chewing raw meat more, until it’s in small pieces before swallowing?

I just don’t see how destroying some vitamins, and enzymes, in the meat, and the meat itself, could lead to absorbing more micronutrients from the meat.

however, based on some quick googling, there does seem to be something to cooking certain foods and increasing absorption of certain nutrients. For example, apparently cooking egg whites increases the digestible of the protein 180% compared to raw egg yolks. My gut is still telling me it’s more beneficial to eat raw meat vs cooked tho lol

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Ya idk, the whole killing meat with heat making it better for us just triggers all sorts of bullshit alarms in my brain lol. When u cook something, ur literally destroying it. Whether that be just a little, or a lot. It’s still destroying it to a degree. Just doesn’t make sense how destroying something makes it more nutritious

From what I’m seeing, cooking breaks down the fibers and connective tissue in the meat, making it easier to chew, and therefore easier to breakdown into smaller parts before entering the stomach, and therefore allowing for more nutrient absorption. Couldn’t this same thing be achieved from just chewing raw meat more, until it’s in small pieces before swallowing?

I just don’t see how destroying some vitamins, and enzymes, in the meat, and the meat itself, could lead to absorbing more micronutrients from the meat.

however, based on some quick googling, there does seem to be something to cooking certain foods and increasing absorption of certain nutrients. For example, apparently cooking egg whites increases the digestible of the protein 180% compared to raw egg yolks. My gut is still telling me it’s more beneficial to eat raw meat vs cooked tho lol

I'm not an expert on the structure of proteins but if you read the study I posted, they explain that cooking breaks the proteins apart into pieces that are more easily accessed by your digestive enzymes. I'm imagining the whole protein as like a ball of yarn, and you're trying to snip it at with some little scissors (your proteolytic enzymes) from the outside when it is raw. That's going to be alot of work and take some time. Or you can apply some heat, and the ball of yarn unravels a bit, so you can get in there to cut pieces off more quickly and easily.

We ARE trying to destroy the protein in a sense to absorb it. It needs to be reduced, one way or another, from a whole protein to a bunch of individual amino acids that we can actually take up with transporters in the small intestine. You might think of heat as pre-digesting the food when it helps break things down for us.

 

[Gman86]

I'm not an expert on the structure of proteins but if you read the study I posted, they explain that cooking breaks the proteins apart into pieces that are more easily accessed by your digestive enzymes. I'm imagining the whole protein as like a ball of yarn, and you're trying to snip it at with some little scissors (your proteolytic enzymes) from the outside when it is raw. That's going to be alot of work and take some time. Or you can apply some heat, and the ball of yarn unravels a bit, so you can get in there to cut pieces off more quickly and easily.

We ARE trying to destroy the protein in a sense to absorb it. It needs to be reduced, one way or another, from a whole protein to a bunch of individual amino acids that we can actually take up with transporters in the small intestine. You might think of heat as pre-digesting the food when it helps break things down for us.

Ya that’s what I’m wondering. I’m wondering if just chewing raw meat thoroughly can result in the same effect, or if it’s more of a chemical process that makes the protein and certain nutrients more bioavailable, which can’t be replicated by simply chewing the raw meat through enough. I mean clearly the difference in digestibility between raw and cooked egg whites has nothing to do with how much it’s chewed

 

[Belekas]

So a little update so far 10 months on TRT at +- 100mg/week. Currently on E5D protocol FWIW.

Pros:
Energy seems limitless.
Libido/Sex drive sweet as well = same as before TRT.
Erections proper= same as before TRT.
Body composition def improved.
Muscles look way more alive and full even on low bf%.
Sleep no problems = same as before TRT.

Cons:
Noticed losing hair density and a lot from top of the head.
Elevated BP and RHR.
Likely more GERD pain but still questionable as haven't cured H-Pylori

I might have missed something here and there but these are probable the most important ones for me. I have started my TRT with TT 470 and cFT 5.7 FWIW to see if raising FT will help me feel and perform better. So far I think that with all the work and time I've put in it- it's not worth the hustle. Seems like at the current point in time TRT using Test only is not something my body agrees with. If my BP would be good and RHR wouldn't be elevated I would still think about going bald and sacrificing my hair for them gainz but now- nah, fuck that. I still have a lot of medication/vitamins/supps coming to see and will start curing H-Pylori with tons of antibiotics, etc, but I'm thinking that for now Testosterone based TRT is just out of the window for me. I'm well more cool, calm and collected staying 100% natural, maintaining a good diet, as always the last 2 decades, working out, optimizing my sleep and stress levels. I will give BP medications a go once they arrive soon but TBH I don't want to be on any medication for the sake of gym gains, at least now, as I'm only 40 years old, and would still prefer to keep my hair, for fucks sake lol

So thats that. Will see how my BP looks once after the antibiotic treatment. Will log it, follow it and then decide what to do. Dose reduction doesn't do shit for my BP so it seems like a systematic elevation FWIW. Might be the E2, might be more DHT, might be a combination, or another 100 million things. So given my complicated situation in life, I'm not down to experiment going into next year. Will give it till this years end and then hang the gloves. It's been an interesting experiment so far but more or less I'm leaning towards staying natural at least for now or looking for other ways to TRT to try and reduce the BP without BP meds and 100 gazzilions of supplements. Mind you diet and salt manipulations does't work either. Although I still haven't tried to minimise sodium intake say to 1500mg/day and see what happens or even go without salt for the sake of experiment and take notes. So might do that, but for now I need to ingest more Potassium to reach the daily 4500mg threashold and more magnesium even though its doing fuck all for it LOL

Some guys are lucky and can run 2-3g of test without any side effects and some, like me, will have a BP elevation even at 100mg LMAO Probably boils down to my history and all the shit that I've done and taken when was young and also genetics. In 10-20 years we should have a lot more data on how to navigate these muddy waters and then I will def be looking to do it all again just better and more prepared and hopefully more in peace with life as now the stress levels are through the roof on the constant basis and been like that for years. Ain't cool but IIWII. Gotta man da fuck up and push though and never ever give up!

Peace!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

They say you either win or you learn. When it comes to TRT, I guess we're both in learn club! One of the benefits is a newfound appreciation for your automatically functioning HPTA that you don't have to give a second thought to. Another perk should be a substantial savings of time and headspace when you reclaim everything you were dedicating to TRT research and management. I haven't realized that one yet though because I'm still hanging around for some reason. I think I'm holding out hope that I will find a way to make it work at some point.

Natty life isn't so bad though, unless your baseline is seriously and officially hypogonadal. If you want to push the science on this forward, you should try to find some good cognitive tests online to perform before and after you come off. My bet is your performance goes way up once you're off. And then the hair gains -- some guys are flying to foreign countries trying to get hair transplants to match what is going to naturally grow back for you once you quit. The future is still bright my friend.