Low E2 and not sure why

[SS1LE]

So I have been on TRT for awhile over 10 years. Of course like most had to find a good protocol. Well for me that was 14mg daily of Test E. My TT was always 600-800 and FT was always over range. My estradiol would be in the 40s on the standard test and Ultrasensative test. All over the course of the last 6 months, I have gotten fatigued, irritable, ED issues, Libido issues, retain water, muscle\joint soreness but also my bp has dropped which is odd because I take losartan for it because I have always had higher BP (would run 120s/80s, but now is like 100s/60s)
Well I usually don't get my e2 test because it's always in the 40's, but this time I decided to and it came back as basically undetectable on the standard test and 9 on the ultrasensative. So my issue is low E2 evidently, why I don't know. I take losartan, tamsulosin, and 5mg Cialis daily. For supplements I take Niagen, Vitamins k2 MK7, Vitamin C, DHEA, and Kyolic. None should lower E2 to that level, in fact the DHEA should increase my E2. What Are my options? I don't Respond well to HCG so Im not sure about that.
Calling @Cataceous @madman @FunkOdyssey @Nelson Vergel

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Checked and found this interesting info:

Based on the search results, here are the key points about the effects of garlic extract on estradiol:

1. Some studies have found that garlic extract can affect estrogen levels, though the effects seem to vary:

- One study found that garlic extract decreased estrogen levels in rats exposed to cell phone radiation[1][2].

- Another study reported that garlic extract stimulated secretion of gonadotropins and ovarian hormones, potentially increasing estrogen[3].

2. Garlic contains phytoestrogens, which can have a direct influence on estrogen levels[5].

3. In a study on polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) in mice, treatment with a garlic fraction (R10) helped modulate elevated estradiol levels associated with PCOS[6].

4. Some research suggests garlic may affect estrogen metabolism and stimulate secretion of gonadotropins and ovarian hormones[6].

5. The effects of garlic on estrogen appear to be complex and may depend on factors like the specific garlic preparation used, dosage, and physiological context.

6. Garlic extract has shown some ability to inhibit growth of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells, though this may be through mechanisms other than directly affecting estradiol levels[8].

7. Overall, garlic seems to have some modulatory effects on estrogen and other reproductive hormones, but more research is needed to fully understand the mechanisms and implications. The effects may vary based on the specific garlic preparation and physiological conditions.

Citations:
[1] Therapeutic effects of garlic (Allium sativum) on female reproductive system: A systematic review
[2] Effects of Garlic (Allium sativum L.) Hydroalcoholic Extract on Estrogen, Progesterone and Testosterone Levels in Rats Exposed to Cell Phone Radiation
[3] https://applications.emro.who.int/i...ci/Zahedan_J_Res_Med_Sci_2014_16_12_19_24.pdf
[4] Effects of Garlic [allium sativum L.] hydroalcoholic extract on estrogen, progesterone and testosterone levels in rats exposed to cell phone radiation | Zahedan Journal of Research in Medical Sciences. 2014; 16 (12): 19-24 | IMEMR
[5] Frontiers | Medicinal and therapeutic properties of garlic, garlic essential oil, and garlic-based snack food: An updated review
[6] Modulatory effects of R10 fraction of garlic (Allium sativum L.) on hormonal levels, T cell polarization, and fertility-related genes in mice model of polycystic ovarian syndrome
[7] https://ijwhr.net/pdf/pdf_IJWHR_12.pdf
[8] Aged black garlic extract inhibits the growth of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells by downregulating MCL-1 expression through the ROS-JNK pathway

 

[Systemlord]

So my issue is low E2 evidently, why I don't know. I take losartan, tamsulosin, and 5mg Cialis daily.

Cialis, for some men can inhibit aromatase activity. Cialis for me worked great at first, but as time went on, I had to stop due to crashed estrogen levels.

Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study - PubMed

Sustained improvement in sexual function after 12 months of tadalafil administration is associated with increased T:E ratio mainly related to reduction of E levels. We hypothesize that androgen-estrogen cross-talk and possible inhibition of aromatase activity during chronic exposure to tadalafil...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conclusions: Sustained improvement in sexual function after 12 months of tadalafil administration is associated with increased T:E ratio mainly related to reduction of E levels. We hypothesize that androgen-estrogen cross-talk and possible inhibition of aromatase activity during chronic exposure to tadalafil might have a role in the regulation of erectile function.

 

[SS1LE]

Checked and found this interesting info:

Based on the search results, here are the key points about the effects of garlic extract on estradiol:

1. Some studies have found that garlic extract can affect estrogen levels, though the effects seem to vary:

- One study found that garlic extract decreased estrogen levels in rats exposed to cell phone radiation[1][2].

- Another study reported that garlic extract stimulated secretion of gonadotropins and ovarian hormones, potentially increasing estrogen[3].

2. Garlic contains phytoestrogens, which can have a direct influence on estrogen levels[5].

3. In a study on polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) in mice, treatment with a garlic fraction (R10) helped modulate elevated estradiol levels associated with PCOS[6].

4. Some research suggests garlic may affect estrogen metabolism and stimulate secretion of gonadotropins and ovarian hormones[6].

5. The effects of garlic on estrogen appear to be complex and may depend on factors like the specific garlic preparation used, dosage, and physiological context.

6. Garlic extract has shown some ability to inhibit growth of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells, though this may be through mechanisms other than directly affecting estradiol levels[8].

7. Overall, garlic seems to have some modulatory effects on estrogen and other reproductive hormones, but more research is needed to fully understand the mechanisms and implications. The effects may vary based on the specific garlic preparation and physiological conditions.

Citations:
[1] Therapeutic effects of garlic (Allium sativum) on female reproductive system: A systematic review
[2] Effects of Garlic (Allium sativum L.) Hydroalcoholic Extract on Estrogen, Progesterone and Testosterone Levels in Rats Exposed to Cell Phone Radiation
[3] https://applications.emro.who.int/i...ci/Zahedan_J_Res_Med_Sci_2014_16_12_19_24.pdf
[4] Effects of Garlic [allium sativum L.] hydroalcoholic extract on estrogen, progesterone and testosterone levels in rats exposed to cell phone radiation | Zahedan Journal of Research in Medical Sciences. 2014; 16 (12): 19-24 | IMEMR
[5] Frontiers | Medicinal and therapeutic properties of garlic, garlic essential oil, and garlic-based snack food: An updated review
[6] Modulatory effects of R10 fraction of garlic (Allium sativum L.) on hormonal levels, T cell polarization, and fertility-related genes in mice model of polycystic ovarian syndrome
[7] https://ijwhr.net/pdf/pdf_IJWHR_12.pdf
[8] Aged black garlic extract inhibits the growth of estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells by downregulating MCL-1 expression through the ROS-JNK pathway

Could be, I can stop taking as a trial, but man I have been taking Kyolic for 8-10 years I would say.

 

[SS1LE]

The only solution is to stop Cialis. I had the same problem, insane hot flashes, and I had to stop it.

Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study - PubMed

Sustained improvement in sexual function after 12 months of tadalafil administration is associated with increased T:E ratio mainly related to reduction of E levels. We hypothesize that androgen-estrogen cross-talk and possible inhibition of aromatase activity during chronic exposure to tadalafil...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Willing to try but I have been on daily Cialis since TRT as well.

 

[Systemlord]

Willing to try but I have been on daily Cialis since TRT as well.

You should recover E2 levels within a week or two.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I concur with the others - try stopping tadalafil and garlic, retest in a month.

You aren't suspecting tadalafil because it didn't crash your estrogen in the beginning, however, things can change over time. It seems the aging process renders us increasingly susceptible to adverse effects from medications.

 

[Seagal]

So I have been on TRT for awhile over 10 years. Of course like most had to find a good protocol. Well for me that was 14mg daily of Test E. My TT was always 600-800 and FT was always over range. My estradiol would be in the 40s on the standard test and Ultrasensative test. All over the course of the last 6 months, I have gotten fatigued, irritable, ED issues, Libido issues, retain water, muscle\joint soreness but also my bp has dropped which is odd because I take losartan for it because I have always had higher BP (would run 120s/80s, but now is like 100s/60s)
Well I usually don't get my e2 test because it's always in the 40's, but this time I decided to and it came back as basically undetectable on the standard test and 9 on the ultrasensative. So my issue is low E2 evidently, why I don't know. I take losartan, tamsulosin, and 5mg Cialis daily. For supplements I take Niagen, Vitamins k2 MK7, Vitamin C, DHEA, and Kyolic. None should lower E2 to that level, in fact the DHEA should increase my E2. What Are my options? I don't Respond well to HCG so Im not sure about that.
Calling @Cataceous @madman @FunkOdyssey @Nelson Vergel

Another opinion: For now I would reduce or stop losartan, your bp is (too) low. Do regularly check your bp.
Is this drug combination (losartan, tamsulosin, and Cialis) prescribed by a physician?

 

[SS1LE]

Another opinion: For now I would reduce or stop losartan, your bp is (too) low. Do regularly check your bp.
Is this drug combination (losartan, tamsulosin, and Cialis) prescribed by a physician?

Yes, it is. With out the losartan BP will be 140s/90 even with the tadalafil/tamsulosin. I wonder if the low E2 is causing the low BP currently

 

[Seagal]

Really, if you now skip/reduce the losartan your bp goes up 40 points?
I'm curious, what's then his opinion on your current symptomatic?

 

[Seagal]

Yes, it is. With out the losartan BP will be 140s/90 even with the tadalafil/tamsulosin.

I wonder if the low E2 is causing the low BP currently

Hey, no question your E2 Lab values are so strange, I'm tempted to retest it. Just my opinion.

 

[SS1LE]

Hey, no question your E2 Lab values are so strange, I'm tempted to retest it. Just my opinion.

Yes my BP goes up after about 36 hr after the last losartan dose . Also since the standard test was undetectable, I requested the ultra sensitive which was done 8 days after the standard test. So I’m guessing this all has to be from low E2. Also starting to get depressed which I’m guessing is from the low e2. I’m going to stop the kyolic and tadalafil, would think I would see an improvement in a week or two if it is one of them. My biggest concern is it stays low. This has been no fun at all. I thought I read somewhere that @Cataceous had a similar issue with low E2.

 

[Systemlord]

Yes my BP goes up after about 36 hr after the last losartan dose .

Maybe you needed losartan due to Cialis lowering estrogen which would increase blood pressure.

 

[Seagal]

Yes my BP goes up after about 36 hr after the last losartan dose . Also since the standard test was undetectable, I requested the ultra sensitive which was done 8 days after the standard test.

I see that's basically a double check.

So I’m guessing this all has to be from low E2. Also starting to get depressed which I’m guessing is from the low e2.

I’m going to stop the kyolic and tadalafil, would think I would see an improvement in a week or two if it is one of them.

That seems to be the most reasonable first aid approach.

My biggest concern is it stays low.

So strange that this happened 'suddenly'. I would connect with my physician. Easier to communicate and explore issues, and do some basic physical examination. The tadalafil certainly van lower E2, but a drop from 40 to 9 is suspicious, the combination with the super garlic potentially. Skipping both should also bring up your BP.
Lol that will start a new kyolic hype...

This has been no fun at all. I thought I read somewhere that @Cataceous had a similar issue with low E2.

 

[Systemlord]

The tadalafil certainly van lower E2, but a drop from 40 to 9 is suspicious, the combination with the super garlic potentially.

Half way through my taper off 5 mg Cialis (2.5 mg) I was at E2 @16 pg/mL, I was probably at close to 9 E2 level. I know my estrogen was higher than 40 given my levels and past history with high E2 on TRT.

Now that I'm off TRT I'm probably in the upper teens to low 20's.

 

[Gman86]

I would get your testosterone level checked as well. If this is actually where ur E2 sits, and not a lab error, my guess is that ur testosterone levels are very low as well. Obv hard to believe since ur injecting it exogenously, but u never know. Just can’t see anything ur taking all of a sudden dropping ur E2 levels from 40’s to basically undetectable

 

[SS1LE]

I would get your testosterone level checked as well. If this is actually where ur E2 sits, and not a lab error, my guess is that ur testosterone levels are very low as well. Obv hard to believe since ur injecting it exogenously, but u never know. Just can’t see anything ur taking all of a sudden dropping ur E2 levels from 40’s to basically undetectable

They Were tested

 

[SS1LE]

Not sure but it almost has to be the E2 causing me to feel the way I feel. I did some more searching and it seems that others have issues where they get stuck with low E2 for some reason and actually have to supplement with Estradiol. I stopped tadaiafil and Kyolic , but If that does not help , I know I will have to do something, I feel like garbage. I don't think it is a lab error of the E2 because I had the regular test and after that came back undetectable, I had the ultra sensitive over a week later that came back at 9

 

[Gman86]

They Were tested

Good job checking these too. So that rules that out as a cause

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I did some more searching and it seems that others have issues where they get stuck with low E2 for some reason and actually have to supplement with Estradiol.

This wouldn't be a big deal if it turns out to be the case. You can get estradiol more easily than testosterone as it is not a controlled substance.