"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Belekas]

Really interesting watch here on how he treats high blood pressure and helped a lot of guys to get it back into the healthy range, come off bp medications and maintain healthy levels. Before trying BP medications I will do what he suggests. Here's the full video by Taeian Clark.

 

[zancek0]

Hey @zancek0 back to your question in another thread.

I have noticed my joints are cracking a lot more since going Carnivore. Also my girl has noticed the same since we removed most grains, breads, pastas, etc. She eats raw beef, cheese, tomatoes, some raw eggs in her fruit shake and minimal amounts of carbs in same shake for recovery and digests better then ever. So yesterday we had a chat and she said exactly the same. Thats interesting as pretty much I thought it should be the opposite effect when removing most carbs from most meals. But the proof is in the pudding for whatever its worth.

Btw, have you checked your e2 levels before and after carnivore? Low carb diet is associated with decreased aromatase afaik.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Btw, have you checked your e2 levels before and after carnivore? Low carb diet is associated with decreased aromatase afaik.

Low carb reduces free T (if you're natural and not using TRT) which we know reflects reduced T production. I'm not sure how people are concluding aromatase expression is reduced on carnivore, but if it is based on measured E2 values, thats probably just reflecting the lower free T. Just like you can become somewhat hypothyroid on low carb diets, I think the lack of carbs signals the body that famine is present, so both reproductive hormones and metabolism are turned down.

 

[zancek0]

Low carb reduces free T (if you're natural and not using TRT) which we know reflects reduced T production. I'm not sure how people are concluding aromatase expression is reduced on carnivore, but if it is based on measured E2 values, thats probably just reflecting the lower free T. Just like you can become somewhat hypothyroid on low carb diets, I think the lack of carbs signals the body that famine is present, so both reproductive hormones and metabolism are turned down.

Low carb would also decrease 5AR. Many enzymes in various metabolic pathways require NADPH as a cofactor but aromatase is known to have the highest NADPH demands (3 whole NADPH molecules to convert test to e2). And you can't have NADPH without "sugar", carbs, it kinda is sugar itself.
Your point makes sense, though. I think however that specifically aromatase gets most affected on low carb diets (but that would depend again on how the body would reregulate expression of other enzymes to ensure overall proper function of the body).

 

[Gman86]

Low carb reduces free T (if you're natural and not using TRT) which we know reflects reduced T production. I'm not sure how people are concluding aromatase expression is reduced on carnivore, but if it is based on measured E2 values, thats probably just reflecting the lower free T. Just like you can become somewhat hypothyroid on low carb diets, I think the lack of carbs signals the body that famine is present, so both reproductive hormones and metabolism are turned down.

I think they theorize that receptor sensitivity increases on carnivore. Because even if certain hormones do go down on carnivore, people end up feeling and performing better than ever. It’s all very interesting.

I’ve been watching a lot of Anthony Chaffee vids lately, and he said he doesn’t see sex hormones decrease in anyone he knows on carnivore that gets their levels checked. I have seen Paul Saladino report his sex hormones decreased on strict carnivore tho. I want to say Shawn baker’s test levels aren’t very high, yet he feels and functions great, in all areas, according to him, and looks great and continues to break physical records for his age group. I want to say in rowing, but I could totally be wrong about the specific sport

 

[zancek0]

I think they theorize that receptor sensitivity increases on carnivore. Because even if certain hormones do go down on carnivore, people end up feeling and performing better than ever. It’s all very interesting.

I’ve been watching a lot of Anthony Chaffee vids lately, and he said he doesn’t see sex hormones decrease in anyone he knows on carnivore that gets their levels checked. I have seen Paul Saladino report his sex hormones decreased on strict carnivore tho. I want to say Shawn baker’s test levels aren’t very high, yet he feels and functions great, in all areas, according to him, and looks great and continues to break physical records for his age group. I want to say in rowing, but I could totally be wrong about the specific sport

I agree, that's a good point. I suppose it would be ER expression that would get especially upregulated due to the potential decrease in overall aromatase activity.
It might be that explanation for decreased joint clicking etc. upon adding carbs in OP's case doesn't concern hormones that much.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I think they theorize that receptor sensitivity increases on carnivore. Because even if certain hormones do go down on carnivore, people end up feeling and performing better than ever. It’s all very interesting.

I’ve been watching a lot of Anthony Chaffee vids lately, and he said he doesn’t see sex hormones decrease in anyone he knows on carnivore that gets their levels checked. I have seen Paul Saladino report his sex hormones decreased on strict carnivore tho. I want to say Shawn baker’s test levels aren’t very high, yet he feels and functions great, in all areas, according to him, and looks great and continues to break physical records for his age group. I want to say in rowing, but I could totally be wrong about the specific sport

I am a little bit skeptical about the increased receptor sensitivity explanation. We have definitely seen problems with women reporting irregular or absent periods on keto / carnivore which is a clear sign of reduced fertility and reproductive trouble. I am a big fan of carnivore diets so don't get me wrong, however, it seems unlikely that there is all rainbows and no downside. Insulin signalling really gets the reproductive juices flowing, along with all the negatives it causes, as it signals energy availability is good and gives the green light to procreate.

 

[Belekas]

Btw, have you checked your e2 levels before and after carnivore? Low carb diet is associated with decreased aromatase afaik.

No I haven't.

 

[Belekas]

Personally 2-3 weeks in Carnivore and my stomach issues went down 95% but I could't handle the low energy and feeling like death. Perhaps I should have held longer but I had enough of all this as I have a lot going on in my life and was getting tough. My libido never took a hit was as good as on high-carb diet I've used for the last 20 years or so.

Right now I'm around one week in after reintroducing carbs like Jasmine rice and White Potato up to 200g/day and can manage and digest that pretty good. I still eat some meals strict Carnivore like beef, and some with added Cheese, and it works great. First time today I tried some honey bread with dates and walnuts and was fine. Will continue to eat what works and enjoy life as well by having some more variety of what I can digest. Tried orange yesterday and also was not too bad.

Carnivore been great to reset my gut when nothing else worked so I'm happy and looking forward in starting my Antibiotic treatment regiment soon once they arrive from Europe.

 

[Gman86]

I am a little bit skeptical about the increased receptor sensitivity explanation. We have definitely seen problems with women reporting irregular or absent periods on keto / carnivore which is a clear sign of reduced fertility and reproductive trouble. I am a big fan of carnivore diets so don't get me wrong, however, it seems unlikely that there is all rainbows and no downside. Insulin signalling really gets the reproductive juices flowing, along with all the negatives it causes, as it signals energy availability is good and gives the green light to procreate.

Ya I’ve heard of that happening as well. But in all the cases I’ve seen, where they report what theyre eating, they’re never eating enough fat/ calories.

When women are doing full carnivore, whilst consuming enough healthy fats and total calories, I can’t think of one anecdote where they reported anything other than having periods that lasted a very short amount of time, were basically pain/ cramp free, became pregnant very easily/ quickly, and had amazing pregnancy experiences overall

the only mainstream doc that advocates for the carnivore diet, whilst also talking about the importance of carbs/ insulin signaling, is dr Paul Saladino. I personally think he’s one of the most intelligent diet gurus/ lifestyle gurus in the internet, so I always take everything he says very seriously. Im currently not sure who’s correct tho. Whether he’s correct, or people like Dr Shawn baker, Dr Anthony Chaffee and Dr Ken Berry are correct when they say that carbs/ frequent and substantial insulin signaling is necessary to be as healthy as a current human can get, as far as diet goes. It’s all extremely interesting stuff, and I look forward to eventually finding out who’s correct. Until then I personally don’t know which theory is correct. My gut wants to go with the docs that advocate for full carnivore all year round, indefinitely, tho. The evolutionary data just seems to line up better with what Dr Shawn baker, Dr Anthony chaffee and dr Ken Berry are saying/ advocating for. The real world results that I’ve seen reading and listening to thousands of anecdotes at this point also seem to point to full carnivore being the most ideal diet for humans. But I’m still very open to the things that Paul Saladino advocates for. He’s just so intelligent, and has a great mind for looking at and figuring things out like this, that it’s hard to ever disregard his thoughts/ opinions

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I think they theorize that receptor sensitivity increases on carnivore. Because even if certain hormones do go down on carnivore, people end up feeling and performing better than ever. It’s all very interesting.

I’ve been watching a lot of Anthony Chaffee vids lately, and he said he doesn’t see sex hormones decrease in anyone he knows on carnivore that gets their levels checked. I have seen Paul Saladino report his sex hormones decreased on strict carnivore tho. I want to say Shawn baker’s test levels aren’t very high, yet he feels and functions great, in all areas, according to him, and looks great and continues to break physical records for his age group. I want to say in rowing, but I could totally be wrong about the specific sport

Also, I am not familiar with Anthony Chaffee, but a common mistake people make is only looking at total T on keto/carnivore, which is usually good. You have to look at free T, because on keto typically SHBG will go way up, free T down, and total stays relatively stable or even increases a bit. Laypeople think the good total T values are a good thing, but around here we understand free T is what actually matters.

Derek from more plates more dates did a good video on this:

 

[Belekas]

Paul Saladino has been ripped to shreds by Prof Bart Kay in numerous videos and he declined every invitation Prof Bart has sent him for a live debate to back up his claims and what he talks on his videos. So I take him with a grain of salt. Personally I don't believe that high fat diet with lots of carbs from honey or whatever is a healthy thing especially for diabetic people as he preaches. But like I said to each his own: )

 

[Gman86]

Personally 2-3 weeks in Carnivore and my stomach issues went down 95% but I could't handle the low energy and feeling like death. Perhaps I should have held longer but I had enough of all this as I have a lot going on in my life and was getting tough. My libido never took a hit was as good as on high-carb diet I've used for the last 20 years or so.

Right now I'm around one week in after reintroducing carbs like Jasmine rice and White Potato up to 200g/day and can manage and digest that pretty good. I still eat some meals strict Carnivore like beef, and some with added Cheese, and it works great. First time today I tried some honey bread with dates and walnuts and was fine. Will continue to eat what works and enjoy life as well by having some more variety of what I can digest. Tried orange yesterday and also was not too bad.

Carnivore been great to reset my gut when nothing else worked so I'm happy and looking forward in starting my Antibiotic treatment regiment soon once they arrive from Europe.

Just watched this vid on his opinions on why most people fail doing carnivore. Or at least fail the beginning/ transition into it. Maybe check it out. He could be onto something

he basically says that most people‘s bodies are used to a good amount of carbs, and not a ton of healthy fats. So when they go zero carb their body produces too much insulin, because that’s what it’s been used to, resulting in people going hypoglycemic and feeling like crap

he also says that the drastic increase in fats on carnivore can cause the loose bowels that some report at the beginning of going carnivore. He basically advocates people transition into carnivore and no carbs and high fats, opposes to just going straight into it from a standard diet

 

[Gman86]

Also, I am not familiar with Anthony Chaffee, but a common mistake people make is only looking at total T on keto/carnivore, which is usually good. You have to look at free T, because on keto typically SHBG will go way up, free T down, and total stays relatively stable or even increases a bit. Laypeople think the good total T values are a good thing, but around here we understand free T is what actually matters.

Derek from more plates more dates did a good video on this:

Ya anytime u chronically decrease insulin levels/ become more insulin sensitive, SHBG should theoretically go up. And vice versa if u have chronically elevated insulin levels/ are insulin resistant

checkout Anthony Chaffee’s stuff if u have time. I just got into his stuff maybe 5-6 months ago, but I would say he’s my current favorite source for info on diet/ carnivore. He’s very similar to Paul Saladino, as far as his intelligence and ability to express his views in a very intelligent and digestible way, and i really like that he has a really good balance of creating his views/ opinions based on studies and evolution, as well as having a really good grasp on what plants purpose is. He also has a lot of knowledge on what many species of animals eat and do not eat, not just humans. But that knowledge clearly aids to his ability to decipher what humans shouldn't and shouldn’t eating. Really can’t say enough about the guy. Highly encourage anyone to check him out, if diet is a topic ur interested in. He also has so many great interviews on his channel with actual people that have benefited from the carnivore diet. Was watching one yesterday with a guy that‘s been on carnivore for 40+ years, and this morning I watched one where a guy was vegan for 21+ years and then switched to carnivore. And another one the other day where an 82 year old woman has been on carnivore for 65+ years. She looked like she was in her late 50’s/ early 60’s at most

 

[Gman86]

Paul Saladino has been ripped to shreds by Prof Bart Kay in numerous videos and he declined every invitation Prof Bart has sent him for a live debate to back up his claims and what he talks on his videos. So I take him with a grain of salt. Personally I don't believe that high fat diet with lots of carbs from honey or whatever is a healthy thing especially for diabetic people as he preaches. But like I said to each his own: )

Ya I loved watching those vids lol. I personally don’t agree either. I actually cut honey out of my diet completely recently. Well almost completely. Only consume 40g of it in my post workout shake 3x/ week now. Been doing a lot of research into fructose lately, and the dangers of consuming too much of it. Apparently fructose acts the same as ethanol once it’s process by our bodies. So if that’s true, that obv can’t be good lol. Here’s a couple vids that I thought explained the issue pretty well

(Anthony Chaffee on fructose being bad for us)

(doctor lectures about sugar and fructose)

 

[Belekas]

Just watched this vid on his opinions on why most people fail doing carnivore. Or at least fail the beginning/ transition into it. Maybe check it out. He could be onto something

he basically says that most people‘s bodies are used to a good amount of carbs, and not a ton of healthy fats. So when they go zero carb their body produces too much insulin, because that’s what it’s been used to, resulting in people going hypoglycemic and feeling like crap

he also says that the drastic increase in fats on carnivore can cause the loose bowels that some report at the beginning of going carnivore. He basically advocates people transition into carnivore and no carbs and high fats, opposes to just going straight into it from a standard diet

Yeah that can be the case. I started Carnivore right out the gate after you suggested with 200+g of fat and 200g+ protein a day without any problem or bowel issues. Took my first shit 2 or 3 days ago and it was like pretty much nothing lol I know my sister tried doing the same and first day after a few Beef meals had to lay down as it fucked her up real good and she has no intention to ever do it again lol. But thats where slower transitioning really comes into play IMHO as well. Althoug she has a sensitive liver and something with bile as well so possibly all the extra increased fat intake messed her up. Always can do leaner cuts of meat and just take it slow and steady. Add some healthy fats or transition to fattier cuts. There are many ways to skin the cat. Dedication and persistence is the key. Nothing worth having comes easy.

 

[Gman86]

Yeah that can be the case. I started Carnivore right out the gate after you suggested with 200+g of fat and 200g+ protein a day without any problem or bowel issues. Took my first shit 2 or 3 days ago and it was like pretty much nothing lol I know my sister tried doing the same and first day after a few Beef meals had to lay down as it fucked her up real good and she has no intention to ever do it again lol. But thats where slower transitioning really comes into play IMHO as well. Althoug she has a sensitive liver and something with bile as well so possibly all the extra increased fat intake messed her up. Always can do leaner cuts of meat and just take it slow and steady. Add some healthy fats or transition to fattier cuts. There are many ways to skin the cat. Dedication and persistence is the key. Nothing worth having comes easy.

Yup, that’s what he was saying. Something about increasing fats too fast and bile. So that could have been the issue with ur sister

 

[Belekas]

 

[bixt]

I'm not sure how people are concluding aromatase expression is reduced on carnivore.

Perhaps indirectly. Carnivore -> low carbs -> less storage of fat & more burning of fat (body recomp) -> less aromatase (which is present in fat) -> less aromatisation.

 

[Gman86]

Perhaps indirectly. Carnivore -> low carbs -> less storage of fat & more burning of fat (body recomp) -> less aromatase (which is present in fat) -> less aromatisation.

Great synopsis. Everyone on carnivore basically reverts back to the body fat level that they had when they were in their late teens/ early twenties. And we know that the more body fat a man stores, the more aromatase enzymes they will have. And vice versa. So I think ur probably spot on. At least with one aspect of why E2 levels could theoretically drop a bit when someone goes carnivore.