Test P improved TRT, libido still at 0 – what next?

[ziegen]

Followed your posts but didn't recall that. Can imagine it must be annoying ppl suggesting things that you already checked.

Don't worry, it's no problem.

Yeah really, really sounds like PFS. I completely understand what you mean. I feel fine for most part too but libido is zero. Coulde be something epigenetically, that's whaytmany now think and studies point in that direction too. But we have treatments to fix it, have you seen this PFS recovery?

So what he did was high dose VPA (sodium valproate) to tackle the epigenetic problem, it's an HDACI, combined with DHB for around 3 months. Then followed with PEA (raises allopregnenalone) and high dose HCG for a month or two.

Another guy called Jasper who had PFS got cured too that way.

You can get PFS like syndrome from a lot of things, seen people get it from SSRI's, accutane, AI's, supplements and herbs,...

The problem with PSSD and PFS is that nobody really knows why it happens, and as such the solution is basically impossible to find. I read a bunch of success stories, some just waited it out for years, others blasted 500mg/week of T to brute force their way through, then you have people who do some real esoteric stuff like the guy in the video. I know nothing about the things he's using or where even to get it from. Overall having PSSD or PFS is bleak. I'll see how this DHT thing pans out until the end of the year and then see what else I can do/try.

 

[Kenp]

Don't worry, it's no problem.


The problem with PSSD and PFS is that nobody really knows why it happens, and as such the solution is basically impossible to find. I read a bunch of success stories, some just waited it out for years, others blasted 500mg/week of T to brute force their way through, then you have people who do some real esoteric stuff like the guy in the video. I know nothing about the things he's using or where even to get it from. Overall having PSSD or PFS is bleak. I'll see how this DHT thing pans out until the end of the year and then see what else I can do/try.

Yeah definitely try the DHT angle first. Seen one PFS recovery with andractim, that's dht gel.

 

[ziegen]

UPDATE 7:

Over two weeks ago I traveled for a full week. When I was on Test E I just took an increased dose on the day of departure and everything was fine. Obviously now that I'm on Test P that is no longer possible. I was traveling with a plane so of course I would've preferred to avoid bringing everything along. The obvious choice was to bring along my home-brewed T cream, which I packed into convenient 30ml tubes. Everything went smoothly and I could start using the cream. I have previously checked that it actually works and my peak was at 1400 ng/dl on 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum. I decided on the same protocol as with my small experiment, so 200mg of cream applied to the scrotum every morning. In terms of how I felt and symptom relief, the transition from Test P + DHT gel to T cream was seamless. To me everything felt exactly the same, there was no drop-off in terms of symptom relief or general well-being. I did notice another benefit though:

• Increased water retention: Now this isn't the water retention or bloating from high E2, but a rather positive one. I've always had to go to the bathroom very often, it seemed like water just passed right through me. Also whenever I was dieting I never noticed losing water weight in the first 3 weeks or so, compared to what happened for most people. During the honeymoon phase of TRT I noticed that I was going to the bathroom once every 2-4 hours instead of once every hour, or even more frequent. It was interesting to see how this "issue" from my youth was also related to hormones, but I lost the effects when I came out of the honeymoon phase, yet now they're suddenly back.

Now I can't say for sure if this is an additional effect of T cream or increased DHT, however I think it's from DHT. After my trip, I went to take some bloods to see what my trough and peaks are, and how well I convert to DHT:

Trough:

• Total T: 123 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 24 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 585 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Peak:

• Total T: 1408 ng/dl (range 220-870 ng/dl)
• E2: 35 ng/L (range 10-45 ng/L)
• DHT: 2340 pg/ml (range 300-850 pg/ml)

Regarding DHT, obviously the use of cream, especially on the scrotal skin, works extremely well. It's insane what a difference it is compared to injections. At peak my DHT is even higher than what it was with Test P + DHT. While I'm not opposed to having pretty high DHT levels at the moment, I do think it would make sense in trying the application of cream to some other place to get them a bit lower for long term use.
Regarding E2, overall it's on the lower side, but I definitely don't feel any negative effects. I did read in some other thread about cream that the E2 doesn't rise exactly linearly with T, that there is some sort of a delay, meaning that E2 isn't actually that low, it's supposed to have a later peak.
Regarding T, well at peak it's about the same as how it was during my experiment, these levels are pretty good. At trough, however, the levels are bad. It's interesting how I felt bad at 84mg/week of Test P, where my trough was in the 300s, yet here, I didn't feel nearly as bad, maybe just a bit tired. I'd say the reason for why I didn't feel too bad was either the quick absorption of the cream and/or higher DHT levels. However I wasn't sure if the lack of energy was related to hormones as I was very active during my trip. With the results of Test P + DHT gel I already suspected that a 2x day application of gels/creams is necessary based on the peak and trough levels. The fact of the matter is that the absorption of the cream is way too fast to apply just once a day. After getting these results I decided on a slightly modified protocol. I started applying 200mg to the scrotum at 9 AM and then I apply an additional 100mg to the scrotum at 6PM. The morning application ensures that I have good levels throughout the day and the evening application makes sure I have a small bump so that my trough isn't too low. With this the overall picture should still be somewhat similar to Test P. 3 days after modifying my protocol I got back my full energy and started feeling even better than with Test P + DHT.

Thoughts on the cream:
I've continued to use of the T cream even now that I'm back, because I honestly really like it. I've put around 1000 needles in me through the years, and it didn't phase me much, but I have to say it feels nice not having to inject, it's like a little break from it all. Maybe someone who injects 1x a week and gets amazing results would find the cream annoying, but with daily injections, the cream is a great alternative. It also carries the additional benefit of giving you proper DHT levels, if you're someone who doesn't have a great conversion on injections. It's very convenient, you can just have it in some container and measure your daily dose with measuring spoons, or you can fill it into small tubes (30-50ml) and fill a 3ml syringe from behind. It's very inconspicuous, you can have it and take it anywhere, nobody will bat an eye. Making it yourself is also incredibly easy and cheap.

 

[Kenp]

@ziegen Any libido improvements?

Also as someone with PFS I have "watery semen", notice anyting in that department too?

 

[Seagal]

Thank you for that detailed analysis. There many reports on testo cream but I think nobody compared to TP + DHT cream.

I start wondering if the reported benefits of HCG are related to increased testicular dht production.

 

[ziegen]

I have added DHT levels at trough in update 7, the company forgot to send them yesterday.

@ziegen Any libido improvements?

Also as someone with PFS I have "watery semen", notice anyting in that department too?

I've been running increased DHT levels for almost 6 weeks now and there have been no libido improvements. I think I can safely say that DHT won't fix my libido issues. Having hormonal fluctuation and now proper DHT levels has fixed around 15 symptoms and my body works better than ever. This is how a proper TRT protocol should feel like. All of these symptoms are minor, and having just 1 of them wouldn't be a big deal, but taking care of all of them is a huge improvement.
Obviously being on TRT I have smaller balls, less semen and it's also less thick. All of these things were far, far worse on Test E. Now that I have hormonal fluctuation I can say that it's still noticeable, but not nearly as much as before. My balls also don't ache as they did with Test E.
Obviously there is something wrong with an unknown factor regarding libido. I'd say it's very much possible that being in an androgen deprived state for multiple years has done some damage/changes to my body. I started TRT 8 years after getting acute symptoms of low T. Maybe long term androgen deprivation does similar things to the body as Finasteride/Accutane/SSRIs do, but not nearly as bad and maybe more localized.

Thank you for that detailed analysis. There many reports on testo cream but I think nobody compared to TP + DHT cream.

I start wondering if the reported benefits of HCG are related to increased testicular dht production.

I also think that DHT plays a vital role in the success of HCG. I have a good enough, but not high, natural conversion of T to DHT, but on injections the conversion usually gets lowered. So in a natural state I had a decent conversion and on injections I had a bad conversion. Now 1000 IU/week of HCG increased my T levels by about 10-15%, however already having quite bad levels (low conversion) of DHT and now adding a small bump of DHT (decent conversion) with HCG, does nothing for me. People who have a better natural conversion and an overall better DHT state will likely get a bigger bump from HCG, which might get them over some limit where they start feeling really good.

 

[Kenp]

Interesting video I saw yesterday:

 

[Mastodont]

If this is the case, that DHT will keep balls in check, how come there is no product for trt that combines test and dht.

 

[Kenp]

@ziegen you from the EU? Had any troubles getting alphagels? Heard he sends from Australia.

 

[ziegen]

@ziegen you from the EU? Had any troubles getting alphagels? Heard he sends from Australia.

They send from Australia yes, obviously it has to go through customs and how difficult customs are in your country, I don't know. It was easier to get raw powders and the home made creams are of better quality than what you're going to get from any other providers. The ointments that are full of DMSO are rough on the skin.