"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Gman86]

Yeah eating crap, drinking, smoking, living like a piece of shit doesn't matter but 200mg test will kill you lol People these days are dumb af and even butter is harder then most of them. If you are feeling good, bloodowork looks good, everything optimized and you are not pushing mega doses then thats probably wont kill you but ofc that depends on many underlying issues one might have and never knew about them and which become apparent only after your death. Which also comes naturally right, but with help of androgens perhaps you called your death faster but perhaps not as well, its all gray area. And im not talking about IFBB league dosages for years/decades where your blood work looks great one day and next day you already on your death bed counting your last days if any at all. Seen too many pro bodybuilders pass away like that in the last 20 years I'm serious with my own training, nutrition and overall health.

I have a mate who does 1g test week sometimes and feels exactly same as on 250g per week. Sometimes he forgets to pin so pins once a month and feels the same lol and im here fucking sweating, splitting, counting, doing 50mg per week and fuck all LMAO unbelievable how we all are different and unique and everyones millage varys.

Exactly. We’re all shortening our lives one way or another. Whether it’s from a poor diet, or using slightly higher dosages of testosterone than most guys on HRT, or being surrounded by wifi signals, or being exposed to phthalates and parabens in the plastics we store things in and drink/ eat out of, or all the chemicals we’re exposed to in scented things, or the chemicals we’re exposed to in cleaning supplies we use around the house, the list goes on and on. My point is, we’re all shortening our lives in many different ways that we either choose, or not choose to do to ourselves, and it’s just annoying for some guys to make other men feel like they’re signing their own death certificate and are making the dumbest mistake ever by using 200-300mg of test per week, as an example, but aren’t signing their own death certificates by exposing themselves to toxins everyday that wreak havoc on the body, and/ or are eating a poor/ horrible diet, aren't sleeping well, have poor vital signs that they leave unmanaged, have high stress levels, exercise rarely, or don’t exercise at all, have poor social relationships, use drugs too often, which obv includes alcohol, etc. I’m just not seeing how using 200-300mg of test per week is any worse than any of the factors I mentioned, as far as one’s health goes. So to make guys feel like they’re drastically effecting their health/ longevity, in a negative way, from using dosages of test slightly above what most men use for HRT purposes, is simply ridiculous. If ur gonna be annoying and tell guys they’re idiots for using 200-300mg of testosterone per week, at least be consistent and tell everyone that they’re being idiots for taking years off their lives from all the other factors I mentioned above as well lol

 

[tareload]

flawed studies

The studies are flawed or the extrapolation of the study from rodent to human is flawed? Perhaps try another adjective?

 

[tareload]

annoying

Perhaps "honest" is a better adjective here since you don't know the genes/gene expression of the reader. Yes consistency is always good practice. You are consistent in your rationalization. Better to just be honest and state we all have our vices and drugs of choice.

 

[Belekas]

Exactly. We’re all shortening our lives one way or another. Whether it’s from a poor diet, or using slightly higher dosages of testosterone than most guys on HRT, or being surrounded by wifi signals, or being exposed to phthalates and parabens in the plastics we store things in and drink/ eat out of, or all the chemicals we’re exposed to in scented things, or the chemicals we’re exposed to in cleaning supplies we use around the house, the list goes on and on. My point is, we’re all shortening our lives in many different ways that we either choose, or not choose to do to ourselves, and it’s just annoying for some guys to make other men feel like they’re signing their own death certificate and are making the dumbest mistake ever by using 200-300mg of test per week, as an example, but aren’t signing their own death certificates by exposing themselves to toxins everyday that wreak havoc on the body, and/ or are eating a poor/ horrible diet, aren't sleeping well, have poor vital signs that they leave unmanaged, have high stress levels, exercise rarely, or don’t exercise at all, have poor social relationships, use drugs too often, which obv includes alcohol, etc. I’m just not seeing how using 200-300mg of test per week is any worse than any of the factors I mentioned, as far as one’s health goes. So to make guys feel like they’re drastically effecting their health/ longevity, in a negative way, from using dosages of test slightly above what most men use for HRT purposes, is simply ridiculous. If ur gonna be annoying and tell guys they’re idiots for using 200-300mg of testosterone per week, at least be consistent and tell everyone that they’re being idiots for taking years off their lives from all the other factors I mentioned above as well lol

Agreed. From the day we are born we are murdering ourselves with pretty much everything we do. Then it all will come to genetics, our parents genetics, how they lived, what they eaten, etc, etc, etc. Whatever we put in our mouth has an effect on our health. The "analogy" would be the garbage bin. You throw whatever you want or don't need into it. Quite similar with human stomach in a sense. The difference is that we take the garbage bin out and its clean like new. With the stomach we can't do it. Whatever you throw in it will have an effect and you just can't take it out and throw it away. Be good if we could though. So everything we put in our mouths basically is bringing us one step closer to the grand finale you wan't it or not. Be cool to know what food does what damage and how much does "good" food improve the longevity or cell function, increase/decrease its aging, etc, but I'm guessing we will never know. Considering the fact how corrupt this little world of ours is the darkness ain't going nowhere anything soon and thats a fact. The thing is we all have our own time to go whatever that time is. Some eat as healthy as possible yet die young. Others live on the street, eat whatever they find in the dumpster, do drugs, drink poison and live to 80. I'm not talking about QOF just in general. The medicine is so advanced, yet we don't know so much. The deeper into the woods the darker it gets...as the saying goes...

 

[Belekas]

So I've been 7 days without my T shot and just now had my bird do it. 0.15ml or 37.2mg of my last 1ml pharma grade Testosterone Enanthate from Iran I had bought many years ago that was still good till this year as per exp date. Going back to my orignal protocol E3.5D fwiw. Once this 1ml vial ends I'll be left with the last 12 vials of Sustanon250. See if I'll be able to get some Enanthate till that time if not I'll have to play with Sustanon but then again will have to change the injection frequency as E3.5 or E4Ds doesn't work for me. Based on all I've read on Reddit, google, the UK guys are recommending injecting it ED or at least EOD because of the Testosterone Propionate short ester being one of 4 in it.

Antibiotics should arrive soon I hope and will start my last #3 treatment regiment for H-Pylori. Nothing funny considering the huge doses I will be taking but its gotta be done. If it fails I'll back my horses from the antibiotics for some time and will have to think of another plan and eat Carnivore to mitigate the chest pain and discomfort. So fingers crossed lets make moves.

Hope you guys had a cracking weekend and wish everybody good luck the next week!

Best regards,
Bel

 

[tareload]

I have a mate who does 1g test week sometimes and feels exactly same as on 250g per week. Sometimes he forgets to pin so pins once a month and feels the same lol and im here fucking sweating, splitting, counting, doing 50mg per week and fuck all LMAO unbelievable how we all are different and unique and everyones millage varys.

Exactly why you DO NOT rationalize 300 mg/week Test cruise as perfectly acceptable for the unknown reader on a public forum.

That is the fun part of CVD and heart issues...you may feel perfectly fine until you don't. Monitoring BP/RHR/HRR and regular heart surveillance is responsible if you dabble in the androgen hobby.

If you want to play prepare to possibly pay. Get comfortable with that. The "free lunch" TOT group aint looking out for you.

 

[tareload]

According to some studies done on nandrolone solo therapy, it supposedly can cause left ventricular hypertrophy. But where are all these men with LVH that have used nandrolone? Shouldn’t nelson have a pretty bad case of LVH at this point?

Why would @Nelson Vergel have a bad case of LVH at this point? He has been quite clear that he stopped nandrolone because he ended up running into BP issues. You may want to brush up on the reversibility of LVH with cessation of excess androgen use. You seem to take every opportunity you can to rationalize and project a false sense of confidence to the naive reader about the risks of even modest androgen abuse. How about being transparent about the potential risks and let the reader decide if the risk is worth the reward?

For your reference:

Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

I'd have to dig up my exact numbers, but basically on daily injections of 20mg of test enanthate (140 a week), I was at total t of ~820 and free t was around 19. I had to take anastrozole 2x a week to keep my estrogen in the low 30's, which is consistently the highest I can get it without side...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Gman86]

Why would @Nelson Vergel have a bad case of LVH at this point? He has been quite clear that he stopped nandrolone because he ended up running into BP issues. You may want to brush up on the reversibility of LVH with cessation of excess androgen use. You seem to take every opportunity you can to rationalize and project a false sense of confidence to the naive reader about the risks of even modest androgen abuse. How about being transparent about the potential risks and let the reader decide if the risk is worth the reward?

For your reference:

Does anyone use Nandrolone (Deca Durabolin) ?

I'd have to dig up my exact numbers, but basically on daily injections of 20mg of test enanthate (140 a week), I was at total t of ~820 and free t was around 19. I had to take anastrozole 2x a week to keep my estrogen in the low 30's, which is consistently the highest I can get it without side...

www.excelmale.com

ur absolutely right. I think the best approach is to definitely just help educate everyone, and let everyone make their own decisions on what’s best for them and their happiness and health, and to not judge them based on those decisions.

I personally believe, based on my own research, that taking say 300mg of testosterone per week will not affect a man’s health negatively to even a moderate degree. Possibly not even to a mild degree. I think if the person is strict with all other lifestyle factors, using 300mg of testosterone will only have a mild negative effect on their health, if that.

I personally believe eating a standard american diet, or not exercising regularly, is much worse for a man’s health than someone that is using 300mg of testosterone per week. That’s just my personal opinion, and I truly believe it to be true. I dont think some guys give other men enough credit. I think most people are able to decipher between what certain people feel is best for them and their lives, and what they feel is best for their own lives. I don’t think many guys here are copying and pasting what others do simply because it’s what works for another person. I personally feel like most people have better critical thinking skills than that. Plus I just have a mindset where u should always cater to the majority, and never cater to the minority. So I always keep the majority of how people think in mind whenever I say anything. I never think about how a minority of people are going to interpret something

That’s awesome that cessation of androgen use, or decreasing overall androgen load, can reverse LVH. That further reinforces my belief that a man using nandrolone, in therapeutic dosages, that has healthy E2 levels, should fear LVH from using nandrolone even less than I already thought they should

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) is a condition where the walls of the heart's main pumping chamber, the left ventricle, become thickened[2]. The most common cause of LVH is high blood pressure[2][3]. Here are some ways to lower LVH:

1. **Exercise regularly**: Regular physical activity helps to lower blood pressure. With your provider's OK, aim for at least 30 minutes of physical activity most days[1].

2. **Manage conditions that cause high blood pressure**: Conditions such as high blood pressure and sleep apnea can cause blood pressure to be higher. Treating these conditions can help prevent LVH from worsening[1][3][4].

3. **Take medications**: Medications can be used to treat symptoms and prevent complications of LVH. Blood pressure drugs may help reduce or prevent thickening of the heart muscle. The type of medication prescribed depends on the cause of LVH[1][4].

4. **Lifestyle changes**: Heart-healthy habits, including eating well and getting regular exercise, can lower blood pressure and reduce LVH complications[3][4].

5. **Manage weight**: Losing weight can help lower blood pressure and may help reverse LVH. Talk with your care provider to set realistic goals for weight loss[4].

6. **Manage stress**: Finding ways to reduce emotional stress, such as getting more exercise or practicing mindfulness, can help lower blood pressure and reduce LVH complications[4].

It's important to note that the best treatment for LVH will depend on what caused it[5][6]. Therefore, it's important to work with a healthcare provider to determine the underlying cause and develop a personalized treatment plan.

Citations:
[1] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic
[2] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Symptoms and causes
[3] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy (LVH): Causes, Symptoms and Treatment
[4] Left ventricular hypertrophy
[5] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy (LVH) Information & Treatment
[6] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy: Etiology-Based Therapeutic Options


Medications can be used to treat left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) and its underlying causes. The specific medication prescribed will depend on the cause of LVH. Here are some medications that might be used to treat LVH or the conditions that cause it:

1. **Angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors**: These drugs relax the heart muscle and widen blood vessels, which helps to reduce blood pressure[3]. Examples of ACE inhibitors include lisinopril, enalapril, and ramipril.

2. **Angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs)**: ARBs work similarly to ACE inhibitors by blocking the effects of a hormone called angiotensin II, which narrows blood vessels and increases blood pressure[1]. Examples of ARBs include losartan, valsartan, and candesartan.

3. **Calcium channel blockers (CCBs)**: CCBs help relax and widen blood vessels, reducing blood pressure[1]. They can also help improve blood flow to the heart. Examples of CCBs include amlodipine, diltiazem, and verapamil.

4. **Beta blockers**: Beta blockers slow down the heart rate and reduce the force of contractions, which can help lower blood pressure and reduce the workload on the heart[1]. Examples of beta blockers include metoprolol, carvedilol, and bisoprolol.

5. **Diuretics**: Diuretics, also known as water pills, help reduce fluid buildup in the body by increasing urine production[3]. This can help lower blood pressure. Examples of diuretics include hydrochlorothiazide, furosemide, and spironolactone.

It's important to note that these medications should be prescribed and monitored by a healthcare provider. The choice of medication will depend on the individual's specific condition and medical history. Other treatment options for LVH may include catheter procedures or surgery, depending on the underlying cause[3][6].

Citations:
[1] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy: Etiology-Based Therapeutic Options
[2] Compare Current Hypertension-With-Left-Ventricular-Hypertrophy Drugs and Medications with Ratings & Reviews
[3] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic
[4] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Augusta Health
[5] Left ventricular hypertrophy Disease Reference Guide - Drugs.com
[6] Left ventricular hypertrophy

The time it takes for medications to show an effect on left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) can vary depending on several factors, including the specific medication being used, the severity of LVH, and the underlying cause of LVH. Unfortunately, the search results did not provide specific information on the timeline for medication effects on LVH. However, it's important to note that LVH is a chronic condition, and the goal of medication treatment is to manage symptoms, prevent complications, and slow down the progression of LVH over time.

In general, it may take several weeks or even months of consistent medication use to see noticeable improvements in LVH. It's important to follow the prescribed medication regimen and regularly monitor blood pressure and other relevant health markers to assess the effectiveness of the treatment. Your healthcare provider will be able to provide more specific information about the expected timeline for medication effects based on your individual circumstances.

It's worth mentioning that medication alone may not be sufficient to treat LVH. Lifestyle changes, such as adopting a heart-healthy diet, engaging in regular physical activity, managing stress, and avoiding tobacco and excessive alcohol use, are also important components of LVH management. Working closely with your healthcare provider and following their recommendations will help ensure the most effective treatment plan for your specific situation.

Citations:
[1] https://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-9343(83)90126-2/fulltext
[2] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy: Etiology-Based Therapeutic Options
[3] Left ventricular hypertrophy
[4] Left ventricular hypertrophy Disease Reference Guide - Drugs.com
[5] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic
[6] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Augusta Health

Several factors can affect how long it takes for medications to show an effect on left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH). Here are some factors that may influence the timeline for medication effects:

1. **Type of medication**: Different classes of medications may have varying effects on LVH regression[1][2]. For example, some studies suggest that diuretics and sympatholytic drugs may have different long-term effects on LVH[1]. The specific medication prescribed will depend on the underlying cause of LVH.

2. **Severity of LVH**: The severity of LVH can affect how long it takes for medications to show an effect. In general, the more severe the LVH, the longer it may take to see improvements[3].

3. **Underlying cause of LVH**: The underlying cause of LVH can also impact the timeline for medication effects. For example, if LVH is caused by high blood pressure, medications that lower blood pressure may help reduce LVH over time[3]. However, if LVH is caused by aortic valve stenosis, surgery or other procedures may be necessary to treat the condition[6].

4. **Consistency of medication use**: Consistent use of medications is important for achieving the desired effects. It may take several weeks or even months of consistent medication use to see noticeable improvements in LVH[3].

5. **Lifestyle factors**: Lifestyle factors, such as diet, exercise, and stress management, can also impact the effectiveness of medication treatment for LVH. Adopting heart-healthy habits can help improve the effectiveness of medication treatment[3].

It's important to work closely with a healthcare provider to develop a personalized treatment plan for LVH. Your healthcare provider can provide more specific information about the expected timeline for medication effects based on your individual circumstances.

Citations:
[1] https://www.amjmed.com/article/0002-9343(83)90126-2/fulltext
[2] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.116.004152
[3] Left ventricular hypertrophy - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic
[4] Left Ventricular Hypertrophy: Etiology-Based Therapeutic Options
[5] Anti-Hypertensive Drugs Have Different Effects on Ventricular Hypertrophy Regression
[6] Left ventricular hypertrophy

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) is a physiological adaptation to long-term endurance training[3]. However, LVH can also be a sign of underlying heart disease, such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM)[4][6]. Here are some key points about LVH in runners based on the search results:

1. **LVH is common in runners**: LVH is a common finding in runners and other endurance athletes[1][3][4]. Regular and prolonged exercise can cause increased left ventricular wall thickness, which can overlap with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy[5].

2. **LVH in runners is usually physiological**: In most cases, LVH in runners is a physiological adaptation to long-term endurance training[3]. This type of LVH is often referred to as "athlete's heart"[6]. However, it's important to differentiate between physiological LVH and pathological LVH, which is a sign of underlying heart disease[4][6].

3. **Differentiating physiological from pathological LVH can be challenging**: Distinguishing between physiological and pathological LVH can be challenging, especially in highly trained athletes[4][6]. The upper limit of physiologic cardiac hypertrophy is not well defined, and LVWT values above 16 mm may be considered pathological[4][6].

4. **Age at start of endurance training may affect LVH patterns**: The age at which endurance training is started may affect the patterns of LVH in middle-aged runners[3]. A study found that runners who started endurance training at a younger age had more concentric LVH, while those who started at an older age had more eccentric LVH[3].

5. **LVH in runners may require further evaluation**: If LVH is suspected in a runner, further evaluation may be necessary to rule out underlying heart disease[1][4][6]. This may include an electrocardiogram (ECG), echocardiogram, or other tests as recommended by a healthcare provider.

In summary, LVH is a common finding in runners and other endurance athletes, but it's important to differentiate between physiological and pathological LVH. If LVH is suspected, further evaluation may be necessary to rule out underlying heart disease.

Citations:
[1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.114.009362
[2] Left ventricular hypertrophy in athletes, a case-control analysis of interindividual variability
[3] https://www.internationaljournalofcardiology.com/article/S0167-5273(18)31477-3/abstract
[4] Left ventricular hypertrophy in athletes
[5] Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and ultra-endurance running - two incompatible entities? - Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance
[6] The Athlete Grey Zone: Distinguishing Pathologic From Physiologic Left Ventricular Hypertrophy - American College of Cardiology

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Anabolic steroid use has been associated with left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) in several studies[1][2][4][5][6]. Here are some key points about LVH in anabolic steroid users based on the search results:

1. **Anabolic steroids can induce LVH**: Anabolic steroids are known to induce LVH, which is a pathological form of LVH due to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy[1][2][4].

2. **LVH in anabolic steroid users can mimic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy**: The pattern and severity of LVH in anabolic steroid users can mimic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy[2].

3. **LVH in anabolic steroid users may not always be associated with impaired left ventricular function**: A study found that anabolic steroid use was not associated with LVH or clinically detectable systolic and diastolic dysfunction in weightlifters[3].

4. **Other performance-enhancing drugs may also contribute to LVH**: Growth hormone excess has been associated with LVH, while anabolic steroids have been associated with both myocardial hypertrophy and focal fibrosis[4].

5. **LVH in anabolic steroid users may require further evaluation**: If LVH is suspected in an anabolic steroid user, further evaluation may be necessary to rule out underlying heart disease[5][6]. This may include an electrocardiogram (ECG), echocardiogram, or other tests as recommended by a healthcare provider.

In summary, anabolic steroid use has been associated with LVH, which is a pathological form of LVH due to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. LVH in anabolic steroid users may mimic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and may require further evaluation to rule out underlying heart disease.

Citations:
[1] Effects of anabolic steroid use on myocardial perfusion in body-builders: a quantitative cardiovascular magnetic resonance Study - Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance
[2] Cardiac effects of anabolic steroid use amongst recreational body builders - a CMR study - Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance
[3] Left ventricular function is not impaired in weight-lifters who use anabolic steroids
[4] Cardiomyopathy induced by performance enhancing drugs in a competitive bodybuilder | Heart
[5] https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/S0735-1097(21)04352-7
[6] https://journals.humankinetics.com/previewpdf/journals/ijatt/10/6/article-p25.xml

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) induced by anabolic steroid use may not always present with specific signs and symptoms. However, in some cases, individuals may experience the following:

1. **Shortness of breath**: Anabolic steroid-induced LVH can lead to reduced cardiac function, which may result in shortness of breath, especially during physical exertion[6].

2. **Lightheadedness**: Reduced blood flow and impaired cardiac function can cause lightheadedness or dizziness[6].

3. **Visual disturbances**: Some individuals may experience visual disturbances, such as photopsia (flashes of light)[6].

4. **Nosebleeds (epistaxis)**: Epistaxis, or nosebleeds, have been reported in individuals with anabolic steroid-induced LVH[6].

It's important to note that these signs and symptoms are not specific to LVH induced by anabolic steroid use and can be associated with other cardiovascular conditions as well. Additionally, LVH may not always present with noticeable symptoms, especially in the early stages. Regular cardiovascular screening, including electrocardiograms (ECGs) and echocardiograms, is crucial for detecting and monitoring LVH in anabolic steroid users[6].

If anabolic steroid use is suspected or confirmed, it is essential to work closely with a healthcare provider to monitor cardiovascular health and manage any potential risks or complications.

Citations:
[1] Serious cardiovascular side effects of large doses of anabolic steroids in weight lifters
[2] Cardiac effects of anabolic steroid use amongst recreational body builders - a CMR study - Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance
[3] Effects of anabolic steroid use on myocardial perfusion in body-builders: a quantitative cardiovascular magnetic resonance Study - Journal of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance
[4] Left ventricular function is not impaired in weight-lifters who use anabolic steroids
[5] Cardiomyopathy induced by performance enhancing drugs in a competitive bodybuilder | Heart
[6] https://journals.humankinetics.com/previewpdf/journals/ijatt/10/6/article-p25.xml

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Why would @Nelson Vergel have a bad case of LVH at this point?

It has gotten better after I stopped higher-dose nandrolone and got very focused on controlling my blood pressure. It took me three years after cessation. I get a full array of cardiology tests every year. Also, HIV+ people have a 4x higher chance of dying of cardiovascular disease than controls.

I measure my BP once per morning and before bed. I also weigh myself every morning to know when I am holding water. In one day, I can gain 3 pounds of water if I go to eat Italian or Mexican !!

 

[tareload]

I personally believe, based on my own research, that taking say 300mg of testosterone per week will not affect a man’s health negatively to even a moderate degree. Possibly not even to a mild degree.

Feel free to share so I can ratchet my already abusive 180 mg/week (just increased) up to 300 mg/week indefinitely.

That is quite the blanket statement to make. All men? Any age? Any pre-existing conditions? Any arrythmias? Only 18 to 25 year olds in good health? Hematocrit, blood pressure, autonomic dysfunction? You make it all sound so simple. No concern over condition of endothelial function, systemic vascular resistance in an individual? 300 mg/week...harmless. sounds like Rouzier with his erythrocytosis bit. Of course there you agreed how silly his blanket statement was.

Let's take @Nelson Vergel ...he is a man. Let's apply 300 mg/week of testosterone to him. Harmless? Not even a mild or moderate effect? Let's ask @Nelson Vergel why he does not use 300 mg/week shall we?

 

[Gman86]

Feel free to share so I can ratchet my already abusive 180 mg/week (just increased) up to 300 mg/week indefinitely.

That is quite the blanket statement to make. All men? Any age? Any pre-existing conditions? Any arrythmias? Only 18 to 25 year olds in good health? Hematocrit, blood pressure, autonomic dysfunction? You make it all sound so simple. No concern over condition of endothelial function, systemic vascular resistance in an individual? 300 mg/week...harmless. sounds like Rouzier with his erythrocytosis bit. Of course there you agreed how silly his blanket statement was.

Let's take @Nelson Vergel ...he is a man. Let's apply 300 mg/week of testosterone to him. Harmless? Not even a mild or moderate effect? Let's ask @Nelson Vergel why he does not use 300 mg/week shall we?

No ur right. I put it in a way that’s way too much of a blanket statement. It’s just a lot of work to always put it in a way where I have to consider everyone as an individual, and consider everyone’s possible health issues that could result in them being at higher risk for further health issues using something like 300mg of test per week, than someone in an overall good state of health.

I should say that I only see someone using 300mg of test per week as a mild risk to their health, if they’re very diligent with their diet, exercise routine, minimizing stress, optimizing their sleep, are able to maintain healthy vitals, are aware of what health markers they need to really try and keep in a healthy range, and how to keep those said health markers in a healthy range, as well as not having any current health issues that could be made worse by using such a dose of testosterone. Basically someone like myself lol. But obv not everyone is going to be in the same state of health, and on top of all these factors. Which is why the risks with using higher dosages of test increase, the less ideal the factors I mentioned above are

It’s just all a balance. A guy using 300mg of test per week that is on top of keeping all the factors I mentioned ideal will have a longer and healthier life than someone using 100mg of test per week that isn’t staying on top of keeping all those variables ideal. In my opinion of course

 

[tareload]

A guy using 300mg of test per week that is on top of keeping all the factors I mentioned ideal will have a longer and healthier life than someone using 100mg of test per week that isn’t staying on top of keeping all those variables ideal

For the sake of not being "annoying" I will leave that one alone.

Of course you leave out door numbers 3....100 mg/week plus staying on top of all else

 

[Gman86]

For the sake of not being "annoying" I will leave that one alone.

Of course you leave out door numbers 3....100 mg/week plus staying on top of all else

That my friend is what we call the best of both worlds! And is the route that I would obv highly advise everyone to take if they’re motivated enough for it. Take the minimum effective dose that makes them happy, and try to optimize all other lifestyle factors the best that they can. The human body, in its current state of evolution, is well equipped to live around 120 years. Godspeed to everyone in their pursuit to live as long as possible, and be as happy as possible throughout that time!

 

[Belekas]

Yesterday ordered some good supplements Dr Thomas O'Connor aka TheAnabolicDoc recommends for his ABCDs and they will be delivered today. While I'm waiting I'm watching Nelson talk about Nandrolone/Deca. Have that ordered as well and will come in 1 month timeframe, more or less.

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[FunkOdyssey]

Yesterday ordered some good supplements Dr Thomas O'Connor aka TheAnabolicDoc recommends for his ABCDs and they will be delivered today.

What supplements did you get?

 

[Belekas]

Omega 3 fish oil liquid 900ml​

NOW Vitamin C-1000 Complex - Buffered with 250mg Bioflavonoids​

NOW Potassium Chloride Powder​

Jarrow Curcumin Phytosome (Meriva), 500mg​

Also will be getting Ubiquinol 200mg but waiting for a good discount as have a good source with mad discounts from time to time so I hunt.

Nothing fancy.

I know you said Potassium Chloride is harsh on the gut but I just got it in case I will need to raise levels quick thus I know that other forms like citrate are only for maintenance and don't work like Chloride does.

Also got some Dr Bests Iron as well but thats for my girl unless I'll need some later on. Had to pick a buffered Vitamin-C supplement to be more gentle on my gut so picked this one as had a great 60% discount, same for Curcumin. See if they don't irritate my gut going slowly forward.

Also got some Vitamin D3+K2 jellies which I have been taking for a while now. Was contemplating to get Cod Liver Oil or Omega 3 but went with Omega 3 as that is what I have used before when I had lowest BP ever. As I have logs, photos for the last 10 years with all my food, supplements, measurements and readings so it's easy for me to go back and see what I was eating and taking at that time.

I'm trying to watch as much AnabolicDoc videos as I can since I'm paying for it and today will be joining him on Zoom to discuss my situation even though I think that its the Sustanon who is giving me bad experience.