Nandrolone Experiences

[DS3]

I was unable to get beyond the abstracts.

The first article mentioned 15mg/kg per day (rats). For me, that would be about 8,820mg/week.

In the second article, do they mention dosages?

All of the articles mention abuse. Wondering if this could be an issue with doses commonly used for TRT, like 80mg or 100mg/week, for example.

What dosages were you using, and for how long, when you experienced cognitive effects?

For a 200 lb male, 15 mg/kg would translate in to 1,350 mg per week of nandrolone. I didn’t have full access to the other two articles, so I can’t see what dosages where used.

That’s a very good point that perhaps much of the potential neurotoxic effects of nandrolone from these studies are based on supraphyiological dosing protocols. My concern, though, is whether or not the potential effects on the hippocampus and other brain regions exists at lower dosages.

Perhaps a lower dosage like 50-100 mg weekly would have no negative effect, but for me it certainly did. Perhaps it is also based on vulnerability as well.

To answer your question, when I took nandrolone it was dosed at 100 mg per week. I began to experience increased recall time, decreased memory function, and decreased complex reasoning within about 4 weeks or starting nandrolone.

 

[S1W]

For a 200 lb male, 15 mg/kg would translate in to 1,350 mg per week of nandrolone. I didn’t have full access to the other two articles, so I can’t see what dosages where used.

That’s a very good point that perhaps much of the potential neurotoxic effects of nandrolone from these studies are based on supraphyiological dosing protocols. My concern, though, is whether or not the potential effects on the hippocampus and other brain regions exists at lower dosages.

Perhaps a lower dosage like 50-100 mg weekly would have no negative effect, but for me it certainly did. Perhaps it is also based on vulnerability as well.

To answer your question, when I took nandrolone it was dosed at 100 mg per week. I began to experience increased recall time, decreased memory function, and decreased complex reasoning within about 4 weeks or starting nandrolone.

IIRC, the article stated 15/mg per kg per day. Agree though...the spirit of it is very large doses were used.

Thanks for your reply - always appreciate your input. I assume that at this point you have discontinued using nandrolone. How long ago did you stop using it and have the mental effects gone away?

 

[DS3]

IIRC, the article stated 15/mg per kg per day. Agree though...the spirit of it is very large doses were used.

Thanks for your reply - always appreciate your input. I assume that at this point you have discontinued using nandrolone. How long ago did you stop using it and have the mental effects gone away?

You are totally right on the dosage. That was an oversight on my part.

The last time I used nandrolone was a little over a year ago. The metal effects were rectified within about 3 weeks after cessation.

I continue to have curiosities as the whether my side effects were in part due to too high of a T dosage (200 mg) in combination with the nandrolone. I play around with the idea in my head that if I lowered the T dosage to 120-140 and kept nandrolone at 100 mg per week then perhaps I’d be able to mitigate side effects.

 

[S1W]

You are totally right on the dosage. That was an oversight on my part.

The last time I used nandrolone was a little over a year ago. The metal effects were rectified within about 3 weeks after cessation.

I continue to have curiosities as the whether my side effects were in part due to too high of a T dosage (200 mg) in combination with the nandrolone. I play around with the idea in my head that if I lowered the T dosage to 120-140 and kept nandrolone at 100 mg per week then perhaps I’d be able to mitigate side effects.

I’m trying to figure that out as well. I seem to recall @JimGainz has some experience with titrating T dose along with nandrolone dosages.

 

[Cataceous]

You are totally right on the dosage. That was an oversight on my part.

...

Your answer is probably closer, even if accidentally. The conversion factor for a human equivalent dose is 6/37. So 15 mg/kg/d (rat) = 105 mg/kg/w (rat) = 17 mg/kg/w (human). This is about 1,500 mg/w for a 90 kg man.

 

[DixieWrecked]

@Gman86

Who did you work with at defy that got you set up on our nandrolone based protocol?

 

[JimGainz]

Yes, I have been a patient for years. That changed my life so much that I moved my family From Dayton to Tampa and work at Defy.

I'm prescribed 50mg twice a week. It's a good dose to start with and it magnifies the benefits of testosterone alone.

Very cool. I often thought of the same thing because they have changed my life for the better in so many ways. Thank god for clinics like this or else many of us would have had no avenue for help. Defy put me on TRT, fixed my thyroid, and now, with Nandralone therapy, relieved decades of joint problems.

 

[JimGainz]

#1 Reason I HATE DECA CYCLES & Why It Belongs In The Golden Era (nandrolone and depression experiences)

(loss of libido and interest with nandrolone)

(Marc Lobliner- Deca w/ TRT and no issues)

(Dave Crosland, the same guy you just posted about @Gman86, discussing nandrolone regarding anxiety and depression- THIS IS A MUST WATCH) STUDIES: TIME= 0:00-6:34 REAL-LIFE EVIDENCE: TIME= 6:34, Dave Crosland's personal experience with losing cognitive ability while using nandrolone TIME= 9:10)

A lot of the side effects are based on dose. Note how some of these vids are talking about deca “cycles” at bodybuilding doses. If someone ran 300mg of Testosterone they could have equal or or anxiety or problems concentrating and even ED.

 

[JimGainz]

@Gman86

Who did you work with at defy that got you set up on our nandrolone based protocol?

Any of the doctors or nurse practitioners can provide Nandralone. Incidentally, I have called a few other clinics in Florida and they all do the same. I just had a consultation with one where they recommend staying on nandralone yearlong (@100mg/wk) with a few months off afterward. Defy generally, dose 12 weeks on and then 8-12 weeks off. I would prefer the Defy proctol personally.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86

Who did you work with at defy that got you set up on our nandrolone based protocol?

Mike Linkous. He’s awesome. He uses it himself as part of his protocol. In fact, the last time I talked to him I believe he told me that he had started using it as the base to his protocol as well. I believe his dosages were fairly similar, but his nandrolone dose was a little higher than his testosterone dose, and he was doing well on that protocol. Will be having a consultation with him in a few weeks. Interested to see what his protocol currently looks like and how he’s doing.

 

[Tman]

Nandrolone converts very very little into E2 and prolactin. So theoretically, if testosterone dose stayed the same, and low dose nandrolone was added, I would imagine you would see a slight increase in both E2 and prolactin. But if test dose was decreased, and nandrolone was added in at a low dose, I would imagine that u would see a net decrease in E2 and prolactin.

I realize this is an older post...but I could not help but add my 2 cents. First, my E2 did jump when I added ND at 70mg a week (I have low SHBG and very responsive to E) and the doc did add in P5P to address prolactin increases as a result of adding ND. I am not sure what very little is...but again...everyone responds differently. As a matter of fact, the doctor's first thought, when I shared the changes I was feeling after adding ND, was high prolactin.

Even more crazy...my cholesterol number improved dramatically.

 

[Vince]

I realize this is an older post...but I could not help but add my 2 cents. First, my E2 did jump when I added ND at 70mg a week (I have low SHBG and very responsive to E) and the doc did add in P5P to address prolactin increases as a result of adding ND. I am not sure what very little is...but again...everyone responds differently. As a matter of fact, the doctor's first thought, when I shared the changes I was feeling after adding ND, was high prolactin.

Even more crazy...my cholesterol number improved dramatically.

Can you post your before and after cholesterol panel. I would be interested in seeing it.

 

[Gman86]

I realize this is an older post...but I could not help but add my 2 cents. First, my E2 did jump when I added ND at 70mg a week (I have low SHBG and very responsive to E) and the doc did add in P5P to address prolactin increases as a result of adding ND. I am not sure what very little is...but again...everyone responds differently. As a matter of fact, the doctor's first thought, when I shared the changes I was feeling after adding ND, was high prolactin.

Even more crazy...my cholesterol number improved dramatically.

Ya good point, everyone is different. I’m sure everyone has different levels of the aromatase enzyme. But nandrolone is an interesting compound. It converts extremely little into estradiol and prolactin, but sensitizes estradiol and prolactin receptors. It can be confusing because guys will add in nandrolone, and can get high estradiol and prolactin side effects, and think it’s due to the nandrolone producing high levels of both, but what’s really going on is the nandrolone is just amplifying the effects of the estradiol and prolactin that’s already floating around in their system.

How much did the 70mg of nandrolone raise ur serum E2 levels? Did u keep ur testosterone dose the same? Any other changes that u made when adding in the nandrolone?

I know of two guys that were on 300mg of nandrolone only, and one guy had an E2 level of 5, and the other 6. And another guy on 900mg of nandrolone only and had a serum E2 level of 18. While I was on 200mg of nandrolone, 42mg of testosterone, and 525iu’s of HCG (all per week), my E2 was 24. Most of that E2 was definitely from the testosterone and HCG I was on. 70mg of nandrolone should only have raised ur serum E2 levels by around 5 points at very most. If it raised significantly after adding 70mg of nandrolone, it was either due to some other factor(s), or it was a lab error.

 

[JA Battle]

For a 200 lb male, 15 mg/kg would translate in to 1,350 mg per week of nandrolone. I didn’t have full access to the other two articles, so I can’t see what dosages where used.

That’s a very good point that perhaps much of the potential neurotoxic effects of nandrolone from these studies are based on supraphyiological dosing protocols. My concern, though, is whether or not the potential effects on the hippocampus and other brain regions exists at lower dosages.

Perhaps a lower dosage like 50-100 mg weekly would have no negative effect, but for me it certainly did. Perhaps it is also based on vulnerability as well.

To answer your question, when I took nandrolone it was dosed at 100 mg per week. I began to experience increased recall time, decreased memory function, and decreased complex reasoning within about 4 weeks or starting nandrolone.

It’s neurotoxicity comes from the fact that it is not a suitable substrate for aromatase. With enough e2, it would not be neurotoxic. Without e2, testosterone is neurotoxic as well.

 

[DS3]

It’s neurotoxicity comes from the fact that it is not a suitable substrate for aromatase. With enough e2, it would not be neurotoxic. Without e2, testosterone is neurotoxic as well.

Limiting estrogen via aromatase inhibitors or by using a non-aromatizing hormone as a base would likely produce neurotoxic effects given the neuroprotective nature of estrogen. That much is true. However, neurotoxic effects of Anavar is not demonstrated in TRT patients or patients with cachexia. Anavar, being a DHT-derived drug, does not possess the ability to aromatize. Why would this be? Patients using oxandrolone in clinical settings are taking it as an adjunct therapy to testosterone; they would already have sufficient estrogen in their system.

Aside from animal models demonstrating neurotoxic effects of nandrolone, there are no human studies studying this phenomenon. The limitations of these animal models are that they did not administer testosterone alongside the nandrolone. If nandrolone does indeed produce neurotoxic effects in TRT patients, it wouldn’t be due to a lack of aromatization; the patient would already have sufficient estradiol in his system. There would have to be another mechanism(s) causing this effects.

 

[JA Battle]

Yes, limiting aromatization is neurotoxic.

As far as I’m concerned, nandrolone is not directly neurotoxic. It is it’s affinity for the androgen receptor and activating it without also concurrently being able to aromatize and balance out the metabolic effects with adequate estrogen receptor activation.

And yes a sufficient amount of estradiol is needed however with more androgen load, be it from any source (test, dht , nandrolone) a matching activation of the estrogen receptor is needed. This is why with higher testosterone a concurrently higher estradiol is needed for most men to feel and function properly.

If proper balance between estrogen and androgen receptor activation can be achieved it really doesn’t matter the hormone as long as the hormone is not super selective as far as receptor subtype. This is why I believe oxandrolone to not be found neurotoxic. It is a more selective drug as far as androgen receptor activation.

In many cases using nandrolone as a base won’t be sustainable because of these reasons. Unless of course someone aromatizes a lot from some added testosterone Or uses enough hcg to create enough e2 or supplements e2 directly. Nandrolone must be balanced with e2 from some source to be viable and not neurotoxic.

 

[Gman86]

Does anyone think part of the neurotoxicity of nandrolone could be due to it converting into DHN and not DHT? DHT is very important for the brain, as well as estrogen obviously.

 

[DS3]

Yes, limiting aromatization is neurotoxic.

As far as I’m concerned, nandrolone is not directly neurotoxic. It is it’s affinity for the androgen receptor and activating it without also concurrently being able to aromatize and balance out the metabolic effects with adequate estrogen receptor activation.

Animal models hypothesize that androgen receptor activation is partially responsible for nandrolone’a neurotoxic effect. This is, however, a hypothesis (not proven). This is speculation.

And yes a sufficient amount of estradiol is needed however with more androgen load, be it from any source (test, dht , nandrolone) a matching activation of the estrogen receptor is needed. This is why with higher testosterone a concurrently higher estradiol is needed for most men to feel and function properly.

Sources?

If proper balance between estrogen and androgen receptor activation can be achieved it really doesn’t matter the hormone as long as the hormone is not super selective as far as receptor subtype. This is why I believe oxandrolone to not be found neurotoxic. It is a more selective drug as far as androgen receptor activation.

Sources? Are you suggesting that Anavar is in fact a SARM?

In many cases using nandrolone as a base won’t be sustainable because of these reasons. Unless of course someone aromatizes a lot from some added testosterone Or uses enough hcg to create enough e2 or supplements e2 directly. Nandrolone must be balanced with e2 from some source to be viable and not neurotoxic.

 

[DS3]

Does anyone think part of the neurotoxicity of nandrolone could be due to it converting into DHN and not DHT? DHT is very important for the brain, as well as estrogen obviously.

That is not an unreasonable hypothesis.

 

[DixieWrecked]

Does anyone think part of the neurotoxicity of nandrolone could be due to it converting into DHN and not DHT? DHT is very important for the brain, as well as estrogen obviously.

@Gman86 I'm interested in trying what you are doing. Did they make the nandrolone a permanent part of your protocol to run year round?