Niacin and lipolysis - does it inhibit/impair fat loss?

[Kaus Klinski]

Hi,

I'm currently thinking about adding some niacin to my supplement stack (about 250-500 mg/day) for it's beneficial effects on the lipid profile, mainly, I'd like to up my HDL a little.

But I'm concerned about it's potent antilipolytic effects (which is the actual mechanism behind it's triglyceride lowering effects AFAIK). Can any of you guys say if niacin could possibly make it harder to lose body fat when dieting? I mean, inhibiting lipolysis sounds quite a bit counterproductive when it comes to body fat reduction. Please excuse my poor english, I'm from germany.

Regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I believe it starts by inhibiting lipolysis and then after several hours the affect reverses and it may enhance it. Check out the segments on Niacin in the Chris Masterjohn Lite series and also his podcast with Alex Leaf for a detailed discussion. Also see his comments about supplementing with TMG or something similar when on Niacin. I used niacin for while before I knew what he was recommending and I felt "off" after a while.

 

[Kaus Klinski]

Hi,

thanks for your reply.

I've never heard about "TMG", maybe you could provide me with a quick overview on the topic?

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Vince]

Dr. Davis (my former doctor) no longer recommends supplementing with niacin. I still take 1500 mg of niacin before bed, I stopped for a time but I like how it increases my HDL levels.

 

[mooseman109]

Vince, do you find it raises your HDL by at least 5 points?

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Guided_by_Voices:

OK, so I listened to the mentioned podcasts and I came to the conclusion that the risks of high dose niacin supplementation outweigh the benfits, at least in my case. My HDL isn't below the minimum range, I just wanted to spike it a little, but according to the informations provided in the podcasts, that doesn't necessarily do anything good for heart health (my LDL and triglycerides are OK anyway). Too bad that I already bought a 240 caps bottle of Niacin 500 mg ;-) In fact, I already took one capsule yesterday, the flush was quite funny, I didn't expect it to be *that* intense (I even got some facial swelling) ;->

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Vince]

Vince, do you find it raises your HDL by at least 5 points?

Yes it has raise my HDL by at least five points. Eating eggs has also been very beneficial and helping my HDL cholesterol and not raising my LDL.

Link Removed

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Responding to several points here, my understanding is that the main theoretical benefit if niacin is that it is one of the only things that lowers LP(a), however the benefit of doing that is unclear but may be desirable for some people. TMG is TriMethylGlycine and apparently counters the methylation issues which Niacin can create (see Chris Masterjohn for more on this.) I definitely felt "off" when I was taking high dose niacin before I knew about this issue, so I now do several brief cycles of it per year and supplement with MSM. Getting frequent sun exposure also increases the need for Niacin according to Chris, so I take low doses when I am getting quality sun, which fortunately is about 8 months per year for me.

 

[MarkM]

I take 500 mg of niacin daily. I have not noticed it improving my HDL but I do believe it has helped lower my LDL. I could not say about the body fat. I run pretty consistently between 10 - 12 % body fat and have no problem losing body fat when I have let it increase a little bit. I take my niacin at night and don't feel the flush unless I take it too early before going to bed then it can be a little intense at times.

 

[Kaus Klinski]

OK guys,

I thank everyone of you for your replies. I decided to stay away from the niacin for now.

regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[Neil]

Dr. Davis (my former doctor) no longer recommends supplementing with niacin. I still take 1500 mg of niacin before bed, I stopped for a time but I like how it increases my HDL levels.

I thought I heard Dr. Davis said that he no longer finds niacin necessary, or something like that. I don't believe I heard him say that he doesn't recommend taking it. A small detail though, anyway his 2004 book really stressed niacin. I do take 1,000mg of Rugby niacin (amazon), it's cheap and at first, I warn it will make you flush like a red-headed baboon. It no longer makes me flush, unless I forget to take it for a few days and start again.

 

[Vince]

I thought I heard Dr. Davis said that he no longer finds niacin necessary, or something like that. I don't believe I heard him say that he doesn't recommend taking it. A small detail though, anyway his 2004 book really stressed niacin. I do take 1,000mg of Rugby niacin (amazon), it's cheap and at first, I warn it will make you flush like a red-headed baboon. It no longer makes me flush, unless I forget to take it for a few days and start again.

I did use Rugby niacin for a few years, at times I take it on an empty stomach. In the morning it (occasionally) would give me a severe stomach ache and cause me to vomit. Now for the last 10 years or so I've been using endur-acin, I've never had any issues with it. It's great for my HDL cholesterol. Soon they will be checking HDL like they check LDL, by particles. At that time we should be able to know what's really helping our HDL cholesterol.

 

[Neil]

Vince, do you find it raises your HDL by at least 5 points?

Raises mine by about 20 points. No lie.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

I did use Rugby niacin for a few years, at times I take it on an empty stomach. In the morning it (occasionally) would give me a severe stomach ache and cause me to vomit. Now for the last 10 years or so I've been using endur-acin, I've never had any issues with it. It's great for my HDL cholesterol. Soon they will be checking HDL like they check LDL, by particles. At that time we should be able to know what's really helping our HDL cholesterol.

I was taking 1-1.5g daily of Endur-acin for several months and wound up with elevated liver enzymes. Had to stop completely and reduce to 250mg twice daily immediate release and now my enzymes are within range. Higher doses are a risk and everyone has a different threshold. Let's face it, we are using doses of niacin at therapeutic levels like a drug, thus the sides effects are dose-dependent.

 

[Vince]

I was taking 1-1.5g daily of Endur-acin for several months and wound up with elevated liver enzymes. Had to stop completely and reduce to 250mg twice daily immediate release and now my enzymes are within range. Higher doses are a risk and everyone has a different threshold. Let's face it, we are using doses of niacin at therapeutic levels like a drug, thus the sides effects are dose-dependent.

Luckily I'm one of them that never had any issues with high doses of niacin.

 

[xqfq]

To answer the question on antilipolytic effects: I take 1g of Slo-Niacin daily and I got ridiculously shredded during my last cut (we're talking bodybuilder stage lean). I've noticed no effect on fat loss.

 

[Neil]

I was taking 1-1.5g daily of Endur-acin for several months and wound up with elevated liver enzymes. Had to stop completely and reduce to 250mg twice daily immediate release and now my enzymes are within range. Higher doses are a risk and everyone has a different threshold. Let's face it, we are using doses of niacin at therapeutic levels like a drug, thus the sides effects are dose-dependent.

Hi Marco, yes that for sure can be an issue with timed-release niacin. The Rugby brand is an instant release variety, kicks up HDL hard, and does not cause one drop of liver issues. My values are nice and centered. It's also really cheap at Amazon. The size of the bottle is almost comical, it's the size of a mayonnaise jar! I take Rugby at bedtime along with fish oil and melatonin (and a few others), and since I take it every day (2-500mg tablets) I get almost zero flushing. Hope this helps.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

Dr. Davis (my former doctor) no longer recommends supplementing with niacin. I still take 1500 mg of niacin before bed, I stopped for a time but I like how it increases my HDL levels.

Just curious, did you actually see Dr. Davis as a patient or was it through his Cureality/Undoctored blog? Why did you stop?

I read his recent update on stopping niacin: Why I No Longer Use Niacin | The Undoctored Blog

I think in some stubborn cases with genetic variants that predispose to T2D, etc., even following his program to a T, niacin may be necessary. I may fall into that category (not doing better on LCHF, for example). Thoughts?

 

[Vince]

Just curious, did you actually see Dr. Davis as a patient or was it through his Cureality/Undoctored blog? Why did you stop?

I read his recent update on stopping niacin: Why I No Longer Use Niacin | The Undoctored Blog

I think in some stubborn cases with genetic variants that predispose to T2D, etc., even following his program to a T, niacin may be necessary. I may fall into that category (not doing better on LCHF, for example). Thoughts?

Yes I was a patient a doctor William R Davis, the wheat belly doctor. He's no longer a practicing doctor. I stopped taking niacin for a time, because of a study, saying it did not help.

 

[Vince]

Yes I was a patient a doctor William R Davis, the wheat belly doctor. He's no longer a practicing doctor. I stopped taking niacin for a time, because of a study, saying it did not help.

After dr. Davis, I started seeing a lipidologist, Tara Dall. She left her practice and now I see one of her colleagues. Pauline Haririe, apnp