"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[FunkOdyssey]

Most carnivores end up doing similarly well when adding things like white rice, organic raw honey and fruit. So I see u being able to tolerate these foods soon, if not already. But might be good to try and stay strict carnivore for a bit longer to heal a bit more, like u said

good thing about white rice and raw honey is they’re both very low in fiber. And then if u add in fruit, maybe just try to stick to low fiber fruit at first. I mostly just eat melons atm. Mostly watermelon and honeydew. When I stick to my diet I have zero gas. But anytime i eat some foods I know arent the best, I instantly get some gas. It’s a good gauge to go imo, as far as knowing whether ur body does well with the foods ur eating or not. Gas literally means ur not digesting food properly. So I think it’s crazy that vegetarians and vegans just get used to having gas, and don’t see it as an issue. Most vegans turned carnivore will tell u that they had the worst gas ever when they were vegan. Imo the excess gas while eating vegan/ vegetarian is the only indicator u need to know it’s not an ideal diet for the human body. Fiber is literally not needed for an optimal/ healthy diet. So I also laugh when people take a fiber supplement to get more in each day

I am in total agreement with everything Gman has said about diet throughout this thread.

 

[Belekas]

Most carnivores end up doing similarly well when adding things like white rice, organic raw honey and fruit. So I see u being able to tolerate these foods soon, if not already. But might be good to try and stay strict carnivore for a bit longer to heal a bit more, like u said

good thing about white rice and raw honey is they’re both very low in fiber. And then if u add in fruit, maybe just try to stick to low fiber fruit at first. I mostly just eat melons atm. Mostly watermelon and honeydew. When I stick to my diet I have zero gas. But anytime i eat some foods I know arent the best, I instantly get some gas. It’s a good gauge to go imo, as far as knowing whether ur body does well with the foods ur eating or not. Gas literally means ur not digesting food properly. So I think it’s crazy that vegetarians and vegans just get used to having gas, and don’t see it as an issue. Most vegans turned carnivore will tell u that they had the worst gas ever when they were vegan. Imo the excess gas while eating vegan/ vegetarian is the only indicator u need to know it’s not an ideal diet for the human body. Fiber is literally not needed for an optimal/ healthy diet. So I also laugh when people take a fiber supplement to get more in each day

Oh yes no doubt that I will do Carnivore for some foreseeable future. Also I always had the same philosophy re fiber when was building my physique over the years and always eat low fiber most of the time. About fruit watermelons and melons are my favourites lol and used to use honey on my rice pretty much all the time post-workout. So basically we on the same page, salute! What type of rice you eat? Most of the time I used Jasmine rice without any problems and some Basmati as well. Also loved boiled potatoes but they became more problematic as I got older and couldn't eat that much as before so sticked to white rice, good bread and some oats. Oats also became harder with age so probably won't go back to them. I do love me some proper sourdough bread. That shit used to digest as quick as rice fwiw. Yes the more I see ppl try to eat a "balanced" diet incl grains and vegs the more problems they get. Some do it without problems and digest great even in their 60s. One way or another- the more food groups one eats and mixes the more prone to issues probably they are. Some can eat whatever with whatever all their lifes and never get anything and others eat "balanced" and get in trouble. And that "balanced" is a joke i'd say unless you have no issues, no diseases, and feel great, but still.

 

[Belekas]

I am in total agreement with everything Gman has said about diet throughout this thread.

Thanks guys! This thread is becoming a fountain of knowledge!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

What type of rice you eat? Most of the time I used Jasmine rice without any problems and some Basmati as well.

If you check out the fast tract diet, the author uses glycemic index of carbs to differentiate those that are more easily digested versus those that end up feeding your gut bacteria. It basically turns the mainstream advice that you should prefer low GI complex carbs on its head.

Jasmine rice is much more easily digested than basmati rice and this is due to the ratio of amylopectin to amylose. Amylopectin digests much faster and more completely. These differences are reflected in their respective GI values.

 

[Belekas]

If you check out the fast tract diet, the author uses glycemic index of carbs to differentiate those that are more easily digested versus those that end up feeding your gut bacteria. It basically turns the mainstream advice that you should prefer low GI complex carbs on its head.

Jasmine rice is much more easily digested than basmati rice and this is due to the ratio of amylopectin to amylose. Amylopectin digests much faster and more completely. These differences are reflected in their respective GI values.

Makes complete sense and feels good as I've always was focusing on fast burning carbs and mostly Jasmine rice. So based on this Sticky rice should digest even better? Great info and good to know.

 

[Belekas]

A Review of Zinc-L-Carnosine and Its Positive Effects on Oral Mucositis, Taste Disorders, and Gastrointestinal Disorders - PMC

Zinc-L-carnosine (ZnC), also called polaprezinc known as PepZin GI™, is a chelated compound that contains L-carnosine and zinc. It is a relatively new molecule and has been associated with multiple health benefits. There are several studies that ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Belekas]

Tomorrow is my T shot day and I'm dropping the dose to 50mg/week split e4d because of gut treatment. As we know now that T most likely makes gut harder to heal given some research papers shared by members of the forum that I respect. So will run 50mg/week during the course of treatment and see how things go.

Today day #4 and pain returned after breakfast when I was finishing my workout and doing my starimaster cardio and leaning forward a bit probably giving pressure to my chest and that irritated area. So my bad here. Also had some eggs with ground beef for breakfast so might have been eggs as well. And also had some water from the tap in the gym as well as mine ran out. Also I drank Aloe Vera in the morning and took some Glutamine. Will put those aside now and eat only beef. See what happens tomorrow. Still good progress as 3 days I was pretty much 80-90% and used zero meds. Will do 4xcaps Zinc Carnosine per day as well.

Energy wise I feel like death. Zero carbs is making me feel empty and mood wise depressed i'd say. Training very light as feel like shit. Not a fun feeling but all for the sake of healing. I'd kill for a bowl of rice or watermelon lol Sleeping not too bad but wake up feeling like death. Probably lost around 10kg since this pain came back again. Put on 10kg in 6 months, give it all back in 2. Fuck this shit. Lifes unfair hehe But anyway I'm gonna suck it up and keep on fighting one day at a time!

 

[sammmy]

I completed the 14 day H. Pylori eradication protocol:

- every 6 hours, 1 hour before meals: 10mg Rabeprazole (so it is absorbed before Bismuth)
- every 6 hours with meals: 500mg Amoxicillin, 120mg Bismuth Oxide (as a Bismuth Subcitrate De-Nol)
- 1500mg Metronidazole/day, spread out over the 4 dosing times: 250mg, 500mg, 500mg, 250mg

This is similar to the drug formulation Pylera, but the Tetracycline is substituted with Amoxicillin, and the PPI is dosed 4 times in 24 hours instead of twice daily. The only PPI that I have seen in studies dosed in that way is 10mg Rabeprazole, so don't assume any PPI or dose will do.

Side effects:

- nausea from day 5 to 14. The suspect here is Rabeprazole or the reduction of digestion caused by it. It is also possible that the antibiotics are irritating to the intestinal mucosa, which manifests as nausea. The nausea was so nasty that I was considering stopping the regimen after day 7. Then I started taking 25mg Meclizine, which suppressed the nausea somewhat but was making me drowsy. One time I tried 1/8 teaspoon ginger powder and it did suppress the nausea - ginger may interact with the drugs and may irritate the stomach mucosa, so I used it only one time instead of Meclizine. The last days I started eating only bread, steamed microwaved broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, salt, and olive oil and that magically decreased the nausea to more tolerable level so I didn't have to take anything for it.

- occasional brown tea colored urine - Metronidazole is noted in studies to do that. It doesn't seem to be kidney damage because there were no kidney aches, no change in urination frequency and volume, and the brown coloring stopped the moment I finished the course.

- frequent headaches - suspecting Rabeprazole or Metronidazole. I had to take 400mg Ibuprofen on several days to suppress the headaches.

- forgetfulness - forgetting to take doses, the dose I took, or forgetting to write it down. I suspect Metronidazole since it is known to affect the nervous system - can cause neuropathy.

My diet was very bland and mostly carbohydrates: bread, pasta, mashed potatoes from potato flakes powder (no milk), steamed vegetables, salt, olive oil, red pepper, some rice (but felt heavy nausea on it).

Do not eat milk, whey protein, milk products (cheese, yogurt, butter) since the calcium in them may neutralize some antibiotics.

I will continue the Bismuth Subcitrate for additional 2-4 weeks - it helps the intestinal mucosa heal. I started taking probiotic pearls in the last few days of the antibiotics and will continue taking them daily - these protect from a surge of Clostridium Difficile, which can cause severe diarrhea after antibiotics.

 

[Belekas]

I completed the 14 day H. Pylori eradication protocol:

- every 6 hours, 1 hour before meals: 10mg Rabeprazole (so it is absorbed before Bismuth)
- every 6 hours with meals: 500mg Amoxicillin, 120mg Bismuth Oxide (as a Bismuth Subcitrate De-Nol)
- 1500mg Metronidazole/day, spread out over the 4 dosing times: 250mg, 500mg, 500mg, 250mg

Thats a more aggressive protocol then mine back in February and looks a lot more reasonable considering how hard to kill this thing is. Doing PPIs 4x is a smart idea. I've done only twice and that wasn't enough. Also I did only 1000mg Metrodizanole and no Bismuth Oxide. Told docs my shits severe but they never listened and gave me protocol like im first time doing this shit smh.

This is similar to the drug formulation Pylera, but the Tetracycline is substituted with Amoxicillin, and the PPI is dosed 4 times in 24 hours instead of twice daily. The only PPI that I have seen in studies dosed in that way is 10mg Rabeprazole, so don't assume any PPI or dose will do.

Not sure we have Pylera here but will ask doc if they appear as they are taking the piss already. My protocol had Rabeprazole 20mg 2x/day fwiw. Still have some left and lots of other *prazoles.

Side effects:

- nausea from day 5 to 14. The suspect here is Rabeprazole or the reduction of digestion caused by it. It is also possible that the antibiotics are irritating to the intestinal mucosa, which manifests as nausea. The nausea was so nasty that I was considering stopping the regimen after day 7. Then I started taking 25mg Meclizine, which suppressed the nausea somewhat but was making me drowsy. One time I tried 1/8 teaspoon ginger powder and it did suppress the nausea - ginger may interact with the drugs and may irritate the stomach mucosa, so I used it only one time instead of Meclizine. The last days I started eating only bread, steamed microwaved broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, salt, and olive oil and that magically decreased the nausea to more tolerable level so I didn't have to take anything for it.

Wow, sorry you had to get through it. Never had it that bad. Yet couldn't eat basically anythting doc said and got mad chest pain throughout all the treatment. So it failed from get go it seems.

frequent headaches - suspecting Rabeprazole or Metronidazole. I had to take 400mg

sucks as out stomach lining is fucked already without needing more meds but IIWII.

- forgetfulness - forgetting to take doses, the dose I took, or forgetting to write it down. I suspect Metronidazole since it is known to affect the nervous system - can cause neuropathy.

Thats a weird one. These meds really mess shit up.

My diet was very bland and mostly carbohydrates: bread, pasta, mashed potatoes from potato flakes powder (no milk), steamed vegetables, salt, olive oil, red pepper, some rice (but felt heavy nausea on it).

Still ok if you could tolerate all that? Wish I could. Once you get pain from drinking water then you know you're in deep shit.

Do not eat milk, whey protein, milk products (cheese, yogurt, butter) since the calcium in them may neutralize some antibiotics.

Yes, remember this one properly, and will do the same if decide to run one more round of treatment.

I will continue the Bismuth Subcitrate for additional 2-4 weeks - it helps the intestinal mucosa heal. I started taking probiotic pearls in the last few days of the antibiotics and will continue taking them daily - these protect from a surge of Clostridium Difficile, which can cause severe diarrhea after antibiotics.

Very interesting and I'm looking to run it as well once it's here. Hope the probiotics sit good with you and makes you feel better. How are your symptoms right now? And thank you for such an extensive post. Really great that you share. Kudos!

 

[sammmy]

The probiotic pearls (6 strains, protected from stomach acid with 3 layers) before the eradication treatment used to give me body aches and nausea (intestinal irritation and immune activation) before the eradication treatment. Now I take 1 pearl at midnight and it I don't experience noticeable body aches or nausea. I hope it stays that way.

 

[Belekas]

The probiotic pearls (6 strains, protected from stomach acid with 3 layers) before the eradication treatment used to give me body aches and nausea (intestinal irritation and immune activation) before the eradication treatment. Now I take 1 pearl at midnight and it I don't experience noticeable body aches or nausea. I hope it stays that way.

Sounds thats its working. What kind are they?

 

[sammmy]

I take Nature's Way probiotic pearls Complete - it is a mix of 6 strains, 1 billion live cultures.

In the last days of the H. Pylori regiment, I did 2 retention enemas with another probiotic mix of 12 strains, 30 billion live cultures by Nature Made, because I felt Clostridium Difficile surging at one point - appears initially as intestinal gurgling and irritation around the navel. Most people would not need those but I had Clostridium Difficile resurging before I started the H. Pylori eradication. The first enema calmed the intestines, although it doesn't penetrate very deeply in the colon and causes local diarrhea on the next day, which shows the probiotic is live.

 

[Belekas]

I take Nature's Way probiotic pearls Complete - it is a mix of 6 strains, 1 billion live cultures.

In the last days of the H. Pylori regiment, I did 2 retention enemas with another probiotic mix of 12 strains, 30 billion live cultures by Nature Made, because I felt Clostridium Difficile surging at one point - appears initially as intestinal gurgling and irritation around the navel. Most people would not need those but I had Clostridium Difficile resurging before I started the H. Pylori eradication. The first enema calmed the intestines, although it doesn't penetrate very deeply in the colon and causes local diarrhea on the next day, which shows the probiotic is live.

You def know what you're doing so more power to you and really hope it works. You doing one cap/day and will hold for 30 days or? I might get them here as well later down the road after I finish Zinc Carnosine and Bismuth when it comes. Still no HP test results from GP so no idea if the bacteria still present.

 

[sammmy]

I'm doing one probiotic pearl per day, that will be indefinitely.

I plan to do the enemas with the powdered probiotic twice weekly for 2 - 3 months and then discontinue. They are a bit of a hassle - you have to raise your lower body above your head for 15mins, so gravity pulls the liquid through the first segment of the large intestine, and then lie on your right side - an attempt to pull some liquid through the second segment but I am not convinced that is is actually getting there.

 

[Belekas]

The actions of bismuth in the treatment of Helicobacter pylori infection

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1365-2036.11.s1.13.x#:~:text=Bismuth%20monotherapy%20is%20effective%20in,pylori.

Adverse events with bismuth salts for Helicobacter pylori eradication: Systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

AIM: To assess the safety of bismuth used in Helicobacter pylori (H pylori) eradication therapy regimens. METHODS: We conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis. MEDLINE and EMBASE were searched (up to October 2007) to identify randomised ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Approach to antibiotic treatment in patients with persistent Helicobacter pylori infection

UpToDate

www.uptodate.com

 

[Belekas]

I'm doing one probiotic pearl per day, that will be indefinitely.

I plan to do the enemas with the powdered probiotic twice weekly for 2 - 3 months and then discontinue. They are a bit of a hassle - you have to raise your lower body above your head for 15mins, so gravity pulls the liquid through the first segment of the large intestine, and then lie on your right side - an attempt to pull some liquid through the second segment but I am not convinced that is is actually getting there.

That sounds like a lot of work, but usually doing the hard yards is what matters at the end. How are you feeling now if I may ask?

 

[sammmy]

The drug induced nausea, headaches, and brown urine stopped. This is my second day after completing the antibiotics. I am still careful what I eat - bread, steamed vegetables, yesterday had some plain yogurt, olives, today will have some eggs. No stomach irritation but I haven't tried acidic fruits yet - these were causing problems in the past.

I will try eating meat (was causing nausea before) in maybe 2 weeks. It takes some time for the stomach/intestinal mucosa to heal so don't go wild with eating whatever you want the moment you finish the course.

 

[Belekas]

Little update.

So today came back stool sample results and it confirmed that HP is still at large. Tried to talk the doc into giving me Rifabutin as @Nelson Vergel suggested but she didn't agree as they have to follow guidelines and in UK they don't prescribe it even as a last line of defense when everything else failed. SMH. I said that I did 2 protocols already and they both failed. She had no other options just prescribe me Antibiotics that I haven't tried and a standart generic 7 day protocol with PPi 2x day. It'a fucking joke especially when someones been at it for a loooong time and suffers 10/10 chest pain. They have no idea. Still no bueno. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$. Not doctors but drug dealers I'd say. Sorry if any docs reading this but IIWII. So fuck knows what to do. I can function eating meat but still some days better some worse. I'll be getting Bismuth Oxide so maybe add it to the protocol and fucking do it one more time for the 7 days. I see no other reasonable options here.

This is the protocol my doc prescribed:

Different from the previous two. I also have a lot of PPi's at home so will increase to 4x day as @sammmy suggested. Not much else I can do and can't even get meds for 14 days treatment if I wanted to hold longer. But anyway gotta play the cards dealt and make the best of this situation whatever that might be. Going to cook some meat, have a slow meal and think it through. Will keep you guys updated.

Best regards,
Bel

 

[Belekas]

Since yesterday I've titrated down my T protocol to 50mg/week split in 2 injections 25mg/each E4D. Might even skip the next dose to get lower faster. My gut always feels best on the injection day right before my shot and next day after the injection my pain def gets worse. So it reacts absolutely to T, I have no more questions or doubts about that.

So have no other options just to run 3rd round of HP treatment protocol with some modifications I went through in my previous post. Shame GP can't prescribe a more agressive protocol considering how severe my issue is. If this one fails, then they won't be able to help me as they are following zeee guidelinezzz even if they all generic, same as before and do absolutely nothing for the issue lol

 

[Belekas]

So guys little update:

Today will be having my 2nd shot of the week at 25mg. I'm using Sustanon250 for those that don't follow my journey. Total for the week is just 50mg. This is 5x less then I used for many years back in the day. I cut down from 80mg/week because I'm healing my gut issues and don't want T to interfere with that as per some papers that were posted in my thread and discussed before.

Since starting Carnivore my chest pain has decreased like 90% I'd say straight from day one. This is fucking incredible and amazing and I can't still believe this shit. I was dealing with chronic pain for decade+. Here we are. Only 9 odd days in and I can function, sleep and enjoy my life without meds. I still have H Pylori at large and still can't workout as I'm getting exercise intollerance. Some anxiety there as well. Another thing is increased RHR and some BP increase as well, even though I'm very lean, I'm doing my cardio, etc. Might be Carnivore transition effecting it? Although H pylori has links do CV disease and increased RHR and BP(I believe). Papers are out there for anyone interested. Also I've read a lot of poor souls suffering from same over Reddit. So even though I can eat now and manage my life say 85-95% better and without pain most days, with minor flare ups here and there, I still need to get rid of this bacteria. It won't go away with just food, even though I'm not sure, maybe strict Carnivore for longer would actually starve the bug and make it go sleep, or kill it? I have no idea, this is very interesting and a grey area.

Wanted to say thanks to @Gman86 once again for talking me into trying it, so salute brother, you really have helped me on this! As a matter of fact 2 last days I have tried to introduce one fruit - that is sweet af big cherries we found in Polish shop. My girl was having them and I said fuck it lets try and you know what, for 2 days having around 150g each day was absolutely fine and went down just like that, zero bad symptoms, also next day fine. Also yesterday I tried whipping some double cream with some Splenda and a few cherry flawor drops for taste. Went down just like that as well and was before sleep also. Slept great. Woke up pain free and still havent had breakfast for like 3 hours as I'm typing this fasted. Starting to feel just a bit discomfort just now so def it works for me as well. Had some blue cheese which was good as well but not that good as hard cheese. Also been having some lamb liver as well. Going to prepare some ground beef for breakfast now and start the day right till I cure H Pylori and can start re-introducing few foods, as we discussed earlier

Hope you guys are killing it!

Best regards,
Bel

p.s. also shout out to all the Gs who helped me since I came to this forum @readalot @FunkOdyssey @sammmy and my bad if I forgot anyone. Salute champs!