It’s what I listed above - 46mg or .23ml of both Testosterone and Nandralone (200mg/ ml vial) dosed every 3 days. This comes out to around 112mg/week of each according to my calculations from the SteroidPlottter website. Beyond that I take very low AI - like .125mg on injection days and 250 IUs of HCG on injection days as well. For the new one I’m just skipping one of the Nandralone doses so I’ll be doing 46mg every 6 days (will bump to 50mg). So far I feel great on this.
Nandrolone Experiences
- Thread starter DS3
- Start date
Z
Zibernet
Guest
MENT probably has every single benefit of Nandrolone and more, without the sides.
Nandrolone is a drug of the past.
Nandrolone is a drug of the past.
What is MENT?
Ment helps with joints?
Also, one benefit of nandrolone is that it produces extremely little E2, but can increase free androgens and also help with putting on lean mass. Isn’t Ment one of the most aromatizing anabolics out there? They might be similar in many ways, but this is just a big difference I see between the two. Just wanted to point it out.
Nandrolone seems to be one of the best anabolics for people that have high E2 issues. Ment seems to be the worst. But obv a very good compound for guys that don’t aromatize enough, I would imagine
@Gman86, can I ask for an updated opinion on nandrolone? I intend to plow through what's written here to gain greater insight on it. I started at page 1 and so far, am only on page 7! Most of what I have read so far has been back and forth between you and @DS3.
I ask because on a call with Defy the other day, my provider brought it up as an option. Without any form of TRT, I feel tired, run down. But, I have a ton of issues tolerating most forms of TRT. I have posted in several threads that I consistently experience unacceptable side effects with just about everything besides Natesto and hCG. I categorize my lack of tolerance into two categories: (1) typical TRT sides that many guys experience, and (2) migraine/headache issues that only I get. I have a long history of headaches, and I have limited tolerance to tinkering. It's the second category that has plagued me when trying to find a TRT "sweet spot".
In the end, I can accept Natesto/hCG as my long term solution. BUT, I am missing a few key benefits with this regimen: it does very little for libido and it does not appear to have any anabolic benefit. Anabolic is my lowest priority, but I do believe there is benefit in improved lean body mass that TRT offers. I also think that injections and maybe cream help my various musculoskeletal ailments (nothing serious, but a lot of tendon soreness).
I have been working to try to figure out what triggers my headaches, and theories include: ester, oil, preservatives, absolute T levels, transitioning T levels or downstream metabolites. If anyone wants to know how I have been tracking these variables, I am happy to post details, but I don't want to bore you with them.
Long story short, on my call with Defy, we postulated that one possible explanation for the headache issue is not so much what is happening with T levels, rather perhaps it is downstream metabolites causing the problems. Therefore, nandrolone was proposed as an option to supplement my regimen to gain the anabolic benefit without bumping DHT or estrogen, etc.
On one hand, I am trying to simplify my regimen, but this suggestion intrigued me. I am considering it, but before I do, I need some good ole-fashioned bro science to help me feel good about it!
@Cataceous, I saw you weigh in during the early discussion. Do you have an updated opinion?
I am not 100% decided yet, but if I tried this approach, ideally, I would use it to supplement Natesto. Not sure if that's ever been tried in anyone, and not sure it makes sense.
Thanks for listening!
Z
Zibernet
Guest
I'm crippled by low e2, I have always wanted to try Dbol to help with that, apparently people get euphoria from it.
But orals, never.
Ment is apparently similar to dbol in effects, much stronger.
It's always made me highly curious.
Just curious.... how do you combat being wired and can't sleep on Nandrolone? I was only taking around 70mg a week. I couldn't sleep at all! Nandrolone clearly has positives... especially for ED issues and extra girth. But, if you can't get a good night's sleep... what's the point???
Anyone figure out how to get sleep while taking Nandrolone? And caffeine isn't an issue why I can't sleep. I hardly get any caffeine. It's clearly the Nandrolone. Thanks.
Anyone figure out how to get sleep while taking Nandrolone? And caffeine isn't an issue why I can't sleep. I hardly get any caffeine. It's clearly the Nandrolone. Thanks.
Similar experiences here.
Though I did notice that it really helped with chronic joint issues. Also, never tried lower dosages…I’ve read that even 50mg/wk can be effective for joints.
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Throwing my two pennies into the mix…you won’t know how you will react to nandrolone until you try it. There are several examples in this forum and this thread in particular who love nandrolone. Counter to that, there are several other people here that do not respond well to it.
Exactly. It’s kind of like discussing HCG - some men do great on it and others hate it. If someone has joint issues I don’t see the harm in adding 50-80 mg nandralone to their protocol for 2 months to see how they feel. I love the stuff - joint relieve plus a little bit of an anabolic boost with the Testosterone.
Only to count me as one who doesn't react well to nandrolone, even at the minuscule dose of 1 mg per day (NPP). This was about 20% of the amount of testosterone esters I was taking in addition. It seemed to be quite disruptive, correlating with worsening mood, libido and sexual function. I was disappointed, as I'd thought using NPP would be a way to slightly dial back the estrogenic and androgenic activity of my protocol.
@Cataceous, I have not personally read the myriad of studies on nandrolone out there, but I have been following the bro science. This seems to be a polarizing hormone. I am curious how you got yourself comfortable with trying nandrolone? What are your thoughts on how it impacts cardiovascular health? I assume you vetted the hormone thoroughly before trialing it?
I ask because I was briefly hopeful it may be a useful piece of the puzzle I am trying to solve (getting full spectrum of TRT benefit without getting headaches). During my most recent consult with Defy, my physician brought up nandrolone because we think that possibly some of my trouble with TRT may be related to metabolites as opposed to testosterone itself. The thinking was that since nandrolone does not produce the same downstream hormones as testosterone, perhaps it would be less likely to trigger headaches.
I have since been perusing forums (and admittedly have not independently read the literature) and I have gotten a bit spooked, particularly by the cardiovascular implications. Curious how you got yourself comfortable with it.
I ask because I was briefly hopeful it may be a useful piece of the puzzle I am trying to solve (getting full spectrum of TRT benefit without getting headaches). During my most recent consult with Defy, my physician brought up nandrolone because we think that possibly some of my trouble with TRT may be related to metabolites as opposed to testosterone itself. The thinking was that since nandrolone does not produce the same downstream hormones as testosterone, perhaps it would be less likely to trigger headaches.
I have since been perusing forums (and admittedly have not independently read the literature) and I have gotten a bit spooked, particularly by the cardiovascular implications. Curious how you got yourself comfortable with it.
For balancing testosterone’s metabolites, progesterone would be just as effective.
I have read the bro science on this, too. Listened to the Youtube webinars posted elsewhere in this forum and was really turned off by authoritative delivery of information. Zero conclusions from listening to the "lecture". (ie, "DHEA and Progesterone can make you tired. If not, it can make you energized...").
Would love to hear more details on how you think progesterone works in this context.
Various factors: The dose makes the poison, and since I'd never take more in nandrolone than about half my TRT dose, that's at most a few milligrams a day. I'm not too worried about cardiovascular effects in short term use of such a low dose. In contrast, Defy is prescribing relatively huge doses to all and sundry. I also chose phenylpropionate rather than decanoate so that it would be gone in a few days if I didn't like it. In hindsight this was a good move.
This study was to examine indirectly the effect of endogenous progesterone, a known competitor for 5 alpha-reductase…
This study noted progesterone’s antagonistic effect on 5 AR.
The effect of endogenous progesterone on serum levels of 5 alpha-reduced androgens in hirsute women - PubMed
This study was to examine indirectly the effect of endogenous progesterone, a known competitor for 5 alpha-reductase, on androgen metabolism in target organs in hirsute women. Serum levels of progesterone, testosterone (T), androstenedione (A), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and 5 alpha-androstane 3...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Progesterone functions as a precursor in men to produce testosterone while also acting as a balance to decrease estrogen levels. Progesterone is produced by men’s adrenal glands and testes…
This article discusses progesterone as a balancing hormone to estrogen.
Understanding Hormones: The roles of Estrogen and Progesterone - MacArthur Medical Center
Estrogen and progesterone are hormones that are important for sexual and reproductive development in women.
macarthurmc.com
Now, these two articles are simply intended to show that there is some evidence that progesterone helps to balance DHT and estrogen. Alongside these small, almost insignificant findings are the empirical results based on anecdotes of men experiencing lower rates of DHT and estrogen related side effects from TRT while using progesterone.
Interesting. Will take a look. I assume you are using progesterone? If so, mind sharing how you are taking it? Oral or topical? Micronized or standard? Dose?This study was to examine indirectly the effect of endogenous progesterone, a known competitor for 5 alpha-reductase…
This study noted progesterone’s antagonistic effect on 5 AR.
The effect of endogenous progesterone on serum levels of 5 alpha-reduced androgens in hirsute women - PubMed
This study was to examine indirectly the effect of endogenous progesterone, a known competitor for 5 alpha-reductase, on androgen metabolism in target organs in hirsute women. Serum levels of progesterone, testosterone (T), androstenedione (A), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and 5 alpha-androstane 3...
Progesterone functions as a precursor in men to produce testosterone while also acting as a balance to decrease estrogen levels. Progesterone is produced by men’s adrenal glands and testes…
This article discusses progesterone as a balancing hormone to estrogen.
Understanding Hormones: The roles of Estrogen and Progesterone - MacArthur Medical Center
Estrogen and progesterone are hormones that are important for sexual and reproductive development in women.
Now, these two articles are simply intended to show that there is some evidence that progesterone helps to balance DHT and estrogen. Alongside these small, almost insignificant findings are the empirical results based on anecdotes of men experiencing lower rates of DHT and estrogen related side effects from TRT while using progesterone.
Thanks.
I have some nandrolone questions along with a few peripheral questions for a few guys.
Background
When not TRT-optimized, I feel tired, lethargic, run down. When on certain forms of TRT, I feel a lot better, while other forms of TRT cause me a number of undesirable experiences, the worst of which is migraines. On a call with Defy recently, we discussed considering low dose nandrolone to add to a form of TRT that I tolerate. The logic was that one possible explanation for my headaches is the downstream metabolites from testosterone. Thus, nandrolone may provide some TRT benefit without the headaches. I have since learned that there are a ton of potential issues with nandrolone, so I am treading pretty lightly.
Questions
@Nelson Vergel, I know you did well on nandrolone for a long time. Do you think it impacted your libido in any negative way? Why did you eventually decide to stop? I have also read some of your posts on trimix. I don't use that product, but have a question on mixing oils. I can't imagine there is any issue with mixing nandrolone in grapeseed along with Test Cyp in sesame or other oil in a syringe (not mixing them in a vial, but in a syringe for a single injection)?
@Cataceous, I know you (very briefly) gave nandrolone a try. Did you do it IM or SC? I know there is a lot of debate on IM vs. SC Test injections. I fall into the camp that SC works fine. I think I saw one, old study on SC nandrolone, but didn't read it carefully. For those that successfully use nandrolone, is there any community consensus on IM vs. SC?
@ivkonst2017, I know you believe in IM only. In your experience, what is the minimum needle length you can use and still get into muscle? I think 1/2" in the thigh would work, but wonder what you have found.
Sidebar
I have read some of the threads on shelf life of testosterone. There has been a lot of discussion about potency and sterility. I have a vial of Test Cyp from Olympia pharmacy that was prescribed in 2017 or 2018. Unfortunately, I can't remember the oil. In any case, I barely touched it back then. I have had headache issues in the past with injections, most recently even with very low dose enanthate. I decided to give the expired Test Cyp a try at low doses. Interestingly, I tolerated it reasonably well. It felt more mellow than enanthate. If it lost potency, it has not lost so much that it does not provide benefit. I have seen a noticeable bump in energy. I cannot recommend doing this, as there could be sterility issues. That said, I can attest that even after several years, it seems to maintain is efficacy. Therefore, I am considering low dose Test Cyp along with very low dose nandrolone for a little while. Using them together may allow me to use low doses of both.
Background
When not TRT-optimized, I feel tired, lethargic, run down. When on certain forms of TRT, I feel a lot better, while other forms of TRT cause me a number of undesirable experiences, the worst of which is migraines. On a call with Defy recently, we discussed considering low dose nandrolone to add to a form of TRT that I tolerate. The logic was that one possible explanation for my headaches is the downstream metabolites from testosterone. Thus, nandrolone may provide some TRT benefit without the headaches. I have since learned that there are a ton of potential issues with nandrolone, so I am treading pretty lightly.
Questions
@Nelson Vergel, I know you did well on nandrolone for a long time. Do you think it impacted your libido in any negative way? Why did you eventually decide to stop? I have also read some of your posts on trimix. I don't use that product, but have a question on mixing oils. I can't imagine there is any issue with mixing nandrolone in grapeseed along with Test Cyp in sesame or other oil in a syringe (not mixing them in a vial, but in a syringe for a single injection)?
@Cataceous, I know you (very briefly) gave nandrolone a try. Did you do it IM or SC? I know there is a lot of debate on IM vs. SC Test injections. I fall into the camp that SC works fine. I think I saw one, old study on SC nandrolone, but didn't read it carefully. For those that successfully use nandrolone, is there any community consensus on IM vs. SC?
@ivkonst2017, I know you believe in IM only. In your experience, what is the minimum needle length you can use and still get into muscle? I think 1/2" in the thigh would work, but wonder what you have found.
Sidebar
I have read some of the threads on shelf life of testosterone. There has been a lot of discussion about potency and sterility. I have a vial of Test Cyp from Olympia pharmacy that was prescribed in 2017 or 2018. Unfortunately, I can't remember the oil. In any case, I barely touched it back then. I have had headache issues in the past with injections, most recently even with very low dose enanthate. I decided to give the expired Test Cyp a try at low doses. Interestingly, I tolerated it reasonably well. It felt more mellow than enanthate. If it lost potency, it has not lost so much that it does not provide benefit. I have seen a noticeable bump in energy. I cannot recommend doing this, as there could be sterility issues. That said, I can attest that even after several years, it seems to maintain is efficacy. Therefore, I am considering low dose Test Cyp along with very low dose nandrolone for a little while. Using them together may allow me to use low doses of both.
I used SC injections in my brief trial. I added the nandrolone to the syringe containing my testosterone ester blend.
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