Surviving Propecia

[nurselyfe]

4.5 years. i went off cold turkey. i will try to get labs done next week total,free t, e2, lh,fsh. those 2 months were pure hell but i started to have few good days here and there. most important thing for me is to be patient

even though it is still early to ask, you do not feel cured correct? better mentally than when you were on TRT, because we both discussed rising (not high, but rising) estrogen levels makes us feel horrible, when in the past it made us feel great

 

[lowe2sucks]

no i don't feel same way as i felt before I OD on anastrozole.. but i feel way better then few months ago mood wise, erection wise, and better body composition

 

[nurselyfe]

no i don't feel same way as i felt before I OD on anastrozole.. but i feel way better then few months ago

right because a few months ago, you were on 80mg a week, started hcg with it as per Dr. Saya, began feeling low E2 side effects despite increasing estrogen. stop TRT for a little, started it again and began feeling as you describe "hell". Then finally came off cold turkey and now some of your symptoms are better like the mental ones.

you had rising estrogen as you stopped and started, making you feel these horrible
symptoms that feel way worse than low T right?

 

[lowe2sucks]

definitely.. low t never made not being able to function and feel like im dying but that shit did
im very curious if my e2 will be low indeed on labs
i've seen some study where man with estrogen receptor dysfunction or estrogen insensitivity had high levels of e2 on bloodwork and high gonadotropins (lh fsh)

 

[nurselyfe]

definitely.. low t never made not being able to function and feel like im dying but that shit did

same here man. coming off T cold turkey never gave me libido issues, ED, full body hair loss, or lack of a pump in the gym. Neither did high, or just increasing estrogen.

coming off T only made me lose a bit of strength and endurance and made me tired but that's expected

 

[Systemlord]

Wow, pretty low dose. Where does that put your Total T? I was on 100 mgs a week and after 6 weeks my total T was 367 (lower than my pre trt levels) So, I am now on 60 (3 times a week) Mon/Wed/Fri...
My SHBG is 20, while in range, still low, so I seem to metabolize Testosterone really fast. What was your SHBG?

Dr. Crisler mentioned that PFS seems to affect lower SHBG men more. Maybe you won't develop symptoms overnight, perhaps it takes years to occur.

I'll take slightly high DHT over taking Propecia.

 

[Vitamin_C]

definitely.. low t never made not being able to function and feel like im dying but that shit did
im very curious if my e2 will be low indeed on labs
i've seen some study where man with estrogen receptor dysfunction or estrogen insensitivity had high levels of e2 on bloodwork and high gonadotropins (lh fsh)

I’d like to follow your case, as interested as I am in TRT medicine I’m as equally interested in people coming off. Let me know what your labs look like and how quality of life is .

 

[Vitamin_C]

Please come on there's hundreds of millions of men on that and do fine stop with the overdramatics

This is the mystery with some guys. So you already have a relatively low subset of guys who get propecia sides, but then another subset of these men get the longer lasting sides. No one knows what causes the longer lasting sides but the rat study showed that the sides got worse after the drug stopped which I am wondering if men read that study and then had a nocebo effect from that information. Rat studies cannot always be extrapolated to humans. There is no known mechanism of the drug causing side effects after it leaves the body, and is an extremely rare phenomenon in medicine and seems to go against all known pharmacology .

 

[Giovanni73]

.25 almost blocks just as much conversion as 1mg and there's no difference in how much 1mg and 5mg block. will provide literature if requested

So with a 5 mg proscar pill, you can cut into 4 pieces (1.25 mg) then further cut these 4 pieces in half (.65 mg)?

 

[Giovanni73]

Dr. Crisler mentioned that PFS seems to affect lower SHBG men more. Maybe you won't develop symptoms overnight, perhaps it takes years to occur.

I'll take slightly high DHT over taking Propecia.

A lot of doctors also recommend propecia. Like Doctor Rand... Check him out on YouTube.

 

[Giovanni73]

This is the mystery with some guys. So you already have a relatively low subset of guys who get propecia sides, but then another subset of these men get the longer lasting sides. No one knows what causes the longer lasting sides but the rat study showed that the sides got worse after the drug stopped which I am wondering if men read that study and then had a nocebo effect from that information. Rat studies cannot always be extrapolated to humans. There is no known mechanism of the drug causing side effects after it leaves the body, and is an extremely rare phenomenon in medicine and seems to go against all known pharmacology .

Yes... It's like everyone has me scared to take my propecia now. I have been off 4 days. Can a guy get his hair back and be left alone with the horror stories of people taking propecia and turning ***... Or taking one pill and blowing their brains out.

 

[nurselyfe]

definitely.. low t never made not being able to function and feel like im dying but that shit did
im very curious if my e2 will be low indeed on labs
i've seen some study where man with estrogen receptor dysfunction or estrogen insensitivity had high levels of e2 on bloodwork and high gonadotropins (lh fsh)

I don't know if it will be as dramatic as that. You cannot compare something you acquired after sexual development to something people are born with.. But, I will tell you that my buddy had a total T of 13 nmol before propecia and had no issues sexually or mentally. 10 months after propecia his T doubled and has probably some of the worst side effects I've heard thus yet. This definitely supports the notion of insensitivity.

As far as literature, I agree there is no indication of it being able to cause long lasting sides. Same thing with arimidex. But I am starting to get the feeling that there is something else is involved here and it has nothing to do with the drug but more so what the body does in response to hormone deprivation.

 

[Jusior]

the effects are permanent for some people aren't they? I read some bad reports on forums years ago and that was enough to scare me away.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I don’t believe they are permanent , and I think that guys who tell themselves it is will convince themselves it is . There have been PFS recovery stories , so that shows you it’s not a permanent condition . But guys who get PFS who have a risk for mood disorders are going to convince themselves there is no way out and it’s kust extremely counter productive to healing .

 

[lowe2sucks]

it may not be permanent but in some cases is so long lasting that you might aswell call it permanent
but about pfs and risk for mood disorders you are right that because their condtion affects the way they think because of its affects on neurosteroids and brain chemistry

 

[Giovanni73]

I don’t believe they are permanent , and I think that guys who tell themselves it is will convince themselves it is . There have been PFS recovery stories , so that shows you it’s not a permanent condition . But guys who get PFS who have a risk for mood disorders are going to convince themselves there is no way out and it’s kust extremely counter productive to healing .

So true. The PFS stories almost borderline the ridiculous.

 

[Vitamin_C]

The small amount of guys who get hit the hardest by accutane and PFS can recover, but these guys are going to need to do DRASTIC lifestyle changes to heal and repair the gut etc . Guys who believe they can’t recover will likely never put in the work required to recover .

 

[nurselyfe]

The small amount of guys who get hit the hardest by accutane and PFS can recover, but these guys are going to need to do DRASTIC lifestyle changes to heal and repair the gut etc . Guys who believe they can’t recover will likely never put in the work required to recover .

This is false. Everyone is affected differently. It is clear that people who are "affected" either get hypogonadism which requires healthy life style and hormonal therapy or some others can not even tolerate orgasm, more androgens, or working out. It makes their symptoms worse. Symptoms such as actual tissue degradation.

This whole "gut" and "healing" thing is complete and utter bullshit. Once again, not everyone has had their gut affected. And some guys have a normal hormonal profile and even a more FAVORABLE profile than before with accompanying symptoms that have decimated their life.

I am sorry but eating broccoli every day isn't going to cure a destroyed **** and zero libido.

Vitamin C is the same dude who told me I have to heal my gut, once again, making random assumptions I have gut issues when I have absolutely none, in order for me to "heal"

Nonetheless, the adverse side effects as I have pointed out are slim. You're hardly likely to get any from Propecia. And the guys who are affected permanently are even slimmer.

We have absolutely no idea why some get adverse side effects yet.

Giovanni, you keep going back and forth, supporting propecia and then saying the evidence is "interesting" Just do us all a favor take propecia and stay on it. Then close this thread

 

[Vitamin_C]

What is false? that some guys can't recover? please show anywhere in literature where this is described and please describe the mechanism that prevents recovery, I'll await any type of peer-review study from you. Also, you can't qualify for any type of ambulance chasing lawyer lawsuit against Roche unless you are diagnosed with IBS/leaky gut issues with accutane, the lawyers have conducted evidence-based data which shows that there is a gut connection and some of the biggest PFS recovery stories have always addressed healing the gut.

//I am sorry but eating broccoli every day isn't going to cure a destroyed **** and zero libido.//

If you think this is the protocol for recovery, you are terribly misinformed.

//We have absolutely no idea why some get adverse side effects yet.//

The evidence is pointing to those who have a genetic predisposition to poor gut health, this is why you can't get any $$$ from class action lawsuits against Roche unless there is a diagnosis of gut problems, follow the evidence.

Nurselyfe and LowE2 are perpetual fear mongers, listening to them is only going to drag you into their pit of despair and hopelessness. These guys deserve to join the other hopeless people on the PFS forums where they can throw pity parties all day and talk about how they will never get a hard-on again, they love nothing more to drag others into their pessimism. If you've seen some of nurselyfes postings, he actually complains of about having NON SYMPTOMS such as oily skin or nipple issues, absolute insanity, and this is coming from someone with an extensive history in working with the mentally ill. Personally, I would avoid accutane and propecia, and when I prescribe I will definitely educate my patients on potential issues.

 

[nurselyfe]

What is false? that some guys can't recover? please show anywhere in literature where this is described and please describe the mechanism that prevents recovery, I'll await any type of peer-review study from you. Also, you can't qualify for any type of ambulance chasing lawyer lawsuit against Roche unless you are diagnosed with IBS/leaky gut issues with accutane, the lawyers have conducted evidence-based data which shows that there is a gut connection and some of the biggest PFS recovery stories have always addressed healing the gut.

//I am sorry but eating broccoli every day isn't going to cure a destroyed **** and zero libido.//

If you think this is the protocol for recovery, you are terribly misinformed.

//We have absolutely no idea why some get adverse side effects yet.//

The evidence is pointing to those who have a genetic predisposition to poor gut health, this is why you can't get any $$$ from class action lawsuits against Roche unless there is a diagnosis of gut problems, follow the evidence.

Nurselyfe and LowE2 are perpetual fear mongers, listening to them is only going to drag you into their pit of despair and hopelessness. These guys deserve to join the other hopeless people on the PFS forums where they can throw pity parties all day and talk about how they will never get a hard-on again, they love nothing more to drag others into their pessimism. If you've seen some of nurselyfes postings, he actually complains of about having NON SYMPTOMS such as oily skin or nipple issues, absolute insanity, and this is coming from someone with an extensive history in working with the mentally ill. Personally, I would avoid accutane and propecia, and when I prescribe I will definitely educate my patients on potential issues.

There is absolutely no evidence, and there is under 30 recoveries listed on the PH site someone of which have been proven fake. You really haven't looked at the individual situstion, such as their labs, very specific symptoms, and what they have tried.

Ive also never bashed anastrazole and always said it was crucial in the success of my TRT. And i've been fairly diplomatic regarding propecia, stating it has rare sides that you may not rid yourself from.

Guess Shippen and Crisler are pertual fear mongerers as well lmao.

You are also the same person who listed my symptoms half of which I never even said, and look you did it again, I do not even have oily skin or nipple issues. What's with this guy