Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer

[Charliebizz]

I'm sure you probably posted this somewhere, but are you one of the guys with low shbg?

Yes I run around 12-15

 

[SSHSSA74]

Most people I have talked to that are similar to us. (struggles with trt) have used scrotal application. Again you were 3 days in. Those numbers are irrelevant. You still had injectables in your system. You really can’t say you ”feel” dht and e2 are a problem when you dont give anything a chance.

A few guys on this very forum have stated how all those numbers were irrelevant for them once dialed in on t cream. And they felt great. Look up Tman and Eli. (Two off the top of my head). I know what’s it’s like to feel bad and never want to go back to that but you’re just chasing your tail. You will never be able to right cream off because you haven’t given it a fair shot. I know I did the same thing for over 2 years. I’ve finally had enough. I got rid of all my injectable t and nasal gel and only have cream in the house so I had no chance of switching things up lol. i Did mess with the dose a little too much at first but once I made it to labs. And see how I feel with decent numbers. I know what direction to go if I feel like changing dose. Again it’s your body. You do what you want. But you’re not doing yourself any favors by messing around so much. (Trust me I know). Thankfully my wife and a good friend had enough and got all in my shit about it and I’m doing much better on cream only.

Yes I run around 12-15

Me too. thanks. I saw you said it took several weeks and ups and downs to get it right. About how many weeks, how is your libido and what is your current dosing? I'm like you. If shit ain't working, I am too quick to try something else and not stick it out long enough. Thanks for your reply.

 

[SSHSSA74]

I’m applying to scrotum. 2 clicks am one pm. Last set of labs. My dht typically runs 40-50. On cream it was 179. Range 12-65.

Is this still your protocol? And how many mg's per click? thanks.

 

[Fortunate]

Gents, for those of you who are applying cream twice a day, I am curious how you go about your second application? If you still in your work setting, do you sneak off to a bathroom and toss the stuff on? I suppose this would be easier if you are doing scrotal, cause you just gotta drop your pants. But, if you are applying to your shoulders, you gotta take your darn shirt off. Then you gotta let it dry for a few minutes.

If you throw it on the scrotum, do you just hang in the bathroom for a few minutes to let it dry Before you pull your drawers up?

I have had some decent luck this week (cross fingers) on cream. I find I do need a second dose around 3-4 PM. I kinda chuckle when I think about dudes running off somewhere to apply cream and was curious how you are doing it.

I am considering applying a slightly larger dose, maybe to the scrotum in the AM to see if I can avoid the second dose. But, I am afraid that will just raise peaks and metabolites and probably won’t mitigate the feeling that I need a second dose later in the day. Thoughts?

 

[Charliebizz]

Gents, for those of you who are applying cream twice a day, I am curious how you go about your second application? If you still in your work setting, do you sneak off to a bathroom and toss the stuff on? I suppose this would be easier if you are doing scrotal, cause you just gotta drop your pants. But, if you are applying to your shoulders, you gotta take your darn shirt off. Then you gotta let it dry for a few minutes.

If you throw it on the scrotum, do you just hang in the bathroom for a few minutes to let it dry Before you pull your drawers up?

I have had some decent luck this week (cross fingers) on cream. I find I do need a second dose around 3-4 PM. I kinda chuckle when I think about dudes running off somewhere to apply cream and was curious how you are doing it.

I am considering applying a slightly larger dose, maybe to the scrotum in the AM to see if I can avoid the second dose. But, I am afraid that will just raise peaks and metabolites and probably won’t mitigate the feeling that I need a second dose later in the day. Thoughts?

I personally very loose with second dose. Some times I apply it at 5pm some times 8pm. No difference in how I feel. I think that’s another thing guys obsess about for no reason. Just cause your serum levels dip for a little while doesn’t mean you’re going to feel bad. (If they are even dipping too low). legate going on in the blood isn’t always reflective of what’s going on in the cells. Try not to overthink it.

 

[Charliebizz]

Gents, for those of you who are applying cream twice a day, I am curious how you go about your second application? If you still in your work setting, do you sneak off to a bathroom and toss the stuff on? I suppose this would be easier if you are doing scrotal, cause you just gotta drop your pants. But, if you are applying to your shoulders, you gotta take your darn shirt off. Then you gotta let it dry for a few minutes.

If you throw it on the scrotum, do you just hang in the bathroom for a few minutes to let it dry Before you pull your drawers up?

I have had some decent luck this week (cross fingers) on cream. I find I do need a second dose around 3-4 PM. I kinda chuckle when I think about dudes running off somewhere to apply cream and was curious how you are doing it.

I am considering applying a slightly larger dose, maybe to the scrotum in the AM to see if I can avoid the second dose. But, I am afraid that will just raise peaks and metabolites and probably won’t mitigate the feeling that I need a second dose later in the day. Thoughts?

You’re also already looking to change something. You’re going to forever spin your wheels if you don’t stick to something. Pick a dose, go full scrotal. split it am and pm wait minimum 6 weeks. Every time you mess with something the clock starts all over. And remember not everything is testosterone related either. Healthy people get tired in the afternoon too !!

 

[Fortunate]

You’re also already looking to change something. You’re going to forever spin your wheels if you don’t stick to something. Pick a dose, go full scrotal. split it am and pm wait minimum 6 weeks. Every time you mess with something the clock starts all over. And remember not everything is testosterone related either. Healthy people get tired in the afternoon too !!

Appreciate the thoughts. But, you didn’t answer me, brother!

 

[Charliebizz]

Appreciate the thoughts. But, you didn’t answer me, brother!

I answered in post #285!!

Im personally very loose with second dose. Some times I apply it at 5pm some times 8pm. No difference in how I feel. I think that’s another thing guys obsess about for no reason. Just cause your serum levels dip for a little while doesn’t mean you’re going to feel bad. (If they are even dipping too low). whats going on in the blood isn’t always reflective of what’s going on in the cells. Try not to overthink it.

 

[Fortunate]

I answered in post #285!!

Im personally very loose with second dose. Some times I apply it at 5pm some times 8pm. No difference in how I feel. I think that’s another thing guys obsess about for no reason. Just cause your serum levels dip for a little while doesn’t mean you’re going to feel bad. (If they are even dipping too low). whats going on in the blood isn’t always reflective of what’s going on in the cells. Try not to overthink it.

Really what I was asking is the logistical nature of how you apply it if you are in your work setting. Wasn’t really asking about timing or dosing. Based on your comments above, I suspect you are not applying it in the work setting, but are doing it when you get home.

Natesto is incredibly discrete and the tubes are small. It’s easy to apply it in any setting. You can even do it while you are driving. Cream takes a little more time, effort, and planning in my opinion. I was just wondering how others go about doing it.

No big deal. Don’t worry about it.

 

[Charliebizz]

Really what I was asking is the logistical nature of how you apply it if you are in your work setting. Wasn’t really asking about timing or dosing. Based on your comments above, I suspect you are not applying it in the work setting, but are doing it when you get home.

Natesto is incredibly discrete and the tubes are small. It’s easy to apply it in any setting. You can even do it while you are driving. Cream takes a little more time, effort, and planning in my opinion. I was just wondering how others go about doing it.

No big deal. Don’t worry about it.

My point is why do it at work. Just do it before bed

 

[Fortunate]

For any cream users, has anyone found better success applying to non-scrotal areas? I spent about two weeks applying some to the scrotum and some to the shoulder. I wound up with a number of terrible symptoms that convinced me I was way supraphysiologic.

I am not sure I am ready to throw in the towel on cream, but I am pretty convinced that scrotal application is a no-go.

 

[Fortunate]

Since I am getting crickets on the above question, I'll ask another one: do we think anastrozole indirectly increases DHT? I found one paper that says yes, but is this generally accepted as true and reproducible?

@madman, can you help me with a forum search question? I tried putting in the terms "anastrozole" and "DHT" in the keywords. My hope was to find threads that include both terms. Is there something special I need to do to find posts that include both terms and not one or the other?

 

[RobRoy]

It seems you're doing the best to complicate something that is totally uncomplicated. You can apply the cream anywhere that you have skin. Literally anywhere (face, shoulders, neck, chest, legs, etc...). You can achieve success or good levels applying it anywhere it's just a matter of finding the dose that raises levels to resolve symptoms based on whjeere you are applying it. We simply use the scrotal application for two reasons and they are that you get better levels there because it's thin skinned and highly vascular and it reduces our risk of transference. Since transference requires skin to skin contact with a scrotal application we should've completely eliminated any risk of transference to children or animals. So we are really just talking about our partners and there are multiple ways to avoid transference.
This issue with a second application is a non-issue for most mature intelligent men. It literally takes 10 to 15 seconds to apply it to the scrotum area and then you can go about your business. When we're traveling in the airport etc. just walk into a stall and take 15 seconds and you're done. The twice daily application is not a hard and fast rule as many men enjoy just a once daily application. It's a personal choice. Literally taking 15 seconds twice a day should not be a hassle for anyone. Anyone that tells me that it's too time-consuming etc. what I hear is that I'm too lazy to do it or that I don't have a real enough problem but I'm willing to take literally less than a minute twice a day to improve my problem.
And with regard to your question about anastrozole. Anytime you do anything to free up testosterone you are going to increase it's active metabolites because that's how testosterone works. Testosterone works through its active metabolites so if you increase free testosterone you will increase DHT and estradiol.

 

[Fortunate]

It seems you're doing the best to complicate something that is totally uncomplicated. You can apply the cream anywhere that you have skin. Literally anywhere (face, shoulders, neck, chest, legs, etc...). You can achieve success or good levels applying it anywhere it's just a matter of finding the dose that raises levels to resolve symptoms based on whjeere you are applying it. We simply use the scrotal application for two reasons and they are that you get better levels there because it's thin skinned and highly vascular and it reduces our risk of transference. Since transference requires skin to skin contact with a scrotal application we should've completely eliminated any risk of transference to children or animals. So we are really just talking about our partners and there are multiple ways to avoid transference.
This issue with a second application is a non-issue for most mature intelligent men. It literally takes 10 to 15 seconds to apply it to the scrotum area and then you can go about your business. When we're traveling in the airport etc. just walk into a stall and take 15 seconds and you're done. The twice daily application is not a hard and fast rule as many men enjoy just a once daily application. It's a personal choice. Literally taking 15 seconds twice a day should not be a hassle for anyone. Anyone that tells me that it's too time-consuming etc. what I hear is that I'm too lazy to do it or that I don't have a real enough problem but I'm willing to take literally less than a minute twice a day to improve my problem.
And with regard to your question about anastrozole. Anytime you do anything to free up testosterone you are going to increase it's active metabolites because that's how testosterone works. Testosterone works through its active metabolites so if you increase free testosterone you will increase DHT and estradiol.

Since i consider myself both mature and intelligent, this should be no problem!

 

[Cataceous]

Since I am getting crickets on the above question, I'll ask another one: do we think anastrozole indirectly increases DHT? I found one paper that says yes, but is this generally accepted as true and reproducible?
...

It's a straightforward "yes" for men with functioning HPTAs because of the stimulation caused by lower estradiol; higher testosterone production means more DHT.

With TRT and HPTA suppression the subtle effects dominate, and I can only speculate that the answer is "probably", but I doubt it's significant. One factor is that isolated aromatase inhibition would tend to increase free testosterone by putting downwards pressure on its metabolic clearance rate. If free testosterone increases then DHT should also go up. Given that estradiol is only about 0.3-0.6% of testosterone and DHT is about 10% we're looking at a pretty small potential effect. Another factor is that estradiol has a little inhibitory activity at 5ar. The loss of estradiol then would put a little upwards pressure on the MCR for testosterone, downwards pressure on free testosterone and upwards pressure on DHT. Thus you have competing pressures on free testosterone, so it's hard to predict where it would end up. Nonetheless, I'd guess that the two mechanisms could lead to a small increase in DHT.

 

[RobRoy]

It's a straightforward "yes" for men with functioning HPTAs because of the stimulation caused by lower estradiol; higher testosterone production means more DHT.

With TRT and HPTA suppression the subtle effects dominate, and I can only speculate that the answer is "probably", but I doubt it's significant. One factor is that isolated aromatase inhibition would tend to increase free testosterone by putting downwards pressure on its metabolic clearance rate. If free testosterone increases then DHT should also go up. Given that estradiol is only about 0.3-0.6% of testosterone and DHT is about 10% we're looking at a pretty small potential effect. Another factor is that estradiol has a little inhibitory activity at 5ar. The loss of estradiol then would put a little upwards pressure on the MCR for testosterone, downwards pressure on free testosterone and upwards pressure on DHT. Thus you have competing pressures on free testosterone, so it's hard to predict where it would end up. Nonetheless, I'd guess that the two mechanisms could lead to a small increase in DHT.

When you increase testosterone, you will increase its active metabolites. It’s just pure physiology.

 

[Fortunate]

It's a straightforward "yes" for men with functioning HPTAs because of the stimulation caused by lower estradiol; higher testosterone production means more DHT.

With TRT and HPTA suppression the subtle effects dominate, and I can only speculate that the answer is "probably", but I doubt it's significant. One factor is that isolated aromatase inhibition would tend to increase free testosterone by putting downwards pressure on its metabolic clearance rate. If free testosterone increases then DHT should also go up. Given that estradiol is only about 0.3-0.6% of testosterone and DHT is about 10% we're looking at a pretty small potential effect. Another factor is that estradiol has a little inhibitory activity at 5ar. The loss of estradiol then would put a little upwards pressure on the MCR for testosterone, downwards pressure on free testosterone and upwards pressure on DHT. Thus you have competing pressures on free testosterone, so it's hard to predict where it would end up. Nonetheless, I'd guess that the two mechanisms could lead to a small increase in DHT.

Good stuff. I didn’t read the entire JCEM paper, but it looks like a good design. Randomized and double-blinded. That said, the study population was hypogonadal, but not under treatment. So, like you pointed out, the findings may not translate in those with HPTA suppression.

The reason I asked in the first place was that while on cream, I used a (very small) dose of an AI a few times. A few days after my last AI dose, my resting heart rate skyrocketed and blood pressure spiked. I felt terrible. As I had been applying it for well over five half lives, I assumed that I should have already been at a relative steady state on the cream. So my theory was that the AI indirectly pushed an already high DHT even higher, amplifying the sympathetic nervous system effects. Don’t know. Just speculating, but that was the reason for the question.

I saw some benefit on the cream, and was applying to both the scrotum and shoulder. Many guys reference this paper that suggests that scrotal absorption is 8 times higher than abdominal absorption. Anecdotally, I have heard of guys with free T at extremely high levels with scrotal application and others that struggle to get their levels up no matter where they apply. I was really looking for anecdotes on non-scrotal success stories, as that is where I suspect I will find success.

 

[Charliebizz]

It seems you're doing the best to complicate something that is totally uncomplicated. You can apply the cream anywhere that you have skin. Literally anywhere (face, shoulders, neck, chest, legs, etc...). You can achieve success or good levels applying it anywhere it's just a matter of finding the dose that raises levels to resolve symptoms based on whjeere you are applying it. We simply use the scrotal application for two reasons and they are that you get better levels there because it's thin skinned and highly vascular and it reduces our risk of transference. Since transference requires skin to skin contact with a scrotal application we should've completely eliminated any risk of transference to children or animals. So we are really just talking about our partners and there are multiple ways to avoid transference.
This issue with a second application is a non-issue for most mature intelligent men. It literally takes 10 to 15 seconds to apply it to the scrotum area and then you can go about your business. When we're traveling in the airport etc. just walk into a stall and take 15 seconds and you're done. The twice daily application is not a hard and fast rule as many men enjoy just a once daily application. It's a personal choice. Literally taking 15 seconds twice a day should not be a hassle for anyone. Anyone that tells me that it's too time-consuming etc. what I hear is that I'm too lazy to do it or that I don't have a real enough problem but I'm willing to take literally less than a minute twice a day to improve my problem.
And with regard to your question about anastrozole. Anytime you do anything to free up gtestosterone you are going to increase it's active metabolites because that's how testosterone works. Testosterone works through its active metabolites so if you increase free testosterone you will increase DHT and estradiol.

Fantastic post. I too was an over thinker. And I must say now that I rode out some of the initial “side effects“ of the scrotal cream. I’m loving it. It took me over 2 years of trying it off and on to commit. Looking back it was insane. But that’s what happens when you’re an over thinker and constantly read shit on forums. The piece of mind that transference isn’t an issue to my kids is fantastic. My wife is on t cream here self and levels been stable. Weve had sex or oral sex as fast as 15 minutes after I put on the cream no issues. While I love the forums and the provide great knowledge, they cause way to much overthinking for most people. Just today i Was super busy and just put on my morning dose now at 1.pm. I usually put cream in at 530am. I feel no different. So much of this feeling of crashing and all the complaints are horse shit. When we were healthy in our early 20s and came home from work and laid down on the couch we didn’t say “my t levels must have dropped “

if you feel bad from a difference of 5 mg here and 5mg there of t something else is going on. Can’t always blame testosterone for everything.

 

[RobRoy]

Fantastic post. I too was an over thinker. And I must say now that I rode out some of the initial “side effects“ of the scrotal cream. I’m loving it. It took me over 2 years of trying it off and on to commit. Looking back it was insane. But that’s what happens when you’re an over thinker and constantly read shit on forums. The piece of mind that transference isn’t an issue to my kids is fantastic. My wife is on t cream here self and levels been stable. Weve had sex or oral sex as fast as 15 minutes after I put on the cream no issues. While I love the forums and the provide great knowledge, they cause way to much overthinking for most people. Just today i Was super busy and just put on my morning dose now at 1.pm. I usually put cream in at 530am. I feel no different. So much of this feeling of crashing and all the complaints are horse shit. When we were healthy in our early 20s and came home from work and laid down on the couch we didn’t say “my t levels must have dropped “

if you feel bad from a difference of 5 mg here and 5mg there of t something else is going on. Can’t always blame testosterone for everything.

Best post I have read in a long time. You are correct on all points. Congratulations!

 

[Charliebizz]

Good stuff. I didn’t read the entire JCEM paper, but it looks like a good design. Randomized and double-blinded. That said, the study population was hypogonadal, but not under treatment. So, like you pointed out, the findings may not translate in those with HPTA suppression.

The reason I asked in the first place was that while on cream, I used a (very small) dose of an AI a few times. A few days after my last AI dose, my resting heart rate skyrocketed and blood pressure spiked. I felt terrible. As I had been applying it for well over five half lives, I assumed that I should have already been at a relative steady state on the cream. So my theory was that the AI indirectly pushed an already high DHT even higher, amplifying the sympathetic nervous system effects. Don’t know. Just speculating, but that was the reason for the question.

I saw some benefit on the cream, and was applying to both the scrotum and shoulder. Many guys reference this paper that suggests that scrotal absorption is 8 times higher than abdominal absorption. Anecdotally, I have heard of guys with free T at extremely high levels with scrotal application and others that struggle to get their levels up no matter where they apply. I was really looking for anecdotes on non-scrotal success stories, as that is where I suspect I will find success.

If you feel like scrotal was bringing your levels too high. Why not just lower the dose? you’ll save money by having to apply less cream. And also no risk of transference. my dht and estrogen were the same on scrotal vs non scrotal when t levels were similar. Again you’re completely overthinking this. From reading too much bs on the forums. People in this forum are always looking for problems when switching protocol’s And it breeds all this nonsense and overthinking. Trust me I know better than anyone. I’m nuts go back and look at my post history. Anyway. Stop worrying about e2 and dht. Just focus on finding a dose where you feel good at.