Nandrolone Experiences

[Gman86]

You are right. I was alluding to the aromatization and 5-ar processes. Replacing T with substances that are similar to the results of those processes such as DHT or DHN isn't a replacement. We do not fully understand those processes and mimicking the results is not mimicking everything that happens during the processes.

There is uncertainty and inconclusive information in the papers, and that is the reason why I referenced them. Given what is known, it is unwise to use androgens without testosterone.

We can take T for decades, a lifetime. These proponents of N-only HRT are talking about higher doses like 300mg which is a lot. And I see some shockingly low E2 examples, that has long-term health consequences This isn't new, the bros do this stuff all the time and then they come here needing help. There are going to be side effects and safety issues, particularly long-term. Cycles aren't HRT. Are they going to drop the dose and add in some T when things go sideways? Then that is also not Nandrolone-only and proves that it doesn't work as replacement for TRT.

My point is that this experiment is attempted over and over by guys who don't even know what an androgen receptors is in gyms every day and it's not effective, and sometimes unsafe. Who wants to sign up to that for life? That's what this is - lifelong reolacement. Each is free to draw their own conclusions and make choices, but that rules it out for me. I am definitely a fan of Nandrolone, but not it's use exclusively.

Completely agree. I stated that above. It cannot be used as a replacement for T, in regards to HRT. At least when using it by itself. The aromatization is too low. On 300mg of deca alone, E2 seems to be around 5-6. 300mg of deca is overkill for HRT, and just like with testosterone, 200-250mg/ week of deca would be the upper limit. So obviously that would result in even less E2, which would be even worse. So no, Deca mono for HRT would not work.

I don’t see why, theoretically, it can’t be used successfully as a base though, with a small dose of T to boost E2.

I know you don’t like to give doses, in regards to your protocol, but would you be willing to just give your weekly T and deca doses? Clearly the combo is working very well for you. If you don’t want to disclose your doses, would you be willing to at least give the exact ratio of T:deca you’re currently using? Thanks again for everything, you’ve been extremely helpful with all the info that you’ve shared. Not just with deca, just in general on here.

 

[Gman86]

Just watched this video. They start talking about nandrolone at 42 mins into it.

But Broderick mentions that the idea that androgen receptors only care about being stimulated, and it doesn’t matter what compound stimulates them, is absolutely ridiculously stupid, in his opinion. So seems like I was 100% wrong on that one.

The other thing that he mentions, is about the fact that even though nandrolone produces extremely low levels of estradiol, it may produce estrogens that we aren’t aware of what effects they may have long term. He mentioned that it either may produce, or he knows for a fact that it produces a unique estrogen, called 19-nor estrogen.

 

[Cataceous]

...
But Broderick mentions that the idea that androgen receptors only care about being stimulated, and it doesn’t matter what compound stimulates them, is absolutely ridiculously stupid, in his opinion. So seems like I was 100% wrong on that one.
...

I'd reserve judgment on this one until someone shows us some good evidence one way or another in the scientific literature.

 

[bixt]

19-nor estrogen

Yikes, that must be one F****** up type of estrogen

 

[Gman86]

Yikes, that must be one F****** up type of estrogen

hahah, idk, could be bad, could be good, I didn’t even know it existed lol. Is it even a real thing?

 

[slicktop]

hahah, idk, could be bad, could be good, I didn’t even know it existed lol. Is it even a real thing?

Given that much of the theory on why modern men's t levels are dropping is based on the fact that there are so many estrogen-like substances in our environment (more than ever) I can't imagine that yet another cousin of estrogen is something we want in excess.

 

[Gman86]

Given that much of the theory on why modern men's t levels are dropping is based on the fact that there are so many estrogen-like substances in our environment (more than ever) I can't imagine that yet another cousin of estrogen is something we want in excess.

Very true. Xenoestrogens in our environment, in things we put on our body, in plastics, in the light from artificial lighting, from wifi signals, etc, is a huuuggggeee reason so many people suffer with hormone issues. So there’s a good chance that anymore estrogens, regardless of the type, are probably not the best for us, like you said. But I can’t even find anything saying that 19-nor estrogen is even a real thing. If it is real though, there’s a chance it could be bad, there’s a chance it could be good. We definitely can’t assume. Estradiol is very beneficial, in the right amounts. If 19-nor estrogen is real, there’s no telling whether it’s good, or bad, without looking at some research first. It could just be the equivalent of estradiol, but for nandrolone. It could be just as beneficial as E2, maybe in different ways. Who knows. Again, this is even if it’s a real thing lol

 

[rayrock1]

Jason,
are you currently a Defy patient and what is your current amount/dosage frequency with the nandrolone? thinking of becoming a defy patient as well.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Jason,
are you currently a Defy patient and what is your current amount/dosage frequency with the nandrolone? thinking of becoming a defy patient as well.

Yes, I have been a patient for years. That changed my life so much that I moved my family From Dayton to Tampa and work at Defy.

I'm prescribed 50mg twice a week. It's a good dose to start with and it magnifies the benefits of testosterone alone.

 

[rayrock1]

have you tried stanozolol to lower SHBG? dr lichten uses it instead of an ai? also when i come to defy do i tell my doc his is hat i want or let him suggest?

 

[SilverSurfer]

Completely agree. I stated that above. It cannot be used as a replacement for T, in regards to HRT. At least when using it by itself. The aromatization is too low. On 300mg of deca alone, E2 seems to be around 5-6. 300mg of deca is overkill for HRT, and just like with testosterone, 200-250mg/ week of deca would be the upper limit. So obviously that would result in even less E2, which would be even worse. So no, Deca mono for HRT would not work.

I don’t see why, theoretically, it can’t be used successfully as a base though, with a small dose of T to boost E2.

I know you don’t like to give doses, in regards to your protocol, but would you be willing to just give your weekly T and deca doses? Clearly the combo is working very well for you. If you don’t want to disclose your doses, would you be willing to at least give the exact ratio of T:deca you’re currently using? Thanks again for everything, you’ve been extremely helpful with all the info that you’ve shared. Not just with deca, just in general on here.

You know Gman, at a certain point you’re just going to have to decide if Deca is for you. I’m 10 weeks into my Deca and I’ve kept researching and reading up on Deca and I’m still just as flummoxed today as I was 10 weeks ago, except now I’m 15+ lbs buffer, and my joints don‘t hurt.

Maybe since I’m a recovering addict my mindset is different but I no longer sit on the fence debating myself. Either do, or not do. You have as much relevant infornation as you’re going to get.

 

[Gman86]

You know Gman, at a certain point you’re just going to have to decide if Deca is for you. I’m 10 weeks into my Deca and I’ve kept researching and reading up on Deca and I’m still just as flummoxed today as I was 10 weeks ago, except now I’m 15+ lbs buffer, and my joints don‘t hurt.

Maybe since I’m a recovering addict my mindset is different but I no longer sit on the fence debating myself. Either do, or not do. You have as much relevant infornation as you’re going to get.

Not sure why you have such a strong conviction about whether I use it or not. And no offense, but I don’t understand why you’re fluxxomed by nandrolone, after 10 weeks of researching. Between the fb groups, the forum, Youtube, googling, and mainly a few guys on deca that I’ve been messaging back and forth on a daily basis for about a month now, I feel like every single day I’m learning and understanding nandrolone more and more. My understanding of nandrolone is leaps and bounds where it was just a month ago.

It’s not a matter of whether I’m going to use nandrolone or not. I am 100% going to add it to my HRT protocol, and even though I haven’t even taken it yet, I already don’t want my protocol to ever be without it. What I’m trying to figure out is the best ratio of nandrolone to testosterone to take.

Do you mind if I ask what your pre deca protocol looked like, and what ur current protocol looks like with the addition of deca? How are you feeling, subjectively, with deca, compared to your pre deca protocol? Thanks in advance.

 

[Gman86]

@SilverSurfer if there’s anything about nandrolone that you’re confused about, and/ or if you have any questions about it, feel free to private message me. I’d be more than happy to help you out. And if it’s something I can’t answer, I’d be more than happy to ask the guys I’ve been messaging. One of them has given me the amount, and type, of knowledge on nandrolone that would of literally took me years to learn, if I didn’t have him as a resource. Most of the stuff he’s taught me is stuff that I may never have learned on my own, at all, regardless of how much time I spent researching.

 

[Paul M]

It’s not a matter of whether I’m going to use nandrolone or not. I am 100% going to add it to my HRT protocol, and even though I haven’t even taken it yet, I already don’t want my protocol to ever be without it. What I’m trying to figure out is the best ratio of nandrolone to testosterone to take.

Isn't that a little like saying:

'I'm not going to start TRT until I can work out how much testosterone I need'.

I now take 50/50 Test to Deca and feel geat. I've taken 60/40 and also felt great. I think until you embark down the nandrolone route you'll not know what the best ratio suits you, just as no one knows their ideal T dosage at the outset of TRT.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Just like testosterone, you are prescribed Nandrolone by your provider based on what is safe, not based on what you want.

 

[Jason Sypolt]

Isn't that a little like saying:

'I'm not going to start TRT until I can work out how much testosterone I need'.

I now take 50/50 Test to Deca and feel geat. I've taken 60/40 and also felt great. I think until you embark down the nandrolone route you'll not know what the best ratio suits you, just as no one knows their ideal T dosage at the outset of TRT.

Yes, this isn't something that has to be precisely accurate to the milligram. You try it if it's safe and approved for you and go from there after follow up labs, just like with the rest of a protocol. Sometimes we tend to overthink something too much.

 

[Gman86]

Isn't that a little like saying:

'I'm not going to start TRT until I can work out how much testosterone I need'.

I now take 50/50 Test to Deca and feel geat. I've taken 60/40 and also felt great. I think until you embark down the nandrolone route you'll not know what the best ratio suits you, just as no one knows their ideal T dosage at the outset of TRT.

Do you mind sharing your dosage of test and deca? I understand that they’re the same. Just curious.

When you say you tried a 60/40 split, was that 60% test, and 40% deca?

and I’m not waiting to start until I figure out the “best” ratio split in my head, I’m only waiting because my consultation isn’t until the beginning of March. I will be talking to Mike, the PA at defy, about adding in deca to my protocol during that consultation. I picked him to do the consultation with, because I feel comfortable that he knows his stuff, when it comes to things like deca, and I trust whatever recommendation(s) he makes

 

[Gman86]

Just like testosterone, you are prescribed Nandrolone by your provider based on what is safe, not based on what you want.

Couldn’t agree more. I definitely look forward to using the knowledge that we both have, in regards to hormones, and specifically deca, to come up with the best protocol that he see’s fit

 

[Paul M]

I'm on 75mg of each now. Prior it was 60% T and 40% deca. Also around 700IU of HCG which will raise T further.

 

[bixt]

Gman86, just like you I also intend to add nandrolone at some point, although its probably far away (Im young, T alone works excellent, and absolutely no joint issues etc).

I have the same question as you, whats the ideal ratio? Or alternatively, whats the minimum amount of nandrolone where the benefits are felt. I believe Dr Lichten uses around 40mg a week as a starting point along with TRT, thats super low in terms of dosage and yet he sees clinical improvements regarding inflammation in the digestive tract at those small dosages (from what I recall he said in his video, please correct me if wrong).

I also wonder what the deca dick potential is with that kind of tiny dose, and if these doses give the other touted benefits of nandrolone.