Testosterone propionate supposedly the best ester?

[madman]

No - my answer to the water retention was to buy a larger wedding band. I'm also experimenting with taking 6.25 mg aromasin as needed. I'm sure lowering the dose would work to reduce water retention, but considering that is basically the only negative side effect I am experiencing right now, I am not inclined to reduce the dose. BP is normal.

Something significant to report about sleep: at 25 mg a day of prop, I am sleeping very soundly and deeply and getting my normal 90 min+ of deep sleep per night and 6 1/2 - 7 hours total sleep. At 175 mg enanthate weekly, I was only getting around 5 hours of sleep and not more than 60 min of deep sleep. There was just too much constant stimulation around the clock. The lack of quality sleep and constant stimulation contributed to a persistent "wired but tired" state.

I'll get blood work done in a couple weeks when I'm back from a work trip.

Still caught up on that more T is better mentality I see LOL!

Always jumping in head first.

25 mg TP daily (175 mg T/week) is a whopping starting dose.

That would be the equivalent of 200 mg TE/TC per week.

Must be that lil fry sidekick you have buddied up with polluting your mind here!

 

[RotnGun]

You're one of the only people I've found who has actually tried Test Phenylprop. What was your experience with it?

I would say positive. I have read and studied peoples experiences on excelmale with their experiences with test E, test C, sustanon, and test prop before I ventured onto TRT myself. I was looking for the very best possible outcome for myself when I joined (and researched) this forum. I have noticed that most people seem to get the most positive experience from test prop. But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast. I read something from one particular member, I beleive it was @Cataceous that said that test phenylpropionate would follow the the body's natural diurnal rhythm the closest. So, I decided to try test phenylpropionate. I have been very satisfied with it. But I feel I have been taking it in a manner that has held me back. I have normally done my IM injections of test phenylpropionate (and test prop) right before bed. I am starting to think that taking it upon waking (waking for me is early afternoon due to my obscure work hours) would be the better way for me to go. I am currently taking test propionate for my TRT. I currently do my shots befor bed. But I am going to change that around shortly and try out injecting test phenylpropionate upon waking. Hopefully I can get a better sleep from injecting test phenylpropionate in the morning. From what I've seen on this forum, is that most people seem to have overall better positive results from injecting test prop in the morning, as oppose to injecting before bed. Personally myself, I find that I don't necessarily get the best sleep if I inject test prop (or test pjenylpropionate) right before bed. My suggestion for anyone to try test prop or pheylpropionate is to inject IM, and inject somewhere between 10 to 15mg/day upon waking to start off with. After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I would say positive. I have read and studied peoples experiences on excelmale with their experiences with test E, test C, sustanon, and test prop before I ventured onto TRT myself. I was looking for the very best possible outcome for myself when I joined (and researched) this forum. I have noticed that most people seem to get the most positive experience from test prop. But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast. I read something from one particular member, I beleive it was @Cataceous that said that test phenylpropionate would follow the the body's natural diurnal rhythm the closest. So, I decided to try test phenylpropionate. I have been very satisfied with it. But I feel I have been taking it in a manner that has held me back. I have normally done my IM injections of test phenylpropionate (and test prop) right before bed. I am starting to think that taking it upon waking (waking for me is early afternoon due to my obscure work hours) would be the better way for me to go. I am currently taking test propionate for my TRT. I currently do my shots befor bed. But I am going to change that around shortly and try out injecting test phenylpropionate upon waking. Hopefully I can get a better sleep from injecting test phenylpropionate in the morning. From what I've seen on this forum, is that most people seem to have overall better positive results from injecting test prop in the morning, as oppose to injecting before bed. Personally myself, I find that I don't necessarily get the best sleep if I inject test prop (or test pjenylpropionate) right before bed. My suggestion for anyone to try test prop or pheylpropionate is to inject IM, and inject somewhere between 10 to 15mg/day upon waking to start off with. After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection

I've tried test phenylpropionate also, only for about a week, as a bridge between the enanthate I was running before and the prop I'm on now, at 25 mg daily. Not enough to come to any accurate conclusions obviously. I can only report that it felt friendly, well-tolerated, and not substantially different from enanthate. Probably some differences would have revealed themselves if I stayed on it longer and let more of the prior enanthate wash out.

Bear in mind that phenylprop is a higher weight ester than anything else we commonly use, with less testosterone per milligram injected, so doses may need adjustment.

If you are someone that responds well to an enanthate/prop blend, and are tired of the hassle associated with the blending process, TPP might be perfect for you.

 

[Pnw0031]

Still caught up on that more T is better mentality I see LOL!

Always jumping in head first.

25 mg TP daily (175 mg T/week) is a whopping starting dose.

That would be the equivalent of 200 mg TE/TC per week.

Must be that lil fry sidekick you have buddied up with polluting your mind here!

As always: blood tests, blood tests, blood tests.

Regardless of your protocol, ester, crazy dosage. Get blood test results after every protocol change

 

[Jerajera]

I would say positive. I have read and studied peoples experiences on excelmale with their experiences with test E, test C, sustanon, and test prop before I ventured onto TRT myself. I was looking for the very best possible outcome for myself when I joined (and researched) this forum. I have noticed that most people seem to get the most positive experience from test prop. But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast. I read something from one particular member, I beleive it was @Cataceous that said that test phenylpropionate would follow the the body's natural diurnal rhythm the closest. So, I decided to try test phenylpropionate. I have been very satisfied with it. But I feel I have been taking it in a manner that has held me back. I have normally done my IM injections of test phenylpropionate (and test prop) right before bed. I am starting to think that taking it upon waking (waking for me is early afternoon due to my obscure work hours) would be the better way for me to go. I am currently taking test propionate for my TRT. I currently do my shots befor bed. But I am going to change that around shortly and try out injecting test phenylpropionate upon waking. Hopefully I can get a better sleep from injecting test phenylpropionate in the morning. From what I've seen on this forum, is that most people seem to have overall better positive results from injecting test prop in the morning, as oppose to injecting before bed. Personally myself, I find that I don't necessarily get the best sleep if I inject test prop (or test pjenylpropionate) right before bed. My suggestion for anyone to try test prop or pheylpropionate is to inject IM, and inject somewhere between 10 to 15mg/day upon waking to start off with. After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection

Thanks for the feedback, "But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast." is what I noticed for myself and I'm also hoping Phenylprop will be the sweet spot.

My ability to sleep all but disappeared when I tried taking Prop at night, so I can relate to that. I think given how fast those shorter esters are metabolized in most men, early morning injections are going to be your best bet.

"After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection". I think @Cataceous and the much missed @Readalot extrapolated based on a few data points that the peak for Prop was closer to 3 hours post injection. Still 8 hours is probably very close to peak values, and for Phenylprop it might actually be right there.

Looking forward to your results, I hope morning Phenylprop works for you! I'm going to start soon as well and will update the thread with my results.

 

[madman]

I would say positive. I have read and studied peoples experiences on excelmale with their experiences with test E, test C, sustanon, and test prop before I ventured onto TRT myself. I was looking for the very best possible outcome for myself when I joined (and researched) this forum. I have noticed that most people seem to get the most positive experience from test prop. But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast. I read something from one particular member, I beleive it was @Cataceous that said that test phenylpropionate would follow the the body's natural diurnal rhythm the closest. So, I decided to try test phenylpropionate. I have been very satisfied with it. But I feel I have been taking it in a manner that has held me back. I have normally done my IM injections of test phenylpropionate (and test prop) right before bed. I am starting to think that taking it upon waking (waking for me is early afternoon due to my obscure work hours) would be the better way for me to go. I am currently taking test propionate for my TRT. I currently do my shots befor bed. But I am going to change that around shortly and try out injecting test phenylpropionate upon waking. Hopefully I can get a better sleep from injecting test phenylpropionate in the morning. From what I've seen on this forum, is that most people seem to have overall better positive results from injecting test prop in the morning, as oppose to injecting before bed. Personally myself, I find that I don't necessarily get the best sleep if I inject test prop (or test pjenylpropionate) right before bed. My suggestion for anyone to try test prop or pheylpropionate is to inject IM, and inject somewhere between 10 to 15mg/day upon waking to start off with. After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection

This is false!

Androderm patch applied before bed holds that title!

Even then natty endogenous T levels GRADUALLY RISE OVERNIGHT peaking in the early AM.

Whether one uses TC/TE/TPP/TP levels will start rising fairly quick within the first 2 hours post-injection as there will be an initial burst release.

No TRT formulation other than the T-patch (Androderm) applied before bed most closely mimics the natural endogenous 24-hour circadian rhythm of a healthy young male




post# 8-13

Labcorp VS Quest

I had my total testosterone checked at Quest and Labcorp exactly 24 hours apart. Quest was 149 Labcorp was 1018 I take a daily compounded cream and test 24 hours after application How can the numbers be so far apart?

www.excelmale.com

 

[RotnGun]

Thanks for the feedback, "But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast." is what I noticed for myself and I'm also hoping Phenylprop will be the sweet spot.

My ability to sleep all but disappeared when I tried taking Prop at night, so I can relate to that. I think given how fast those shorter esters are metabolized in most men, early morning injections are going to be your best bet.

"After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection". I think @Cataceous and the much missed @Readalot extrapolated based on a few data points that the peak for Prop was closer to 3 hours post injection. Still 8 hours is probably very close to peak values, and for Phenylprop it might actually be right there.

Looking forward to your results, I hope morning Phenylprop works for you! I'm going to start soon as well and will update the thread with my results.

I have made a couple threads on my experience with test phenylpropoonate. You can check out my blood work in these threads I listed below. My total test does not peak too fast nor does it decrease to fast

Very high free test at 9mg test per day

@Systemlord I forgot to mention I had about 4 thyroid lab test done over the course of one year and each test yielded similar results as the lab test I posted above (post 18). Your hematocrit and red blood cell look a bit low for somebody with your testosterone levels, iron deficiency will...

www.excelmale.com

My new blood test on test phenylpropionate

Okay, so last time I did my blood work on my daily test phenylpropipnate (IM), I was at 9mg a day. I did my blood test at 14 hours post injection. My total test was 730 ng/dlL. My free test was 17.2 ng/dL (Albumin was 4.5 on a later blood test). This was back in August 24 and I posted my results...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Jerajera]

I have made a couple threads on my experience with test phenylpropoonate. You can check out my blood work in these threads I listed below. My total test does not peak too fast nor does it decrease to fast

Very interesting, I would've expected much more variation from Phenylprop. To give you an idea I was getting around a 50% drop from peak to trough Free T levels on pure Test Prop.

I wonder whether the hCG somehow contributed to stabilizing your levels.

I actually just switched today from 15mg/day Test E to 15mg/day Test Phenylprop (+ 10mg/day Primo E).

In a few weeks I'll test peak and trough levels and will update this thread.

 

[RotnGun]

Very interesting, I would've expected much more variation from Phenylprop. To give you an idea I was getting around a 50% drop from peak to trough Free T levels on pure Test Prop.

I wonder whether the hCG somehow contributed to stabilizing your levels.

I actually just switched today from 15mg/day Test E to 15mg/day Test Phenylprop (+ 10mg/day Primo E).

In a few weeks I'll test peak and trough levels and will update this thread.

I think I might have an explanation for that. I don't believe its the HCG. But, I have to state that what I say may just be theory.
Normally, I do 60 percent of my injections in the smaller muscle groups, such as traps, rear delts, side delts, front delts, chest, small and large tricips, ventro glutes, ect, and eventually move into injecting into the larger muscle groups. All injections I do are IM. There is evidence that if injections are done in the smaller muscle groups,, then that the injection depot will disperse at a slower rate. I purposely will inject test prop or test phenylpropionate in the smaller muscle groups about 10 days before I get tested. Im sure that me having a higher trough level at the 12 hour mark (as oppose the the 6 hour mark) is due to the slow dispersion of the depot oil in that particular small muscle I inject into.

Also, like I mentioned before, I do my injections right before bed. Once I am sleeping, my metabolism is in a very slow state. Very likely the dispersion of depot oil is taking a longer time of releasing itself from the small muscle due to the fact that I am sleeping and my metabolism is at an all time low during my sleep. This may also be the reason why my trough will be higher at the 12 hour mark (as oppose to the 6 hour mark)

 

[jmbb]

Crotex labs I just don't trust alot of what he says
But I appreciate the self experiments
It's.bullshit that he says 280mg isn't a cycle if your running doses that get you way about levels you would never be able to achieve naturally
3000ng/dl isn't trt
Doesn't mean it will necessarily be bad for him
But still
Don't know how he suddenly thinks he is some trt guru I find that shit hard to accept

He offers a lot of good research and information, but says a lot of contradictory things. Basically whatever protocol he is currently running is the best.

The other issue I noticed is that he talks about how he fixes either his own or his clients issues all the time, but mentions that they're fixed in a week or two and off on their way. He himself rarely sticks to a protocol for more than a month at a time.

The problem with this, as may of us know, is that TRT is about finding long term success. A lot of us can jack up our T or add a bunch of compounds and feel a temporary libido/energy/dopamine boost, but is that going to work for you a few weeks or months later when your body has stabilized, estrogen has caught up, and you've reached a new homeostasis?

I think he's good overall and has interesting content, but I also don't think he's the expert he presents himself to be.

 

[camygod]

He offers a lot of good research and information, but says a lot of contradictory things. Basically whatever protocol he is currently running is the best.

The other issue I noticed is that he talks about how he fixes either his own or his clients issues all the time, but mentions that they're fixed in a week or two and off on their way. He himself rarely sticks to a protocol for more than a month at a time.

The problem with this, as may of us know, is that TRT is about finding long term success. A lot of us can jack up our T or add a bunch of compounds and feel a temporary libido/energy/dopamine boost, but is that going to work for you a few weeks or months later when your body has stabilized, estrogen has caught up, and you've reached a new homeostasis?

I think he's good overall and has interesting content, but I also don't think he's the expert he presents himself to be.

I can't trust his judge of character I'll leave it at that
but I do appreciate his experiments and yes like most sales men I feel he over pembellishes his knowledge in my opinion but I'm not saying I'm a expert either
This isn't being a "hater"
But I feel if people are going public they are entitled to criticism

 

[Forty2]

This is false!

Androderm patch applied before bed holds that title!

Even then natty endogenous T levels GRADUALLY RISE OVERNIGHT peaking in the early AM.

Whether one uses TC/TE/TPP/TP levels will start rising fairly quick within the first 2 hours post-injection as there will be an initial burst release.

No TRT formulation other than the T-patch (Androderm) applied before bed most closely mimics the natural endogenous 24-hour circadian rhythm of a healthy young male




post# 8-13

Labcorp VS Quest

I had my total testosterone checked at Quest and Labcorp exactly 24 hours apart. Quest was 149 Labcorp was 1018 I take a daily compounded cream and test 24 hours after application How can the numbers be so far apart?

www.excelmale.com

Why aren't you using the Androderm patch, Madman?

 

[madman]

Why aren't you using the Androderm patch, Madman?

It was discontinued.

• Allergan (Abbvie) has discontinued Androderm transdermal patches.
• Allergan (Abbvie) was the sole supplier of testosterone transdermal patches.

ANDRODERM (testosterone - film, extended release;transdermal)​

• Manufacturer: ABBVIE
  Approval date: September 29, 1995
  Strength(s): 2.5 MG/24HR (discontinued)
• Manufacturer: ABBVIE
  Approval date: May 2, 1997
  Strength(s): 5 MG/24HR (discontinued)
• Manufacturer: ABBVIE
  Approval date: October 20, 2011
  Strength(s): 2 MG/24HR (discontinued) [RLD], 4 MG/24HR (discontinued) [RLD]

Never had an interest.

Main advantage here would be that it was the only formulation of T which most closely mimics the normal circadian rhythm of a healthy young male!

As I stated in an older thread most men would need the 5 mg/day dose to achieve robust T levels.

If one was content with achieving T levels within the physiological range and dealing with possible skin irritation then I see no reason to not give it a go if it were still available.

I never had an interest as I always had been in to weight training and if you want to take advantage of the body composition benefits of T than injectable is where it's at.

As I stated in a previous thread if your goal is to take advantage of the anabolic properties of T then injectables are where it's at as one can easily attain high/absurdly high trough FT levels.

When it comes to reaping the full anabolic benefits not only is having supra-physiological levels of FT steady-state 24/7 important but also how high you drive up FT levels.

When it comes to packing on size/mass/strength T is king!

ANDRODERM® (TDS)

https://www.androderm.com/about-androderm ANDRODERM® (testosterone transdermal system) is designed to deliver testosterone continuously for 24 hours following application to intact, non-scrotal skin (e.g., back, abdomen, thighs, upper arms). Four strengths of ANDRODERM® are available that...

www.excelmale.com

 

[t_spacemonkey]

I would say positive. I have read and studied peoples experiences on excelmale with their experiences with test E, test C, sustanon, and test prop before I ventured onto TRT myself. I was looking for the very best possible outcome for myself when I joined (and researched) this forum. I have noticed that most people seem to get the most positive experience from test prop. But, at the same time, one thing that I have noticed (from members experiences) is that test prop spikes too fast and decreases too fast. I read something from one particular member, I beleive it was @Cataceous that said that test phenylpropionate would follow the the body's natural diurnal rhythm the closest. So, I decided to try test phenylpropionate. I have been very satisfied with it. But I feel I have been taking it in a manner that has held me back. I have normally done my IM injections of test phenylpropionate (and test prop) right before bed. I am starting to think that taking it upon waking (waking for me is early afternoon due to my obscure work hours) would be the better way for me to go. I am currently taking test propionate for my TRT. I currently do my shots befor bed. But I am going to change that around shortly and try out injecting test phenylpropionate upon waking. Hopefully I can get a better sleep from injecting test phenylpropionate in the morning. From what I've seen on this forum, is that most people seem to have overall better positive results from injecting test prop in the morning, as oppose to injecting before bed. Personally myself, I find that I don't necessarily get the best sleep if I inject test prop (or test pjenylpropionate) right before bed. My suggestion for anyone to try test prop or pheylpropionate is to inject IM, and inject somewhere between 10 to 15mg/day upon waking to start off with. After 8 weeks, get 2 blood test done. One 8 hours past injection and the second at 24 hours past injection

only reason you would want to wait 8 weeks if you switch from Cyp to let it clear. prop reaches steady level by day 3-4 or so. my personal exp. is that I reach rough peak 4h post injection. 2h post it does not show at all. i do subq. i mentioned this couple times i think, but the swings with prop are expectedly large (which is good). for they go between 75 free T to 30 free T at 25mg/d

 

[RotnGun]

He is catching up...

But he does specifically state in that video that only a very few amount of guys will need to go up to that amount of test per week,, such as general non responders to low or medium amounts of test per week. But in his videos, he seems to advocate around a general dose of 125mg to 150ng per week. This is one such video he advocates on low dose test

 

[Seagal]

But he does specifically state in that video that only a very few amount of guys will need to go up to that amount of test per week,, such as general non responders to low or medium amounts of test per week. But in his videos, he seems to advocate around a general dose of 125mg to 150ng per week. This is one such video he advocates on low dose test

I meant he is catching up to what has been discussed in this forum. There is not one dosage/frequency/ester that's best for everyone.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Using Pharmacom test prop. Had to go UGL to find a solvent free formula unfortunately.

I tried some standard 100 mg/mL prop yesterday with benzyl benzoate to compare. I felt more stimulated than normal in the early part of the day, developed the usual LPR / reflux symptoms I get with benzyl benzoate, then energy and mood crashed in the evening. I woke up this morning feeling like crap.

I'm pretty certain the pharmacokinetics are different after this experience, with the solvent accelerating testosterone release from the depot as theorized. I returned to the gentle embrace of solvent-free prop today.

 

[Forty2]

I tried some standard 100 mg/mL prop yesterday with benzyl benzoate to compare. I felt more stimulated than normal in the early part of the day, developed the usual LPR / reflux symptoms I get with benzyl benzoate, then energy and mood crashed in the evening. I woke up this morning feeling like crap.

I'm pretty certain the pharmacokinetics are different after this experience, with the solvent accelerating testosterone release from the depot as theorized. I returned to the gentle embrace of solvent-free prop today.

How is the test prop dissolved with no benzyl benzoate? Is ethyl oleate used instead?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

How is the test prop dissolved with no benzyl benzoate? Is ethyl oleate used instead?

It's only 50 mg/ml. You don't need solvents at low concentrations like that.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Another Cortex video on prop offering more red meat for prop fans. I do wonder about his preference for EOD over ED dosing at higher doses. If anyone is looking for justification to run "absurdly high" doses though, this is your man right here: